Should I Increase?
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Balance_Moderation
Posts: 59 Member
Ok so I have a question... I did really good at breaking the looooooong plateau that I had by upping my calories to 2360 but I seem to have stalled out again. Should I up my calories? It was recommended that I should be using Scooby calculator and logging my stuff as 7-21 hours of strenuous. I am starting to wonder if that is right. So, I have tracked my activity today and I am realizing how little I really sit on average. Most of my stuff has me up and moving around during the day. I guess on any given day I keep pretty busy.
Here are my stats -- I am currently 170 pounds and am 5'7".
For exercise I am doing the PiYo program 5 to 6 days a week and most of my days are spent chasing after 4 kids, one of which is a busy toddler.
Previously, I was eating at 2360 and that was using the same numbers but 5 to 6 hours of moderate activity.
Scooby says that if I log it under 7 to 21 hours my TDEE is 2880 and my 10% deficit is 2599.
I used Heybales tracker and it also said that my TDEE was higher than I originally thought.
What do you guys think? Is that too much? Should I increase or keep where I am at and see how things are when Aunt Flo leaves? I am not sure what to do. The numbers seem so high....
Here are my stats -- I am currently 170 pounds and am 5'7".
For exercise I am doing the PiYo program 5 to 6 days a week and most of my days are spent chasing after 4 kids, one of which is a busy toddler.
Previously, I was eating at 2360 and that was using the same numbers but 5 to 6 hours of moderate activity.
Scooby says that if I log it under 7 to 21 hours my TDEE is 2880 and my 10% deficit is 2599.
I used Heybales tracker and it also said that my TDEE was higher than I originally thought.
What do you guys think? Is that too much? Should I increase or keep where I am at and see how things are when Aunt Flo leaves? I am not sure what to do. The numbers seem so high....
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Replies
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I think you already know the answer… haha. You're just scared to up them more
My TDEE was 2,850 before my activity level dropped. I am the same height & 20lbs lighter. I think your TDEE could be even higher. You you will never truly know until you keep upping them and upping them until you slowly start to gain.
250 over calories a day over your TDEE would cause a 1lb gain of weight in 14 days.0 -
I guess what I get confused of is if I am maintaining wouldn't that signify that I am eating at my TDEE? Eating above TDEE equals weight gain and eating below TDEE equals weight loss -- correct? So if I am maintaining at 2360 wouldn't that mean I should drop? I get so confused so easily over this that at times I wish I hadn't started tracking. It gets so damn frustrating trying to figure the numbers out.
Sigh. Maybe you guys can shed a scienc-y answer on this..... 0 -
No, not really.
I maintained at 1200. Then I upped.
I maintained at 1500. Then I upped.
I maintained at 1900. Then I upped.
I maintained at 2100. Then I upped.
I maintained at 2400. Then I upped.
I maintained at 2800. Then I upped.
I started gaining at 3000. Then I went back down to 2850.
There is no way to no your true TDEE until you actually go over it and start gaining. If your metabolism is suppressed, which it probably is, you can maintain as you increase. If your metabolism starts speeding up as you up calories, you won't gain, you'll maintain. Sometimes people end up gaining if they up too fast, because their metabolism is still slowed, but that didn't happen to me. I upped and upped and upped. Once I was around 2800-3000 I played around a lot inside of those numbers and ended up gaining about 3lbs of fat (spring break with sloppy logging and changing activity levels without changing TDEE). I think my start weight was approximately 147lbs and I ended at 150lbs and that's where I still am now.
Once you get to your true TDEE and hang out there awhile, then you do a cut, and do a smaller one. A lot of people up to a cut value, but this has never made sense to me. If we are trying to get our metabolism to recover, upping to a cut value just doesn't make sense to me. The 10% cut value is on a fully healed metabolism I is how I have always understood it. A lot of people do it though, and they see an initial loss but then the loss doesn't continue.
Does that help at all? I know you and I are similarly confounded by the numbers
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Above is perfect example of the logic of the fact that the level you are eating at with no weight change does not mean it's true potential TDEE.
And in your own case you prove it out too.
