New with question on dawn phenomenon
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nvmomketo
Posts: 12,019 Member
Hi all,
I hope you don't mind my joining. I have prediabetes and am working to prevent it ( or slow it) from going further.
I am 41 and have lost 25 lbs to get back into a normal BMI. I hope to lose another 20lbs. I have changed my diet to very low carb, high fat, and am currently in ketosis, in an effort to control my BG through food. So far it is mostly working.
My question is with regards to high FBG. If I eat a meal sized snack before bed, usually macadamia nuts (1/3 cup) with a tablespoon of xylitol sweetened chocolate chips, or a cup of pistachios, or a couple of pepperoni sticks, my FBG bounces right back into prediabetic range (above a 5.6) the next morning. My FBG will then be at the high end of normal for another day or two of FBG measurements.
If I stop eating by 6:00pm this doesn't happen as often, just once in a while.
Does a late evening meal/snack often cause high FBG? Is this the dawn phenomenon?
My carb intake is usually under 30g per day, and I don't want to take it lower.
Any advice or thoughts on what is happening would be greatly appreciated. I know I need to stop eating before bed, I just mainly want to understand why. Thank you.
I hope you don't mind my joining. I have prediabetes and am working to prevent it ( or slow it) from going further.
I am 41 and have lost 25 lbs to get back into a normal BMI. I hope to lose another 20lbs. I have changed my diet to very low carb, high fat, and am currently in ketosis, in an effort to control my BG through food. So far it is mostly working.
My question is with regards to high FBG. If I eat a meal sized snack before bed, usually macadamia nuts (1/3 cup) with a tablespoon of xylitol sweetened chocolate chips, or a cup of pistachios, or a couple of pepperoni sticks, my FBG bounces right back into prediabetic range (above a 5.6) the next morning. My FBG will then be at the high end of normal for another day or two of FBG measurements.
If I stop eating by 6:00pm this doesn't happen as often, just once in a while.
Does a late evening meal/snack often cause high FBG? Is this the dawn phenomenon?
My carb intake is usually under 30g per day, and I don't want to take it lower.
Any advice or thoughts on what is happening would be greatly appreciated. I know I need to stop eating before bed, I just mainly want to understand why. Thank you.
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Replies
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If I recall correctly, the Dawn Phenomenon is when your prebreakfast BG is super-high because, while you sleep at night, your liver dumps reserved glucose into your blood, basically so you can live through the night. I don't know if there's a connection between snacking and sugars unless you eat all carbs for dinner.0
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Thanks.
I can't figure out why my FBG is higher on days when I eat before bed. I am lucky in that it is not super high (about a 101-110) but on the days when I don't eat in the evenings I can keep my FBG down to 80-95 with my dietary changes.
My BG after eating breakfast (eggs and coffee with cream) is usually lower than my FBG.
I thought it could be the dawn phenomenom but an evening snack seems to make it worse, and I thought it was thought to help keep FBG down.
I am eating very few carbs. A carb laden meal for me is 15 g of carbs. Most meals are at 0-10g of carbs. I am in ketosis and not relying on carb intake for fuel. The funny thing is that even when my FBG jumps up to 6.0 (110), my ketostix indicate that I am still in ketosis. A bit odd.0 -
Thanks.
I can't figure out why my FBG is higher on days when I eat before bed. I am lucky in that it is not super high (about a 101-110) but on the days when I don't eat in the evenings I can keep my FBG down to 80-95 with my dietary changes.
My BG after eating breakfast (eggs and coffee with cream) is usually lower than my FBG.
I thought it could be the dawn phenomenom but an evening snack seems to make it worse, and I thought it was thought to help keep FBG down.
I am eating very few carbs. A carb laden meal for me is 15 g of carbs. Most meals are at 0-10g of carbs. I am in ketosis and not relying on carb intake for fuel. The funny thing is that even when my FBG jumps up to 6.0 (110), my ketostix indicate that I am still in ketosis. A bit odd.
Well, here's my experience. I have very high FBS (200 and up). My doctor told me to eat a snack before bed with some carb and protein to ward off the DP. No matter if I eat a snack or not, my FBS is always very high. Here's what I have learned.
