Supplements on Keto :-)
fit_ellie
Posts: 11 Member
Hi Low Carbers!
I'm on Keto for just under a week now. So far I'm doing great
I had a sneek peek at the scales this morning and so far I have lost 3.5lbs but the weigh in is not until Thursday so yeeeey! to me
Before LCHF lifestyle I ate a lot fruit and veg. I loved apples and bananas and all the berries. Now obviously I'm limited.
My carb intake for last few days is under 30g, yeeeey!
Ok, my question is:
are you using any supplements to make sure you have enough fruit and veg goodness, like powder veg?
What kind of supplements are you using, if any?
I know salt in the water is a must but how much salt should I be having a day?
How much fiber should I be having?
What other things should I be having to make sure I'm going to last healthy on Keto??
WOW, a lot of questions! LOL
Thank you so much in advance!
I'm on Keto for just under a week now. So far I'm doing great
I had a sneek peek at the scales this morning and so far I have lost 3.5lbs but the weigh in is not until Thursday so yeeeey! to me
Before LCHF lifestyle I ate a lot fruit and veg. I loved apples and bananas and all the berries. Now obviously I'm limited.
My carb intake for last few days is under 30g, yeeeey!
Ok, my question is:
are you using any supplements to make sure you have enough fruit and veg goodness, like powder veg?
What kind of supplements are you using, if any?
I know salt in the water is a must but how much salt should I be having a day?
How much fiber should I be having?
What other things should I be having to make sure I'm going to last healthy on Keto??
WOW, a lot of questions! LOL
Thank you so much in advance!
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Replies
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This is a highly contentious area among the low-carb eaters. You will hear a full range of opinions.
What supplements do you need? Short of a documented deficiency, none. You just don't need any. You will get all you need from food.
How much fiber do you need? None. I consume absolutely no fiber and have no issues. I am not alone. For many people, fiber is a cause of problems and not a cure.
Should you be adding salt to water? Only if you like drinking salt water. At the start, you will have higher needs for salt, potassium, and magnesium but you can add it to food without needing to drink it. After a few weeks, you won't even need to continue to add it to food, unless you like it.
Eating keto, you will be able to eat plenty of leafy green veggies, if you feel like veggies are important to health. So, you aren't missing out. Fruit adds little to nothing from a health perspective. Both fruit and veggies aren't really necessary. A few of us here have gone completely plant-free and only experienced improvements in overall health from it.0 -
Thank you so much :-)
All my life I've been hearing 5 a day and all that so my brain still thinks all the fruit and veggies are important. Eat a rainbow and all that.
It might take me a while to get used to it.
I'm happy on my woe at the moment 0 -
Due to the likely degradation of nutrients in our food, I would recommend at least a multi-vitamin. I've never heard a medical professional not recommend taking a multi-vitamin. They are cheap and easy to take. I take a food-based one with a good blend from plants. I think it's worth it. But I am very pro-supplementation. (And pro-plants.) I think BCAA's, creatine, beta-alanine, fish oil and a few others have more than enough long-term research to support and justify their use. But that depends on your specific goals, especially in the gym for some of those. I'm 100% in favor of well-researched supplementation and don't think of them as a waste of money at all.0
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I agree with all of that. The only exception I personally have is that even after 6 months of Keto I still find I need the salt. I had always heard ketones would be lower and salt loss would stabilize and that may be true that they are lower for me than in the beginning, but I have never had a urine strip test lower than moderate and I can feel it when I have neglected my salt. I eventually started taking magnesium and added potassium in the form of salt substitute because I was getting frequent leg/foot cramps and that stays under control as long as I stay up on those 2 things too.
I have looked into other supplements but I do believe they are unnecessary unless there is an actual deficiency and I haven't had any kind of blood work done to check, so I'm gonna skip it for now. Plus, I've also heard, like many other blood tests, they generally don't even look for the right things anyway so it's a little overwhelming to know what to even ask for if you want to have that checked. I'm starting to think you have to see a naturopathic doctor if you actually want real information about how your diet is benefitting your body.0 -
Thank you so much everyone :-)
I do take fish oil and multivitamin already and I'm just going to stick to that.