What level did you eat at with that looooong plateau prior to eating 2360 goal?0 -
I was eating at roughly 1800 to 2100. I guess this is what I get confused on -- if I am maintaining wouldn't that mean that I am eating at TDEE? To lose I would need to decrease a bit? I get so confused by this...0
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Above is perfect example of the logic of the fact that the level you are eating at with no weight change does not mean it's true potential TDEE.
And in your own case you prove it out too.
What level did you eat at with that looooong plateau prior to eating 2360 goal?
My brain is not working this morning. Sorry I didn't really answer your question fully -- I wasn't tracking until January this year. I was journaling but not tracking. I don't know I guess maybe I was eating roughly about 2300 calories? I dropped them when I started tracking and was eating about 1800 to 2100 calories when I started tracking in MFP earlier this year, then I bumped them up to 2360 and had a woosh that lasted a few weeks. Aunt Flo came and I gained my typical water weight and I went back up to 170 (which was the weight I maintained for a year and a half) and I seem to be remaining at that weight. I haven't checked my measurements in awhile so I am not sure where things are now.
In all honesty, should I work to up them a bit? Maybe do 100 more and see where I go there? What is the best way to up them and how long do I stay at that number before I decide to stay, continue to up then or go down?
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MandaLeigh123 wrote: »No, not really.
I maintained at 1200. Then I upped.
I maintained at 1500. Then I upped.
I maintained at 1900. Then I upped.
I maintained at 2100. Then I upped.
I maintained at 2400. Then I upped.
I maintained at 2800. Then I upped.
I started gaining at 3000. Then I went back down to 2850.
There is no way to no your true TDEE until you actually go over it and start gaining. If your metabolism is suppressed, which it probably is, you can maintain as you increase. If your metabolism starts speeding up as you up calories, you won't gain, you'll maintain. Sometimes people end up gaining if they up too fast, because their metabolism is still slowed, but that didn't happen to me. I upped and upped and upped. Once I was around 2800-3000 I played around a lot inside of those numbers and ended up gaining about 3lbs of fat (spring break with sloppy logging and changing activity levels without changing TDEE). I think my start weight was approximately 147lbs and I ended at 150lbs and that's where I still am now.
Once you get to your true TDEE and hang out there awhile, then you do a cut, and do a smaller one. A lot of people up to a cut value, but this has never made sense to me. If we are trying to get our metabolism to recover, upping to a cut value just doesn't make sense to me. The 10% cut value is on a fully healed metabolism I is how I have always understood it. A lot of people do it though, and they see an initial loss but then the loss doesn't continue.
Does that help at all? I know you and I are similarly confounded by the numbers
Hi MandaLeigh123 how long did you stay at each before you upped your calories again?0 -
I moved up fast. Multiple increments in a week, which isn't the recommended way but worked for me. I knew my TDEE was really behind where it needed to be, so upped as quickly as I could. This came with some drawbacks, like feeling overly stuff all the time and whining about how this is "too much food" and "I can't eat it all" and "I don't ever feel hungry" and "how do I eat some many calories?!" The 1200-1500 jump was right before I found EM2WL 1500-3000 range all happened over about 4 weeks if I remember right. March 6- April 2 I upped to 2800 then spend the next 10 days around 3000, or 3000+ and that when I slowly started to gain. Got a bit sloppy on logging and had spring break but then went back down to 2850 and stayed there for a couple of months until recently, my activity level has gone way down so my TDEE is down as well.
If I had only increased 100 calories a week, it would have taken 15 weeks to get to 3000. This way is recommended to give your metabolism a chance to speed up, and give your mind and relationship with food a chance to heal as you increase. For me though, I knew myself and knew I wouldn't have stuck with it if took that long to increase so I upped as much as I could, as quickly as I could
BalanceModeration: If your metabolism is suppressed, you will maintain at suppressed TDEE. So if you broke a plateau, by increasing, you have proven that your metabolism was indeed suppressed. By how much though? You won't know until you keep upping. Nobody really gives a good answer for how long you should stay at the upped level, unless you are doing a full metabolism reset which is 8-12 weeks. If you were eating at a calorie deficit from January- April, it's a good idea to give your body a rest from caloric restriction and eat at TDEE for a little while.
You you will never truly know until you keep upping them and upping them until you slowly start to gain.