1. Eat a good breakfast within one hour of rising. Today I woke up and had water and not much else. my BS went UP- even after not eating anything. So, made tuna with mayo. Still high. So I decided to go out to eat and ordred scarmbled eggs; bacon and sausages. tested again after one hour of eating-- It was 140.
2. I think that having a big meal shut off the mechainism that dumps sugar into e blood )BS was 200 prior to that big mean-- lchf--and 140 one hour later. Go figure
3. Exercise before bed-- 15 minutes of waling will help get your muscles going to handle the BS. Whenever I do this-my FBS is lower in the AM
4. One thing that Type 2's do for high FBS is to take long acting insulin before bed or 2x per day. The two that are mosr frequently used are Levemir and Lantos. Doc told me to do this--but I am trying to lower BS w/oot it with mixed results. It didn't work to well for me before.
5. Metformin-- I have been experimenting with when I take it. I can't see much difference right now.
6. Water-- if you are dehydrated your BS goes up-- I am now trying to get in a large glass of water first thing in the morning and before bed.
I am not an expert. However, I wish I had known 10 years ago that I was pre-diabetic adn then I wouldn't be dealing with this mess. Getting your BS under control now will save you for TT. I wish you the best!
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sorry for the typos!0
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Thanks.
I can't figure out why my FBG is higher on days when I eat before bed. I am lucky in that it is not super high (about a 101-110) but on the days when I don't eat in the evenings I can keep my FBG down to 80-95 with my dietary changes.
My BG after eating breakfast (eggs and coffee with cream) is usually lower than my FBG.
I thought it could be the dawn phenomenom but an evening snack seems to make it worse, and I thought it was thought to help keep FBG down.
I am eating very few carbs. A carb laden meal for me is 15 g of carbs. Most meals are at 0-10g of carbs. I am in ketosis and not relying on carb intake for fuel. The funny thing is that even when my FBG jumps up to 6.0 (110), my ketostix indicate that I am still in ketosis. A bit odd.
Well, here's my experience. I have very high FBS (200 and up). My doctor told me to eat a snack before bed with some carb and protein to ward off the DP. No matter if I eat a snack or not, my FBS is always very high. Here's what I have learned.
1. Eat a good breakfast within one hour of rising. Today I woke up and had water and not much else. my BS went UP- even after not eating anything. So, made tuna with mayo. Still high. So I decided to go out to eat and ordred scarmbled eggs; bacon and sausages. tested again after one hour of eating-- It was 140.
2. I think that having a big meal shut off the mechainism that dumps sugar into e blood )BS was 200 prior to that big mean-- lchf--and 140 one hour later. Go figure
3. Exercise before bed-- 15 minutes of waling will help get your muscles going to handle the BS. Whenever I do this-my FBS is lower in the AM
4. One thing that Type 2's do for high FBS is to take long acting insulin before bed or 2x per day. The two that are mosr frequently used are Levemir and Lantos. Doc told me to do this--but I am trying to lower BS w/oot it with mixed results. It didn't work to well for me before.
5. Metformin-- I have been experimenting with when I take it. I can't see much difference right now.
6. Water-- if you are dehydrated your BS goes up-- I am now trying to get in a large glass of water first thing in the morning and before bed.
I am not an expert. However, I wish I had known 10 years ago that I was pre-diabetic adn then I wouldn't be dealing with this mess. Getting your BS under control now will save you for TT. I wish you the best!
Thanks so much for the advice.
I had noticed that my FBG is often lower if I go for a walk the day before. I need to do that more often.
I find a LCHF breakfast tends to lower my BG too. Kind of nice how that works. It seems counter intuitive.
I'll remember the water tip too. I get dehydrated pretty easily while eating LCHF.
Thanks for the well wishes too. I hope you get yours figured out too. 0 -
I was so surprised that such a big, high fat breakfast would actually help mu BS go down! It is counter intuitve, Before lchf I would never eat a breakfast like that!!!0
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I have read that walking is one of the best things to do for pre or diabetes. At least every other day.0
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I'm glad to hear that walking is good for pre or diabetes. I' re been diagnosed with pre diabetes. I lowered my a1c from 6.0 to 5.7 in the last 3 months - losing weight (I had started losing before the 6.0 reading, but only about a month). I'm now solidly in the healthy range for my height. I have also been walking and/or working out 6 days a week. I'm trying to watch my carbs, but that is hard for me.0
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I'm glad to hear that walking is good for pre or diabetes. I' re been diagnosed with pre diabetes. I lowered my a1c from 6.0 to 5.7 in the last 3 months - losing weight (I had started losing before the 6.0 reading, but only about a month). I'm now solidly in the healthy range for my height. I have also been walking and/or working out 6 days a week. I'm trying to watch my carbs, but that is hard for me.
