what things stall your or knock you out of Keto even if your net carbs are low? (malitol for me)
LadyNanci
Posts: 20 Member
I have been doing LC for about 6-7 weeks now. I was losing great the first 3 weeks doing Atkins Induction. (about 10 pd) Around the 4 week period I started using some of the Atkins bars and shakes. I also added in low carb tortillas (3g net carbs) a few times a week. Even at 20 or less net carbs a day my keto test strips were not turning dark purple but definetly a lighter purple. I hit a stop after the 4th or 5th week and saw a gain, then stayed the same, so basically I have been within a couple pounds of my 3 wk loss for the past 4 weeks. I was testing with strips daily and all of a sudden...out of Keto even though I track every bit and I was under 2 net carbs a day always. I am pretty sure it is anything with Malitol that will knock me out of Keto. I dont think the atkins shakes have Malitol ( I didn't see it on the label) but almost all their bars have it. I found just 1 or 2 that did not.
So...I wanted to know what anyone else finds stalls them or knocks them out of Keto even though they are staying in their net carbs.
I am totally unsure about the Macro thing. I have been trying to keep my calories between 1200-14oo per day and my carbs at net 30 or less. I am getting discouraged as I quit eating all the bars and stuff and I am still not back in keto after 4 days so I am thinking maybe those low carb Tortillas are not good for me either
So...I wanted to know what anyone else finds stalls them or knocks them out of Keto even though they are staying in their net carbs.
I am totally unsure about the Macro thing. I have been trying to keep my calories between 1200-14oo per day and my carbs at net 30 or less. I am getting discouraged as I quit eating all the bars and stuff and I am still not back in keto after 4 days so I am thinking maybe those low carb Tortillas are not good for me either
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I count total carbs with an eye on NET - but I only subtract fiber, not sugar alcohols. Those things mess me up.
I don't eat sugar free anything for the most part, unless it is naturally occurring. I try to only use Sweet Leaf Stevia because everything else spikes my blood insulin response.
That being said, it sounds like you started to become fat adapted, and then knocked yourself out of ketosis with those bars. I would go back to induction until you hit a good stride again, and count total carbs, not net.
Me personally, I tracked tightly for 6 weeks or so, but I didn't restrict calories, trying to determine my true hunger signals. As long as I track my carbs, I don't worry about the calories. I'm making my body teach me about hunger again. I had a slow period of several weeks, but now I'm back on the wagon, so to speak, but I had to ditch all the fake/substitute and complicated foods again. I had let too many sneak back in.
My opinion in general is that keeping this simple with whole foods is the optimum way to use Ketosis and a Ketogenic diet to gain health and hopefully lose weight along the way! YMMV0 -
I don't know because I don't test, but I do know there are certain foods that lead to stalls or gains because they lead to cravings. I'm not sure exactly which because I added in several things at the same time, but I'm thinking peanut butter, artificial sweeteners, and low carb grain products. *sigh* Back to basics for me.0
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If you're eating 30g carbs, you're in ketosis.
If your ketostix are light purple you're in ketosis.
If you're stalled, it has nothing to do with ketosis.
However, it could be related to malitol or other things that can cause water retention.0 -
If you're eating 30g carbs, you're in ketosis.
If your ketostix are light purple you're in ketosis.
If you're stalled, it has nothing to do with ketosis.
However, it could be related to malitol or other things that can cause water retention.
I would agree with the first statement if you change it to say, "if you're eating 30 grams of total carbs daily, you're in ketosis." If you're eating 30 grams net carbs, but your total carbs is 80 grams plus, your whole day will be wonky. Most of those bars/shakes have 20-40 grams of sugar alcohols. Two a day would make my total carbs close to 100 grams! I'd be interested to know OP's TOTAL number, not just NET.0 -
Knit, she's showing ketones in the urine. I don't know how you define ketosis, but she's making a bunch of ketones and her insulin levels are low. Why would a stall be related to ketone levels? (You don't need to answer that.
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If you're making ketones, you're probably not very hungry. If you're not hungry, you're probably not eating a lot. If you're not eating a lot, you're probably burning fat. If you're burning fat, and you're not losing weight, you're probably retaining water.0 -
Knit, she's showing ketones in the urine. I don't know how you define ketosis, but she's making a bunch of ketones and her insulin levels are low. Why would a stall be related to ketone levels? (You don't need to answer that.)
