if slow and steady increases speed....how long until you see an improvement?

mkakids
mkakids Posts: 1,913 Member
edited November 22 in Social Groups
I've been running for a couple years, but not consistently. I've run a few 5ks and have my first half scheduled at the end of November. My easy, conversational pace is around a 13 minute mile. The fastest I have ever run 5k is in 30 minutes, and I definitely could not talk at that pace. I have been following a half training plan for about 5 weeks now.....3 slow and steady runs and 1 short, faster run.

Just wondering what kind of improvement I can hope to see over the next 15 weeks. Any tips? I would love to be able to run an 11 minute mile for the half, but I'm not sure if its reasonable or not to have that as my goal.

Replies

  • jchite84
    jchite84 Posts: 467 Member
    My experience has been the following: LSD running definitely leads to speed improvement, but it is a slow steady improvement. I'm inclined to think that if your fastest 5K was 30 minutes and it was taxing then an 11 min pace for the half might be aggressive this round, but definitely possible for your second, but you've also got plenty of time to build up and it depends a lot on the terrain and environment. Hotter = slower, hills = slower. I would think about taking one of your slow/steady runs and mix it up a little. Do some speed work in the middle (fartleks) or try the first half at an easy pace and then try for conservative negative splits for the last miles. Though, I wouldn't try this on your longest long run of the week. The other thing that lead to big improvements for me was running with people. You chat and laugh, they run faster than you and you keep up and don't notice the struggle as badly.

    When I run a half I break the run into segments, basically a slow easy start then building speed towards the end. The limiting factor being when I start building speed. My first one my goal was to keep enough gas in the tank that when I hit the 9 mile mark I could start to push harder. My second half I moved that back to the 6 mile mark. Subsequent races I've used that model. Easy 7 plus a 10K.
  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
    You can incorporate some short strides into 2 of your slow steady runs each week.

    http://strengthrunning.com/2012/10/what-are-strides/

    You can do them towards the end of your run. On the last mile or mile and a half, start a stride (hold 20 seconds-30 seconds at the faster pace) then go back into your slower pace to recover and then repeat again like 3 more times. You can work it up to 6-8 total strides and work on a shorter recovery in between.
  • daj150
    daj150 Posts: 815 Member
    First, great job at working towards a half! I do not like most running plans out there, because they focus too much on quantity. 3 slow runs and 1 short but faster run means you will never see much of an improvement. You need to do interval and tempo work. I would recommend looking up Fartleks. Personally, I have zero slow and steady training days. If I am just training to get ready for a race, I run 3 times per week; interval, tempo, and long run. The goal of my intervals is to push myself to a speed that is significantly faster than my race for short distances, then repeat this...or I do pyramids or ladders. Or I just do Fartleks. For tempo, I am running at a pace to push my lactate threshold. For my long run, I am running at a comfortable pace that is slower than race pace, with a focus on form, breathing, and fueling. Now, with all of that said...most people who are runners like to run. So 3 days a week is torture, because they want to be out there running 7 days a week if they could. So, in that case, I will usually add a speed work day as well. This is usually longer distance repeats at a faster pace. For example, I might do a 6 mile run where I do a 3x1 mile repeats with half mile jog in-between, where I am going at about 10%-15% faster than race pace. With 15 weeks, if you even just add some speedwork, you could see some decent improvement. Good luck! And if you have Pinterest, there are always tons of free training plans being posted...find ones that have speed work and/or intervals in the training plan.
  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
    I wouldn't do intervals for her this early in her development. At least not the VO2max type. Tempo's yes. And if you mean 2 mile cruze intervals at tempo pace then that would be ok too. Fartleks or strides would be OK as well. She can even start off with 1 day of hill repeats. Or just incorporate hills into 1 or 2 of your midweek runs.

    @mkakids Basically what you want is 2 good quality workouts in each week plus your long run. In between you rest, cross train, or run at recovery pace. A quality workout could be a tempo run, cruze intervals, hill repeats or a hill day, fartleks.

    You will also want to work on core and hip strengthening in addition to your running.

    And work on good form:
    lift the heels with butt kicks, drive the knee forward while keeping the heel raised and get that wheel motion, land with a bent knee so foot is near the center of mass or just under your chest and head
    keeping a straight tall body and bend forward slightly at the ankles
    head tall looking forward ~100 feet, shoulders back and relaxed, arms loose and swinging like pendeloms at 90 degree bent at elbow, hands and arms never crossing the middle of your body
    work on your cadence (start with shorter choppy steps working towards 180 steps per second)
    then work on stride length while still landing safely near COM after you get comfortable with all the above.
  • snowflakesav
    snowflakesav Posts: 649 Member
    You can't pull speed up from the top by running faster.. Better to push it up from the bottom buy running more.
  • lporter229
    lporter229 Posts: 4,907 Member
    As mentioned in Matt Fitzgerald's '80/20 Running", one of the reasons that you develop speed over time with increased mileage is that your body will automatically adapt to a more efficient running form over time. As you can imagine, this is not an instantaneous process. You just need to be patient. Yes, speed work and tempo runs can help you in this area, but it is important to establish a solid aerobic base and good form before you head into that territory. Just give it time, it will happen. And as mentioned above, heat and humidity have a HUGE influence on speed. If you have been running in the summer weather, you will be pleasantly surprised by your speed increases in the fall.
  • _Waffle_
    _Waffle_ Posts: 13,049 Member
    Miles per week? That's the real question and answer.
  • mkakids
    mkakids Posts: 1,913 Member
    Thank you for your responses!

    Waffle - I am currently running around 16 miles per week. Nothing crazy. The plan I have been following has me running a 3 mile tempo run, a 3 mile easy run at a conversational pace and two 5 mile runs at a conversational pace.