That's good!
I'm the reverse; a diet change was easier than getting into the habit of exercise.0 -
One thing I found out, by wearing my fitbit in Sleep Mode:
If I have a restless night, or wake up early then go back to sleep... or "sleep in" (for me that's sleeping til 8am), my numbers will be higher, regardless of what I have done the day before.
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CrisEBTrue wrote: »One thing I found out, by wearing my fitbit in Sleep Mode:
If I have a restless night, or wake up early then go back to sleep... or "sleep in" (for me that's sleeping til 8am), my numbers will be higher, regardless of what I have done the day before.
Really? That's interesting. I'll have to keep that in mind. Thanks.
Well, last night I did not snack. I ate my last meal (cheeseburger pie: beef, eggs, mayo, cheese, onion, spices, along with a couple of stalks of celery) at 6:00pm. My day had 1g of carbs total, yet my FBG was 5.9, or about a 108. Strange.
Another question:
Can an illness raise FBG? I've had shingles (oh joy) for about 2.5 weeks. Could that help throw it off?0 -
I have heard that it would. I, sadly, survived MRSA recently, and the hospital force-fed me my weight in insulin before and after every bite or sip, even with water.CrisEBTrue wrote: »One thing I found out, by wearing my fitbit in Sleep Mode:
If I have a restless night, or wake up early then go back to sleep... or "sleep in" (for me that's sleeping til 8am), my numbers will be higher, regardless of what I have done the day before.
Really? That's interesting. I'll have to keep that in mind. Thanks.
Well, last night I did not snack. I ate my last meal (cheeseburger pie: beef, eggs, mayo, cheese, onion, spices, along with a couple of stalks of celery) at 6:00pm. My day had 1g of carbs total, yet my FBG was 5.9, or about a 108. Strange.
Another question:
Can an illness raise FBG? I've had shingles (oh joy) for about 2.5 weeks. Could that help throw it off?
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Yes, I think any kind of illness can throw your BS off. Think of it as extra stress on your system.0
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I have heard that it would. I, sadly, survived MRSA recently, and the hospital force-fed me my weight in insulin before and after every bite or sip, even with water.CrisEBTrue wrote: »One thing I found out, by wearing my fitbit in Sleep Mode:
If I have a restless night, or wake up early then go back to sleep... or "sleep in" (for me that's sleeping til 8am), my numbers will be higher, regardless of what I have done the day before.
Really? That's interesting. I'll have to keep that in mind. Thanks.
Well, last night I did not snack. I ate my last meal (cheeseburger pie: beef, eggs, mayo, cheese, onion, spices, along with a couple of stalks of celery) at 6:00pm. My day had 1g of carbs total, yet my FBG was 5.9, or about a 108. Strange.
Another question:
Can an illness raise FBG? I've had shingles (oh joy) for about 2.5 weeks. Could that help throw it off?
Yikes. I'm glad you are better!
Hmmm, so maybe this virus is in fact doing something. I guess I'll know for sure once I am better, or my FBG comes down again. Thanks @CrisEBTrue and @zcb94. 0 -
FBG was 5.6 or something yesterday.
Today it was 6.2 at 7:30. Granted, my dinner was big and a higher carb for me (17g with beans and a kale salad) but I stopped eating by 6:00. I had heavy coffee with cream and protein powder, and my BG fell to 4.3.
I guess it is the dawn phenomenom which is (hopefully) back to prediabetic due to my sickness, or not having a large enough calorie deficit the night before.
Thanks again all.0 -
Update.
My FBG is lower again. My virus is going away so I think that helped. I tried a 24 hour water fast too and that brought it way down, so now I know Fasting is a good trick to use if it goes up again.0