If you're making ketones, you're probably not very hungry. If you're not hungry, you're probably not eating a lot. If you're not eating a lot, you're probably burning fat. If you're burning fat, and you're not losing weight, you're probably retaining water.I have been doing LC for about 6-7 weeks now. I was losing great the first 3 weeks doing Atkins Induction. (about 10 pd) Around the 4 week period I started using some of the Atkins bars and shakes. I also added in low carb tortillas (3g net carbs) a few times a week. Even at 20 or less net carbs a day my keto test strips were not turning dark purple but definetly a lighter purple. I hit a stop after the 4th or 5th week and saw a gain, then stayed the same, so basically I have been within a couple pounds of my 3 wk loss for the past 4 weeks. I was testing with strips daily and all of a sudden...out of Keto even though I track every bit and I was under 2 net carbs a day always. I am pretty sure it is anything with Malitol that will knock me out of Keto. I dont think the atkins shakes have Malitol ( I didn't see it on the label) but almost all their bars have it. I found just 1 or 2 that did not.
So...I wanted to know what anyone else finds stalls them or knocks them out of Keto even though they are staying in their net carbs.
I am totally unsure about the Macro thing. I have been trying to keep my calories between 1200-14oo per day and my carbs at net 30 or less. I am getting discouraged as I quit eating all the bars and stuff and I am still not back in keto after 4 days so I am thinking maybe those low carb Tortillas are not good for me either
@Wabmester She stopped showing ketones cold turkey. And after four days extremely low carb, still has not returned to showing ketones in the urine.0 -
Ah, I missed that -- thought she was still light purple. OK, she's not dumping ketones in the urine, but she's still making ketones at 30g carbs. Even at 80g carbs.
Edit: good discussion of ketostix here:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10242815/ketostix
Bottom line: they're not a good indicator of ketosis (you can get false negatives), but it can be useful to know if you have ketones in the urine if you're interested in monitoring for potential sodium loss.0 -
Thanks everyone! I have only read the Atkins about net carbs so I am really pretty much a total novice at LC.
KnitorMiss...I think you are on the right track about not subtracting the sugar alcohols. At least not anything with Malitol. I did not seem to have a problem with Erythritol but I guess the the only way I will know for sure if a sugar alcohol effects me is to test my blood sugar before and after. My best bet is probably to not use any of those Atkins bars at all. I have seen some of the low carb Quest bars do not have Malitol but I am going to wait to try those.
Wabmester- thanks for that link about Ketones. I have read the test sticks are not always a good way to judge but being new...I thought that would be my best bet of trying to do things right.
I am a type 2 diabetic but I have been off my Metformin since starting this program and my fasting blood sugar has dropped from a normal morning test of about 120-130 down to about 104-109 so I know eliminating all the sugar and junk carbs is working for me.
I am going to have to do more research I think on the whole low carb thing. Whether it is better to do net carbs or total carbs, and which may be better for me long term. I lost 85 lbs ( in a year) doing low cal about 12 years ago but have since gained it all back. I tried the low cal again but I was losing so slow and having a lot of radical ups and downs in blood sugar. ( the lows of 60 BG levels are scary) Watching my carbs seems to be the best way to go. But which way to do that now seems to be a whole new area I have to look into.0 -
It's not really a matter of net vs total. The different types of "indigestible" carbs are all metabolized differently.
A lot of people here report problems with artificial sweeteners. There are different theories, but my personal favorite is the water retention theory.
IMHO, it's best to stick with real foods.0 -
I just count total carbs, it's easier on the brain. My sweetener of choice is liquid stevia, when I have coffee or tea.
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My personal experience with any Atkins Nutritionals products is that they affect my blood glucose and weight loss negatively. So much soy product and the sweeteners they use, regardless of what Net carb count they claim on the package, cannot possibly be good for you in the long run. I did best on Atkins when I ate meat, cheese, eggs, and salads. Once I added the shakes and bars, weight loss stopped and I craved something sweet every day. I figured that craving was normal, but now I see it was created by consuming the products.
My advice is = Eat real foods, not commercially baked/created/packaged products, and you will see the difference in appetite and cravings.
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Lack of a good deficit
Joke aside. It's true. I can so far only lose scale weight by doing a semi-fast. Maintenance range is oddly wide, though. My body is weird.