250 over calories a day over your TDEE would cause a 1lb gain of weight in 14 days. When I told heybales I was going to go up by 100 and stay there to see if I gained, he pointed out that to gain 1 pound of real fat it would take over a month, so not a quick or easy way to determine TDEE.
How accurate is your logging with that too? 100 calories over.... are your food measurements spot on? Is your calorie burn an exact measurement? Probably not... I know mine isn't anyway. 100 calories sounds like an average margin of error.
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MandaLeigh123 wrote: »I moved up fast. Multiple increments in a week, which isn't the recommended way but worked for me. I knew my TDEE was really behind where it needed to be, so upped as quickly as I could. This came with some drawbacks, like feeling overly stuff all the time and whining about how this is "too much food" and "I can't eat it all" and "I don't ever feel hungry" and "how do I eat some many calories?!" The 1200-1500 jump was right before I found EM2WL 1500-3000 range all happened over about 4 weeks if I remember right. March 6- April 2 I upped to 2800 then spend the next 10 days around 3000, or 3000+ and that when I slowly started to gain. Got a bit sloppy on logging and had spring break but then went back down to 2850 and stayed there for a couple of months until recently, my activity level has gone way down so my TDEE is down as well.
If I had only increased 100 calories a week, it would have taken 15 weeks to get to 3000. This way is recommended to give your metabolism a chance to speed up, and give your mind and relationship with food a chance to heal as you increase. For me though, I knew myself and knew I wouldn't have stuck with it if took that long to increase so I upped as much as I could, as quickly as I could
BalanceModeration: If your metabolism is suppressed, you will maintain at suppressed TDEE. So if you broke a plateau, by increasing, you have proven that your metabolism was indeed suppressed. By how much though? You won't know until you keep upping. Nobody really gives a good answer for how long you should stay at the upped level, unless you are doing a full metabolism reset which is 8-12 weeks. If you were eating at a calorie deficit from January- April, it's a good idea to give your body a rest from caloric restriction and eat at TDEE for a little while.
You you will never truly know until you keep upping them and upping them until you slowly start to gain.
250 over calories a day over your TDEE would cause a 1lb gain of weight in 14 days. When I told heybales I was going to go up by 100 and stay there to see if I gained, he pointed out that to gain 1 pound of real fat it would take over a month, so not a quick or easy way to determine TDEE.
How accurate is your logging with that too? 100 calories over.... are your food measurements spot on? Is your calorie burn an exact measurement? Probably not... I know mine isn't anyway. 100 calories sounds like an average margin of error.
Oh there is no way I am 100% in my tracking. Since working to eat MORE though, I know I am a whole lot more consistent with my tracking than I used to be. Ok so that makes sense, I never really thought about it that way (the suppressed thing). It makes sense. So I guess then, maybe upping them by 100 cal each week for awhile? What you're sayign totally makes sense to me now. It takes my head awhile to catch up with this. I am still lost in the "eat less" mindset at times, you know?
So I guess the question would be then, How in the heck do I really figure my TDEE? I guess like you said, just keep upping them and wait. It seems like a whole patience game which is something I am not really good at you know? LOL. Does anyone have a good idea on how to figure the TDEE?
Thank you guys so much for your help!!
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You have to keep upping until you slowly start gaining I posted an article to your page from the EM2WL group. It takes time and patience and trial and error. Just up and up and up, and when you see a slow trend of fat gain, not water, then you know you are slightly over TDEE and you go back down. You could use the scooby calculator 7-21 as a goal at first, and if you are brave, your TDEE could be even higher than that, which mine was.
Then when you finally get your TRUE TDEE figured out, hang out there for awhile, 8-12 weeks for that full reset and if not that long, at least a couple of weeks. THEN, you do the 10-15% cut.
I actually haven't cut yet. I've been at maintenance calories since Mid-March. I kept intending to cut, as I have a bit of fat left to loose (not much) but it just hasn't happened yet and now I don't know if I need/want to.
