lifting while on a cut, newbie gains, what gives?

Tipularia
Tipularia Posts: 19 Member
edited November 2024 in Social Groups
All the source material I have read (and there's A LOT) agrees you can't gain muscle while eating at a deficit......except in very special circumstances that include the use of steroids AND when significantly overfat people begin to lift (ie. newbie gains). However, that small phrase is all you get. No explanation for why, how long this lasts, etc.

1. So, are they talking real body recomposition? Essentially losing fat and gaining muscle at a similar pace?
2. Is this a real thing and, if so, how long can it last?
3. Does this explain the common statement that "I'm exactly the same weight but losing inches and looking slimmer"?

Since starting my cut I've definitely lost inches and look smaller. I've also lost pounds at about the rate I should, given my calculations (9.8 lbs in two month). Which, frankly, startled the heck out of me when I actually added it up. Of course, I can't know how much of this was due to water weight or loss there of, but I'm not going to obsess over that in this query.

What I really want to know is, am I gaining ANY muscle with all the hard work I'm doing (lifts are still going up) or am I just working to hang on to what I have. Either is fine, but it would be nice to confirm.

Thanks!

Replies

  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    1 - It won't be at similar pace if in a deficit - you'll lose more fat than muscle you gain, so weight does drop because of being in a deficit. But yes, that's what is happening. Same way your body still replaces skin while in a deficit - which means it's building new skin basically, or hair. Both of which can have problems if you undereat too much.

    2 - Yes real. Depends on how long it takes to tap out your existing muscles for everything they got, and then however long you got to 9-12 months lifting that would be the beginner stage.
    It's along the same lines that someone at maintenance or even surplus will gain muscle faster as beginner - body is just ready to grow, and easier to overload.
    Past that first level - both those are harder to accomplish, no matter where you are eating - but especially in a deficit.

    3 - First improvement from exercise is water weight gain for many reasons, and that is fast. Muscle is slow. For a woman eating in surplus doing progressive lifting - 1 lb every 4 weeks.
    You can lose fat much faster than that.
    It's popular phrase to throw out that has no bearing in reality.

    First week or two included water weight, so knock those off, then look at rate of loss.

    You can increase strength without new muscle. Form improves. And you start engaging the whole muscle totally, Central Nervous System improvement (CNS).
    Once those 2 things happen, and you keep overloading - now the body needs to add more during the repair.

    Soreness eventually goes away, but it's a good indicator near the start. You damaged muscle fibers, they repair stronger if diet allows, more if needed. You are sore the next 24-36 hrs.
    Later the soreness may go away, but the time is still about the same if you overloaded.
  • Tipularia
    Tipularia Posts: 19 Member
    Thanks heybales!

    I should explain that I've been lifting heavy since early March. Did a six week reset mid-April - mid-May, when I finally got to maintenance calories, so I'm pretty sure I built some muscle during that time.

    I change my routine up often and I stay pretty sore.....like almost all the time. LOL! So I know I'm affecting change. However, I've been wondering how long the gains (ability and muscle) will last before I'm just maintaining muscle.

    And, I'm also (have to admit it) wondering if I've actually lost more fat, but the loss is being masked by muscle gains. Hey, a girl can dream.......

  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    So very much a newbie. Maybe 1 lb every 6 weeks if that.
    Again, size and strength doesn't mean you built new muscle. Size is increased glucose stores with water, and less fat on top showing it off, strength means better form and CNS engagement if you do it often enough. But ....

    Are you totally switching up workouts, or merely what the lifts are?

    If lifts or rep ranges - that means some of your time is spent trying to find the right weight for the reps, and you can get sore from different rep ranges. It also means for the weeks trying to find the right weight - you really aren't overloading. And then you are spending time using your whole muscle by getting form and CNS down again.

    If you aren't doing anything long enough to keep overloading it and making progress - you aren't building as much as you could.

    Getting sore because of changing routine and working out new support muscles isn't the same as progressive overload requiring new muscle.

    Are you switching up routines based on the mistaken myth you must "confuse" your body to keep seeing progress?

    How long they last is totally up to you. When you can do the rep and sets and not have any difficulty - you are maintenance lifting.
    And at that point you could actually do about 1/3 the duration and 1/3 the frequency that got you to that weight - but you'd have to keep the weight on the bar. But that would be maintenance lifting then, like if time got busy, other workout desires, ect.

    1 extra pound fat loss masked by 1 lb muscle gain in 6 weeks isn't much, that's almost water weight fluctuations - but it could happen.

    And I'm estimating 1 in 6 - because normally for newbie woman eating in surplus it's 1 in 4, at maintenance it's going to be slower by decent amount.
  • Tipularia
    Tipularia Posts: 19 Member
    Good question!

    I'm doing pretty similar weight lifting workouts, but play around with the "smaller" exercises. I alternate an A and a B workout. They each focus on compound lifts with a mix of leg, back, arms and shoulders. Pretty much:

    A Workout
    Barbell back squats (170 lbs currently)
    Incline barbell press (75 lbs currently)
    Woodchops of some variety on cable machine
    Seated row on cable machine


    B Workout
    Deadlifts (130 lbs currently)
    Incline dumb bell press
    wide lat pull down or underhand pull down

    Then I round each of the workouts out with 3 circuits of 4-5 upper and lower body exercises that include various kinds of squats, kettlebell and dumb bell work, crunches, good mornings, back extensions and some plyo stuff like jump squats. This is where I play around with different exercises, but I try to keep the same number of types of exercises.

    Most lifts I do 3 reps of 8 but will go up to 12 reps when doing circuits if I feel its reasonable. I try to increase lift weights by at least 5lbs each time I lift (especially with the barbell work), however I'm currently stuck on 30 lb dumb bells for most of my presses but am at 35 with rows.

    Sound reasonable?

    Thanks for the info and confirmation. It helps to "keep it real".
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