"Carb Cheat Day" on Keto?
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ColinsMommaOC
Posts: 296 Member
So someone asked me yesterday how often I have a "carb cheat day" (their words) while I am eating a Keto Diet. As a rule I don't do cheat days of any nature. I simply find ways to fit what I want to eat into my day. I have not been craving carbs (other than ice cream in this heat) overly much, so I am not sure why I would want to over eat my carbs on a day every so often. But he seemed to think it was an important part of the diet, and that I had to do it to refill glycogen stores or something... Does anyone have any thoughts or maybe can explain if this is true and why?
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The theory goes that you want to do a carb "re-feed" every once in a while to balance hormones (specifically leptin) and boost metabolism. Some people swear by it, others find it completely unnecessary. My brother is a bodybuilder and he uses a cyclical keto diet while he's cutting and has very good results... but he also trains like a beast so I think for him it's more important that he refills those glycogen stores.
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bluefish86 wrote: »The theory goes that you want to do a carb "re-feed" every once in a while to balance hormones (specifically leptin) and boost metabolism. Some people swear by it, others find it completely unnecessary. My brother is a bodybuilder and he uses a cyclical keto diet while he's cutting and has very good results... but he also trains like a beast so I think for him it's more important that he refills those glycogen stores.
co-signed x
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My dietitian calls it a "carb cycle" but yes, I do this. Granted, I remain in keto even on a "high" day of 45-55g, because my low days are 10-20g. But it's a big cycle for me. She has me cycle once every 10-14 days usually.
My diary is open, but realize I'm on some severe doctor-ordered restrictions, so portions are off. I do make notes on the days I carb cycle and the next day of a hard reset. Sept 2 and 3 were the most recent cycle and reset days.0 -
OK- But it is not necessary? I have had some days (like yesterday) that I was over my carbs by quite a bit, I was still under 100g but definitely over the 20g I have allotted, but they were not planned. I just want to make sure that if I choose not to do this as I am not a bodybuilder and am not having energy issues it will not negatively affect me.0
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Definitely not necessary. Your body can convert for what it needs.0
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My hubby got bored real fast with keto in general despite super fast 51 lbs gone. I suggested carb cycling to him, but it remains to be seen if he can handle the low carb days or not at this point. Meh.0
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ColinsMommaOC wrote: »OK- But it is not necessary? I have had some days (like yesterday) that I was over my carbs by quite a bit, I was still under 100g but definitely over the 20g I have allotted, but they were not planned. I just want to make sure that if I choose not to do this as I am not a bodybuilder and am not having energy issues it will not negatively affect me.
Under 100g? You may or may not get kicked out of ketosis... the good news is if you're consistently under 20g you'll probably be back in by the next morning!
I don't see it effecting you negatively in the long run, except that you may lose slightly less weight than if you were to stay in keto 24/7.0 -
I personally carb cycle and calorie shift since I like my carbs. I'll eat 700-900 calories for a couple days so I can have high carb pasta or pizza on the weekend. I try to get back into ketosis quickly again with a intense workout or lots cardio.
It's probably not necessary if you're not craving carbs or don't have any symptoms of a hypoglycemic reaction.0 -
If someone who is fat/keto adapted has a carby day and gets kicked out of ketosis, are they starting from square one again? If so, I'm not sure it would be worth it for me. I don't do cheat days because I really lack control with sugar/carbs, so that day turns into a year
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Personally, for me, the whole concept of a "cheat" is the problem. If I want carby stuff, I will work it in, have a higher day planned, or snag a bite of my guy's whatever. Usually a bite or a few is enough. I don't need a plate of pasta from the Olive Garden to put me in a coma. If I miss the stuff that bad, I'll eat it, period. No guilt. No cheat. No mental crap...
I am on board this party train for life - I have to be due to health conditions. I was slowly killing myself with carbs before.
I have had a total of I think 3 days in 9 months, sparsed out about once a quarter of slightly over 100 grams of carbs. I have not fully kicked myself out of ketosis, at least not as far as having to endure keto flu again. I waited a full 3 months of adaption before a higher carb day. I try to make these deliberate and aware.
The biggest consequence for me is the initial carb coma, which is only a minor annoyance - and the carb cravings/junks. OMG THE CRAVINGS. Honestly, it matters most WHAT I eat. I have successfully eating a cinnamon roll (from a can) with 1/2 the icing with no additional headaches. I have eaten mashed potatoes on occasion. But I had a piece of cake, which was fine, and ate the icing on top, and got instant sugar headaches. So you have to learn what is bad FOR YOU. Nutritional ketosis is all an individual game.
Like I know tomatoes don't spike my blood sugar, but strawberries do, etc. Some carbs are more friendly to some people. I cannot think that for a long while that I'll ever have a 400 gram of carb day again...if ever. Even on days I try to "cheat" per se, I don't eat like I thought I would. Certain things just are not appealing.