I do lose some fat though, but it's not reflected on the scales.0 -
I have to have something in my tea/coffee that is sweet to drink it. The longer I go low carb the less sweet I need it and I've cut back on the amount massively, but I still use AS daily; mostly liquid splenda and erythritol (Swerve). Neither affect my BG or have thrown me out of ketosis. Other than that, I try to avoid most carbs in general other than veggies and stay away from sugar free candy. My husband loves the low carb quest bars (yuck) and he's recently stalled. I'm blaming them. Hopefully it's just water retention and nothing else. He is adamant about not giving them up so, meh, not much I can do.0
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I'm pretty sure my large consumption of Diet Mountain Dew has slowed the pace at which I lose weight altogether, but I am addicted to it and can't seem to quit it. I've tried cutting back, by I end up going back to my large intake of it (that's me not admitting to how much I drink).
Every now and then I'll have a Quest Bar, but I do notice that the next several days I may chase a couple pounds back down- I don't notice that if I only eat half a bar though- so that whole "moderation is key" thing is true. But idk moderation well; I'm impulsive.
I prefer the taste of Splenda over Stevia, and at this point I'm trying to avoid using it unless absolutely needed. For me, having some routine meals (mostly lunch) with the same foods seems to help. Yes it can be boring, but that's what dinners are for ;-)0 -
It's not really a matter of net vs total. The different types of "indigestible" carbs are all metabolized differently.
A lot of people here report problems with artificial sweeteners. There are different theories, but my personal favorite is the water retention theory.
IMHO, it's best to stick with real foods.
Can anyone educate me on the scientific rationale for dumping Artificial sweeteners? I like tea, and take 2-3 cups of tea with Splenda everyday. Is it going to be detrimental to my weight loss? How?0 -
vikashsinha wrote: »It's not really a matter of net vs total. The different types of "indigestible" carbs are all metabolized differently.
A lot of people here report problems with artificial sweeteners. There are different theories, but my personal favorite is the water retention theory.
IMHO, it's best to stick with real foods.
Can anyone educate me on the scientific rationale for dumping Artificial sweeteners? I like tea, and take 2-3 cups of tea with Splenda everyday. Is it going to be detrimental to my weight loss? How?
Some people react to artificial sweeteners. It could be water retention, increased hunger, spiked cravings, weight loss stalls, or anything like this. Other people never have any problems with them at all. EDITED TO ADD: So it is a personal decision. If they don't seem to trigger you, keep them for now. If you end up stalling out, try reducing or removing them completely... Back pocket ace, the info is!
For me, personally, (and I've posted a comprehensive list somewhere, if you're curious at all) being Insulin Resistant means that most times, if my taste buds detect a sweet flavor, they are tricked, and insulin is released, starting my whole torture hunger/straight to storage/hunger cycle that destroys my progress. The only sweetener I have discovered that doesn't spike my insulin response so far is Sweet Leaf brand Stevia. I haven't braved the liquid yet, as most of those include "natural flavors" which tend to give me instant-migraine like headaches. The only sweetener with me that is hit and miss is aspartame. In a soda, it gives me mad cravings. In sugar-free jello (maybe because of the pairing with fats the way I make it - sour cream, extra gelatin, and heavy cream), it doesn't seem to trigger that reaction.
But most of my reactions are related to my insulin resistance. Luckily, not everyone has that issue! My worst effect from it though was every time I would eat, I would essentially pass out or lose consciousness (similar to narcolepsy) for anywhere from a few seconds to minutes without warning... It was impacting my ability to work, but I have since eliminated that reaction 99% of the time, though with increased carbs or sweeteners, it still returns...0 -
vikashsinha wrote: »It's not really a matter of net vs total. The different types of "indigestible" carbs are all metabolized differently.
A lot of people here report problems with artificial sweeteners. There are different theories, but my personal favorite is the water retention theory.
IMHO, it's best to stick with real foods.
Can anyone educate me on the scientific rationale for dumping Artificial sweeteners? I like tea, and take 2-3 cups of tea with Splenda everyday. Is it going to be detrimental to my weight loss? How?
My experience is that beyond a certain amount I start to get sweet cravings and I don't want to fight that. I'm pretty sure I will win, but I don't like that something can trigger an effect like that in my body. If I keep my usage low, I don't have any cravings come up.