I'm glad I don't need anything else :-)0 -
I don't take a multi-vitamin any longer...too much random crap in there that I don't really need... I'd prefer to take targeted supplements. But I agree with most of the rest of the above. There are some things that really can't hurt, but in general, for Keto without bloodwork showing other deficiencies, I'd stick with adding sodium (5000 mg MINIMUM during adaption is the number I hear most often, and like @Sunny_Bunny_ I took still need sodium 9+ months in, but I think a lot of that has to do with that fact that i'm atrociously inconsistent on my fluid consumption) and magnesium. I wouldn't add potassium unless you've had baseline blood work done.
As @monikker said, if you're lifting, there are other support supplements available there, but if you're getting good quality organic and grass-fed meats, you're getting a lot of that already. Me personally, I'd rather get my nutrition from food, but it's not always possible.
But no, this way of eating does not require major supplementation. A lot of the research I've run across shows that daily recommended values are based on the SAD (standard american diet) being a standard. Also, carbs require a lot of "extra" stuff to process them properly. Personally, I'll stick with fats as my fuel and let my body run as efficiently as it can!
But, whenever you're in for an annual check up, I'd get a full workup if it's financially feasible. Best to have baselines, if nothing else.
Also, on the fish oil, make sure it's got more Omega 3's than 6's. We're terrible about getting way too many 6's in our diet, when the ratio is something crazy like 18:1 that we need 3's more than 6's! So if you're wanting to keep taking it, check into the quality of your supplement. Never hurts to check...0 -
I am taking Juice Plus that has all the veggie/fruit nutrition. It has 2 net carbs per daily dose and a probiotic, BUT I have an autoimmune disease that effects my Gastrointestinal system. (UC)0
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I take a kids chewable multivitamin and chewable vitamin d every day (regular vitamins make me nauseated). I also drink Natural Calm for magnesium at night and generously salt my food and use lo salt on some dishes.0
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I take quite a few supplements, but I am a recovering celiac so I tend to get a bit low in nutrients, and to help with thyroid function. I take Ca+Mg, multi, D, A, E, CoQ10, selenium, boron, iodine, fish oil, oregeno oil (I'm sick), C, maca and ... something else.
I add a whey protein powder to my coffee. I have a veggies based one too, but those don't taste as good. It's only good hidden in baking for my kids.
I'm one who salts my water because I was getting cramps and headaches. I couldn't seem to get enough otherwise. I add about 30 shakes or 3/4 of a tsp to a small cup of water every morning. I have broth every few days too.
My fibre is low. Probably 5g per day. The oils keep me moving MUCH better than fibre ever has.
I'm a newbie too though - only 4 months in. I'm still learning too so take my info with a grain of salt. 0 -
I take omega 3s, vitamin D3 and BCAAs daily. I've also got a stash of greens plus and whey for when my diet isn't on point.
I wouldn't call them necessary, but I would recommend omega 3s and vitamin d to anyone living more than 37° north of the equator... except for maybe the Swedes; they eat a lot of pickled herring.0 -
I take vitamin C and iron, plus a gummy prenatal. The first is to strengthen collagen so I don't bruise so much, the second because I am deficient and the third because no birth control is 100% and I'd rather just be prepared. I'm also going to start on a couple others, but all are doctor advised for a specific condition. I am supposed to eat lots of salt, usually don't though.0
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oh, thank you so much everyone so much to take in lol 0
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It a lot to learn, but you will get it. A little time and you'll have a handle on it all! I have been LCHF since mid March with keto level since May 1st. I continue to supplement sodium, potassium and magnesium because I still get leg cramps if I don't. I am a gastric bypass patient and don't absorb all of the nutrients from my food. I do take a multi vitamin, vitamin c (helps with some bruising spots on legs that can show up), calcium, and B12. I have had lab work done and all labs were within normal limits. I recently been drinking some pickle juice (I've seen others here doing it) and it gives me an awesome energy boost!