Getting healthier, losing weight, all that, it's a mental game. The physical follows. You have to get your mind wrapped around everything, and the rest gets easier. Personally, I still have hiccup days, and I still have weak moments, because let's face it, I'm human. I just have to figure out how to minimize the impact, make those things a conscious choice or acceptance, banish the guilt which is far more damaging than any calorie or macro, and make the next bite ON PLAN...0 -
My goal at moment because of my large weight is <20g. When I cannot avoid a blow out (2 occassions in last 16 weeks) I was kicked wrll and truely out of ketosis. But was back in within 24-48 hours (yay).
There is no way I would have a 'cheat day'. I would never become keto adapted. I see a cheat day as a way to mentally tease muself into thinking i eas copeing with a WOE. But it also allows myself to think its OK to slip into old eating habits. Is that why so many people slip back and put the weight on?
After doing a lot of reading in the last 16 weeks whilst on LC and why other ways didn't work for me - I see this way is how I will need to eat for the rest of my life. I don't need to cheat as I'm not hungry at all, I'm achieving losing weight & I'm feeling healthier.
I cannot afford to think of this as a diet, (which we all know its OK to have a cheat day or meal - so we are tricked into thinking) but instead I am determined its a lifetime way of eating so a cheat day is not an option. Instead I will have bumps in the road which I have no control of & that short term hickup is nothing compared to the long term.1 -
I haven't incorporated a "Cheat day" into my woe. I tried that years ago with another woe and failed miserably. Since then I don't allow the word "cheat" into my vernacular. A cheat day leads to a cheating wol, for me, and I CHOOSE differently! That said, I have allowed a Cheat treat (gelato and a milk chocolate bar) into my diet, but suffered the consequences (GI distress with some pain, but especially runny nose, which used to be chronic). So, I choose to leave the cheats for others! Good luck!0
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There are a few primary variations of the Ketogenic diet:
1. Standard Ketogenic Diet (SKD)
2. Cyclical Ketogenic Diet (CKD)
3. Targeted Ketogenic Diet (TKD)
For the sake of our topic, I won't discuss the TKD. Most of the posts, replies, and comments I've read throughout the forum appear to be coming from those who are living the SKD lifestyle. And everyone is doing absolutely great from what I've seen.
I am actually on what you would refer to as the CKD, which does allow for "carb-loading". The CKD is really designed to take advantage of the SKD while maintaining exercise performance by replenishing muscle glycogen levels. I currently lift weights 4 times per week (my routine varies every 2-3 months or so). Every person on the CKD does things a little differently, but I cycle my carbs for 36 hours (1-2 days recommended) once every 7 days (you can cycle every 3-4 days or 8-12 days, really however you feel like you want to do it depending on your goals). Every Friday at 6PM through Saturday at midnight I eat as many carbs as I possibly can. You can also refer to this as a "cheat" day but there isn't much information available as to how it effects Ketosis adaption. From my own experiences, as soon as I flip off the carb-loading switch at midnight on Saturday, it takes anywhere from 1-3 days to kick things back into Ketosis for me. So the CKD is something that should be supplemented with a very healthy amount of exercise. The reason behind the CKD is that in high-intensity type training (whether it's strength training or aerobics) is that when muscle glycogen is fully depleted, your body will start breaking down protein as a fuel source. Ain't nobody want that.
Reading back on this - my response was completely unorganized and might appear confusing. Let me know if you'd like me to elaborate on this topic a bit more.
Wait, one last note on the Keto flu as I'd read somebody's response earlier. The keto "flu" lasted for a solid 4-5 weeks for me and went away entirely each re-feed day. On and beyond week 6, I felt incredibly energetic. Like I was on ADHD medication or something. It was a great feeling.
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For me..... cheat days would only be cheating myself.
I lose.
Not worth it.
But then I'm not on a ckd as the poster above.0 -
6 weeks in and no craving for anything that I consider a cheat on normal diets I would have a cheat meal once a week and always craved things I couldn't/shouldn't have, info how ever have my 40th bday party coming up and I'm scared I'll feel like I have to have cake not to hurt anyone's feelings that bought the cake lol. But.... I bet I get out of it when the time comes just no desire0
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And birthday cake and glazed donuts are my weakness! Just don't crave them though0
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Yeah, CKD is incredibly challenging. I'd only recommend it for those who have very specific goals. Re-feed days can be adjusted. For those who are fairly new to the Ketogenic Diet and are interested in the CKD, I would recommend pushing re-feed days to once every 2 weeks at the very least or once every month. This way you can get yourself adjusted to the Ketogenic Diet first. The most challenging part of any variation of the Ketogenic Diet is understanding what you are and are not allowed to eat. Starting on a re-feed or cheat day too early may easily kick you off the diet totally.
Plus, I heard that a habit is built in two-weeks time so I'm also factoring that in
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CommandaPanda wrote: »Yeah, CKD is incredibly challenging. I'd only recommend it for those who have very specific goals. Re-feed days can be adjusted. For those who are fairly new to the Ketogenic Diet and are interested in the CKD, I would recommend pushing re-feed days to once every 2 weeks at the very least or once every month. This way you can get yourself adjusted to the Ketogenic Diet first. The most challenging part of any variation of the Ketogenic Diet is understanding what you are and are not allowed to eat. Starting on a re-feed or cheat day too early may easily kick you off the diet totally.