Others have different effects too.0 -
Different sweeteners are different. Splenda=sucralose. There are about 400 studies on it:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=sucralose
Here's one at random:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26095119
Three potential mechanisms, which are not mutually exclusive, are presented: 1) NNSs interfere with learned responses that contribute to control glucose and energy homeostasis, 2) NNSs interfere with gut microbiota and induce glucose intolerance, and 3) NNSs interact with sweet-taste receptors expressed throughout the digestive system that play a role in glucose absorption and trigger insulin secretion. In addition, recent findings from our laboratory showing an association between individual taste sensitivity to detect sucralose and sucralose's acute effects on metabolic response to an oral glucose load are reported.0 -
Any "low carb" bars cause me to stall.
Any fake sugar, diet soda etc causes me to stall.
Any "carb replacement" food causes me to stall. That means fake noodles, fake bread, cake, etc made with almond flour or flax or similar.
In fact anything with too much fiber causes me to stall.
Too much protein causes me to stall. As does too much cheese.0 -
I'm pretty sure my large consumption of Diet Mountain Dew has slowed the pace at which I lose weight altogether, but I am addicted to it and can't seem to quit it. I've tried cutting back, by I end up going back to my large intake of it (that's me not admitting to how much I drink).
I drink way to much of it too0 -
Most powdered sweeteners add sugar of some sort for bulk. I tend to use stevia drops to avoid that.0
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KnitorMiss...I have been told at one point by my Dr that besides type 2 diabetes I have insulin resistance and metobolic syndrom. I would be interested in your comprehensive list if you can point me to it and any other info you have that has been working for you with insulin resistance. I never ate more then 1 Atkins bar a day but I did also add carbquick mix and low carb tortillas. I think maybe I will test my Blood sugar before eating any of those things and after to see if they are giving me a bigger reaction then expected. I only made a couple things with the carbquick and did not have much of it and same with the tortillas. No more then 2 small ones per day. With adding several different foods it is hard to tell exactly if the bars kicked me out of ketosis but I am pretty sure they were.
Wonderful information from everyone. I have been using swerve sweetener for the occasional cup of tea but usually I drink coffee with just 1 carb per cup Almond milk and some heavy cream. I may get some of the liquid stevia and try it. I bought some pure stevia powder (guaranteed no fillers added) but I have not used much of that so far.0 -
KnitorMiss...I have been told at one point by my Dr that besides type 2 diabetes I have insulin resistance and metobolic syndrom. I would be interested in your comprehensive list if you can point me to it and any other info you have that has been working for you with insulin resistance. I never ate more then 1 Atkins bar a day but I did also add carbquick mix and low carb tortillas. I think maybe I will test my Blood sugar before eating any of those things and after to see if they are giving me a bigger reaction then expected. I only made a couple things with the carbquick and did not have much of it and same with the tortillas. No more then 2 small ones per day. With adding several different foods it is hard to tell exactly if the bars kicked me out of ketosis but I am pretty sure they were.
Wonderful information from everyone. I have been using swerve sweetener for the occasional cup of tea but usually I drink coffee with just 1 carb per cup Almond milk and some heavy cream. I may get some of the liquid stevia and try it. I bought some pure stevia powder (guaranteed no fillers added) but I have not used much of that so far.
I sent this to you in PM, but the most recent time I can find that I typed it out was on this thread: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10238488/fake-sweeteners-seriously#latest
Honestly, I avoid anything breadlike. I would consider using crepes made from egg and cream cheese, but that's about it... At the very beginning, I used Joseph's Lavash Flatbread and Pitas, but I honestly feel fuller if I take the time to eat slowly from a plate, and I get fuller from eating WITHOUT the bread, even fake bread, as I just dont' have to worry about digesting all that - my body can get straight to the fuel.
Stevia tends to work best WITH another sweetener, as it is more of an amplifier...0 -
greenautumn17 wrote: »My personal experience with any Atkins Nutritionals products is that they affect my blood glucose and weight loss negatively. So much soy product and the sweeteners they use, regardless of what Net carb count they claim on the package, cannot possibly be good for you in the long run. I did best on Atkins when I ate meat, cheese, eggs, and salads. Once I added the shakes and bars, weight loss stopped and I craved something sweet every day. I figured that craving was normal, but now I see it was created by consuming the products.
My advice is = Eat real foods, not commercially baked/created/packaged products, and you will see the difference in appetite and cravings.
This^^^0
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