I think you're doing great trying to get it figure it out!0 -
Thank you, girl. I read (and quickly bookmarked) that article. It was perfect! Exactly what I was wanting!! I really appreciate your help. This has been quite eye opening. I will keep you guys posted. I am going to up them 100 calories and do that each week for awhile. I am going to get this!! I will do it!0
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Do it! Do it! Haha I think it's great taking your time and making sure you understand why you are doing it. It's much easier to stick with it, if you understand why you are doing it. Just remember that extra calories = extra carbs = a little extra water that comes with them so keep that in mind. Look for increase in fat, not just a little extra water weight as you increase. 0
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What do you look for with that? I mean, seriously? Really the only indicator I have is a scale and we alllll know how truly unreliable of a source that is. What do you use as your indicator?0
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The way this one pair of tight pants I have fits. They barely fit and look good. If I gain actual fat, they would get too small within about 1 pound increase from now I think. Other people use measurements, but I'm pretty bad at taking them in the exact same spot every time. I carry most of my weight in my hips and bum so this pants method has worked well for me. When I was at 147lbs they fit a bit better. Now at 150lbs, I know I am on the verge of them not fitting. It's also a super quick way to do it. Just slide them on and feel how they fit.0
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That makes sense. Thank you!! 0
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The scale and usually a waist measurement at belly button are the only good indicators if eating above true potential TDEE and gaining fat.
And sadly if lifting, the waist part may be slow to show the fact. But usually for most, the waist gets the fat first. Sadly it also gets bloated first.
But it also balances out the scale for when glucose stores with water are topped off - that doesn't show on waist, just scale.
The most accurate way to get TDEE is also the least useful.
It's to log what you eat before you start a diet or change activity, and at the eating level that had you maintaining.
But now with most wanting to improve body beyond just weight loss - exercise starts - so that number is useless, except showing you what you used to eat to maintain doing even less activity.
I've had a few take my suggestion to go backlog some typical eating days with things they could get decently accurate with - and blow their minds how much they used to eat. At least compared to the 1200 they started with. Which in many cases was indeed a 50% or bigger deficit.
Moving up semi-fast after a couple weeks of 100 cal increases daily (which tops off glucose stores and increases LBM and metabolism) is best.
Then a couple weeks at potential TDEE, or until no weight changes.
Then that 2-week 250 test hopefully during good time of month for women. Pick 2 weeks wisely. No changes to exercise or daily life routine.
Also valid weigh-ins needed to minimize expected water weight fluctuations, to give better meaning to weight changes.
That's about as close as you get. But then TDEE changes when seasons change (was that a Bangel's song?) so must be ready to adjust if it starts to appear how much TDEE has changed.
No, it's not a method for the impatient, as you will be fine tuning it all the time, probably at least 2 x yearly between winter and summer activity differences. Let alone life and exercise changes.0 -
So then it is best to up 100 calories a day and then up to 250 a day until I reach TDEE? When I *think* I've reached my TDEE then 2 weeks? At that point do I start working on my cut then? I definitely carry the bloat in my tummy. So frustrating. Sigh. Okay so I figured my TDEE at 2888 so I will work up to that and see. I am going to give this an honest try and see how it goes.
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Just to confirm, it's an increase of 100 to eating goal for a week at a time.
About 2-3 weeks of that slow increase method.
Then go for 250 increase for a week at a time until you reach estimated potential TDEE.
Couple weeks there with no gain or loss.
Then do 2 week 250 more test.
Bloat is just body getting used to eating more. And possibly stress hormones.
If you do stiff drinks, have one the first night of the day you make an increase.
Increased carbs and hard liquor have been shown to cause whoosh effect of water weight drop, if related to body being stressed.0 -
@heybales always great info, thank you! I love reading these posts and updates....I'm getting gutsier to try and increase as well. I've moved from 1400 to almost 1800 calories per day...thinking about adding more soon too. Will start my own post if I have questions. Thanks again!!0
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Just to confirm, it's an increase of 100 to eating goal for a week at a time.
About 2-3 weeks of that slow increase method.
Then go for 250 increase for a week at a time until you reach estimated potential TDEE.
Couple weeks there with no gain or loss.
Then do 2 week 250 more test.
Bloat is just body getting used to eating more. And possibly stress hormones.
If you do stiff drinks, have one the first night of the day you make an increase.
Increased carbs and hard liquor have been shown to cause whoosh effect of water weight drop, if related to body being stressed.
So I should take a shot to get rid of some of this water? Here I've been drinking gallons of water all day, that sounds more enjoyable!0