Plus, I heard that a habit is built in two-weeks time so I'm also factoring that in
Hi
I'm new to keto and am doing skd. I am very athletic however. How will I know If my body is breaking down protein for fuel? I feel good, have only had a couple of somewhat off days (and mostly during strenuous workout) and have lost a few lbs. I am only looking to reduce 8 lbs, maybe 10 if the gods allow it:)
Thanks.
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Teleportation wrote: »CommandaPanda wrote: »Yeah, CKD is incredibly challenging. I'd only recommend it for those who have very specific goals. Re-feed days can be adjusted. For those who are fairly new to the Ketogenic Diet and are interested in the CKD, I would recommend pushing re-feed days to once every 2 weeks at the very least or once every month. This way you can get yourself adjusted to the Ketogenic Diet first. The most challenging part of any variation of the Ketogenic Diet is understanding what you are and are not allowed to eat. Starting on a re-feed or cheat day too early may easily kick you off the diet totally.
Plus, I heard that a habit is built in two-weeks time so I'm also factoring that in
Hi
I'm new to keto and am doing skd. I am very athletic however. How will I know If my body is breaking down protein for fuel? I feel good, have only had a couple of somewhat off days (and mostly during strenuous workout) and have lost a few lbs. I am only looking to reduce 8 lbs, maybe 10 if the gods allow it:)
Thanks.
General rule of thumb for all variations of keto (SKD, CKD, TKD) recommends that you increase your protein intake for the first few weeks of adaption. Since you're exercising, as a general rule of thumb, protein should be goaled at 0.9g per lb of body weight (or 150g of protein, whichever is higher) for the first three weeks of ketosis. This would be considered the "keto adaption phase" (shifting the body from glucose towards fat metabolism). Without getting too deep into detail, we want to minimize nitrogen loss and meet glucose needs for the body (mitigating gluconeogenesis, which essentially is the process of breaking down muscle protein to glucose).
Some quick math here to clarify the equation I left above. Let's say I am a 140lbs. individual who exercises (sedentary dieters should reduce that protein # to 0.8g per lb.):
140 * 0.9 = 126g of Protein < 150g - This individual would increase their protein intake to 150g for the first 3 weeks.
A 170lbs. individual who exercises:
170 * 0.9 = 153g of Protein > 150g - This individual would increase protein intake to 153g for the first 3 weeks
A 200lbs. individual who is sedentary:
200 * 0.8 = 160g of Protein > 150g - This individual would increase protein intake to 160g for the first 3 weeks.
Once adaption is achieved, protein can be reduced to as little as 50g per day to achieve nitrogen balance.
[Credit to Lyle McDonald, "The Ketogenic Diet"]
So, in short. It's pretty difficult to determine muscle and protein loss. There may be some medical tests that you can run to achieve this; assuming your nutrition is in check and you are properly monitoring your macronutrient intake, I don't see you sustaining a significant loss in muscle. Especially since you're just starting out in your first couple of days. It's important to ensure you are consuming enough protein to meet your body's glucose needs (which is why we set our protein intake so high in the initial induction phase).0 -
CommandaPanda wrote: »There are a few primary variations of the Ketogenic diet:
1. Standard Ketogenic Diet (SKD)
2. Cyclical Ketogenic Diet (CKD)
3. Targeted Ketogenic Diet (TKD)
For the sake of our topic, I won't discuss the TKD. Most of the posts, replies, and comments I've read throughout the forum appear to be coming from those who are living the SKD lifestyle. And everyone is doing absolutely great from what I've seen.
I am actually on what you would refer to as the CKD, which does allow for "carb-loading". The CKD is really designed to take advantage of the SKD while maintaining exercise performance by replenishing muscle glycogen levels. I currently lift weights 4 times per week (my routine varies every 2-3 months or so). Every person on the CKD does things a little differently, but I cycle my carbs for 36 hours (1-2 days recommended) once every 7 days (you can cycle every 3-4 days or 8-12 days, really however you feel like you want to do it depending on your goals). Every Friday at 6PM through Saturday at midnight I eat as many carbs as I possibly can. You can also refer to this as a "cheat" day but there isn't much information available as to how it effects Ketosis adaption. From my own experiences, as soon as I flip off the carb-loading switch at midnight on Saturday, it takes anywhere from 1-3 days to kick things back into Ketosis for me. So the CKD is something that should be supplemented with a very healthy amount of exercise. The reason behind the CKD is that in high-intensity type training (whether it's strength training or aerobics) is that when muscle glycogen is fully depleted, your body will start breaking down protein as a fuel source. Ain't nobody want that.
Reading back on this - my response was completely unorganized and might appear confusing. Let me know if you'd like me to elaborate on this topic a bit more.
Wait, one last note on the Keto flu as I'd read somebody's response earlier. The keto "flu" lasted for a solid 4-5 weeks for me and went away entirely each re-feed day. On and beyond week 6, I felt incredibly energetic. Like I was on ADHD medication or something. It was a great feeling.
Nailed it man. That's exactly what I have been doing for the past 6 weeks. Before that, I took 2 months to get as close to keto adapted as possible. Now, I'm making lean gains without the extra fat that typically comes with it. I freaking love it!0