    I will look into everything mentioned above...thanks again! I appreciate the feedback.
  • mkakids
    mkakids Posts: 1,913 Member
    jchite84 - the course is pretty flat. a few very minor hills, but nothing major.

  • _Waffle_
    _Waffle_ Posts: 13,049 Member
    mkakids wrote: »
    Thank you for your responses!

    Waffle - I am currently running around 16 miles per week. Nothing crazy. The plan I have been following has me running a 3 mile tempo run, a 3 mile easy run at a conversational pace and two 5 mile runs at a conversational pace.

    I will look into everything mentioned above...thanks again! I appreciate the feedback.

    Nothing crazy? Crazy is where good stuff happens. :smile: Seriously, adding more easy miles per week is where you'll see the biggest improvement in your running. Hopefully the plan will add on more miles and if so you'll notice an improvement by the time you get to the race. You still have quite a few good weeks of running so I'm sure you'll see an improvement.

    As mentioned above the current temps are probably slowing you down. Ignore that. Your times will come down naturally as it cools off.
  • mkakids
    mkakids Posts: 1,913 Member
    The plan does add more miles, but slowly....1 mile per run every 2 weeks. Its not really hot here when I run. I run early mornings (around 5:30/6am) and its usually 70 degrees out. Would you recommend increasing miles faster? How many do you think I should be running in my peak weak before the race (before tapering)? I definitely feel like I can handle more miles each week right now.
  • _Waffle_
    _Waffle_ Posts: 13,049 Member
    mkakids wrote: »
    The plan does add more miles, but slowly....1 mile per run every 2 weeks. Its not really hot here when I run. I run early mornings (around 5:30/6am) and its usually 70 degrees out. Would you recommend increasing miles faster? How many do you think I should be running in my peak weak before the race (before tapering)? I definitely feel like I can handle more miles each week right now.

    The general rule of thumb into uncharted territory is 10% per week. This is more like guidelines than actual rules. (Yes, Pirates of the Caribbean joke) If you're running 10 miles per week and add a couple miles that's fine. Just don't go from 10 to 20 miles in a week's time. Also add the miles on the end of an easy run. If your tempo run says 3 miles then leave it at that since speed work is it's own thing. You should have an easier week once every 3 - 4 weeks as well.

    Hopefully you're plan eventually gets you up to doing at least 30 miles per week with a long run of at least 10 miles (13 is better). If so then follow that. If not there's no harm in adding extra miles as long as you do it gradually.


    70 degrees isn't too bad but that's still warmer than I like. 45 - 50 degrees is perfect.
  • STrooper
    STrooper Posts: 659 Member
    edited August 2015
    Once you are running a fairly consistent schedule with a gradual ramp up, you'll likely see it on the shorter distances first with the longer distance becoming easier and gradually faster (though it really depends upon where your fitness level is when you start).

    Using a 1-mile test as a basis, I started out being able to run a mile in 11:40 (not exactly conversational but not huffing and puffing either). That was holding a steady heart rate of about 165-170 bpm. At a sub-maximal output, I could run that mile in about 9:45 and a higher heart rate. But I could not sustain that pace for the 5K distance.

    About 6 weeks after I first started running on a 26-week plan to marathon distance, I could run the 5K distance in 33:40 (10:50/mile) on a flat course (and I do mean flat). Sixteen weeks in, my 1-mile pace was down to ~8:15 and my 5K completion time was 28:03 (9:01/mile) on a not so flat course.

    You may see gradual progress or great breakthroughs in speed. Part of that comes with the buildup in mileage. Part comes from a moderate stressor to the running system with time for recovery. Finding the correct balance is the trick though the 80/20 approach seems to help quite a bit in the ratio of easy to hard runs.

    I haven't run a half marathon recently (won't until fall) and it'll be interesting to see how much speed I've picked up by that time. But I recently ran a 5K while on vacation and I didn't really run that hard because I knew in my age group I would just get toasted. Missed my PR by a mere 10 seconds (25:42) and it would have been interesting to see what I could have done had I really pushed myself. But I was recovering from sore hip flexors and took the longer view of enjoying the run and NOT hurting myself.

    Good luck and enjoy your training.
  • mkakids
    mkakids Posts: 1,913 Member
    _Waffle_ wrote: »
    mkakids wrote: »
    The plan does add more miles, but slowly....1 mile per run every 2 weeks. Its not really hot here when I run. I run early mornings (around 5:30/6am) and its usually 70 degrees out. Would you recommend increasing miles faster? How many do you think I should be running in my peak weak before the race (before tapering)? I definitely feel like I can handle more miles each week right now.

    The general rule of thumb into uncharted territory is 10% per week. This is more like guidelines than actual rules. (Yes, Pirates of the Caribbean joke) If you're running 10 miles per week and add a couple miles that's fine. Just don't go from 10 to 20 miles in a week's time. Also add the miles on the end of an easy run. If your tempo run says 3 miles then leave it at that since speed work is it's own thing. You should have an easier week once every 3 - 4 weeks as well.

    Hopefully you're plan eventually gets you up to doing at least 30 miles per week with a long run of at least 10 miles (13 is better). If so then follow that. If not there's no harm in adding extra miles as long as you do it gradually.


    70 degrees isn't too bad but that's still warmer than I like. 45 - 50 degrees is perfect.

    Thanks! I'm currently running about 15 miles a week, but definitely feel like I can do more. Yes, my training plan takes me to around 35 miles per week and up to 13 miles, prior to the half.

  • vcphil
    vcphil Posts: 79 Member
    I've been running for 5-6 years, and I would not see too much improvement in 15 weeks. I mean maybe 10 seconds per mile max. In the beginning, maybe closer to 30 seconds per mile. It's a long process
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