This woe goes against everything you've ever learned, or been told, about nutrition! Keep reading and arming yourself with the knowledge it takes to get to being comfortable with your food choices. It gets so much easier once you work through the initial carb cravings.
All of the advice you've received is awesome! Use it to help you find your balance. It's wonderful that you're here!! 0 -
My supplements are geared to boost my immune system at the cellular level. I have just added bitter raw apricot seeds to tweak my small remaining pain level. I was reading of an arthritis clinic in Germany that does this. I just started adding one seed a day and was up to four today. Some report weight gains from bitter raw apricot seeds but not sure but it may be from a better appetite perhaps.
I really like them and as a kid I would crack peach pits to get that bitter taste. Before I stopped eating apples I ate those seeds for the bitter taste as well. I am still working to understand how they manage pain. I know apricot seeds get a lot of negative press when people use them to try and cure cancer but as far as I know I do not have cancer.
Getting off all grains and most all sugars really knocked my pain down well but thought I would try these Apricot Power brand since they are only about $20 a pound.
Supplements may be of limited use but they are a hobby to me. 0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »
Supplements may be of limited use but they are a hobby to me.
Interesting I'd like to hear your results on the apricot product. I'm a supplement addict so I understand. The Vitamin Shoppe is one of my fav places, I can't get enough. It doesn't have to be necessary to be beneficial.0 -
But OP the main thing you'd want to monitor per other posters here is how you feel because you could need to increase your sodium, magnesium and potassium if you start feeling poopy. And just make sure you drink at least 8-10 cups water0
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I have just re-started low carb. I did it years ago but I know I didn't follow it properly. What is the reason for needing so much sodium? I currently take magnesium, b-12, biotin, iron (which I probably won't need anymore eating so much meat) and will be adding potasium.0
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esaucier17 wrote: »I have just re-started low carb. I did it years ago but I know I didn't follow it properly. What is the reason for needing so much sodium? I currently take magnesium, b-12, biotin, iron (which I probably won't need anymore eating so much meat) and will be adding potasium.
Sodium is lost with the waste ketones and isn't stored the way it is when your carbs are higher. Therefore, you need more to maintain proper electrolyte balance. If you don't, the body will start using potassium, then magnesium, to flush with the waste ketones in order to conserve sodium, and your blood volume will decrease to keep the concentration at the right level (which isn't entirely a good thing).
You shouldn't need the b-12 and iron if you're eating a fair bit of meat. Biotin can be easily obtained through eggs if you tolerate them (just FYI).
I don't really supplement except for things that I know to help. I'll do magnesium citrate during certain parts of my cycle. I do a fermented cod liver oil/high vitamin butter oil for dental health and vitamin D and K2 (K2 is nearly absent in most people's diets, and I'm not eating as much butter as I was; and I tested way deficient in Vitamin D). I also take Inositol (vitamin B8, though it's a nonessential vitamin) for my PCOS and insulin resistance, and Phosphatidyl Serine for anxiety (which seems to be caused by elevated cortisol, since that's what it lowers and it helps).0 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »esaucier17 wrote: »I have just re-started low carb. I did it years ago but I know I didn't follow it properly. What is the reason for needing so much sodium? I currently take magnesium, b-12, biotin, iron (which I probably won't need anymore eating so much meat) and will be adding potasium.
Sodium is lost with the waste ketones and isn't stored the way it is when your carbs are higher. Therefore, you need more to maintain proper electrolyte balance. If you don't, the body will start using potassium, then magnesium, to flush with the waste ketones in order to conserve sodium, and your blood volume will decrease to keep the concentration at the right level (which isn't entirely a good thing).
You shouldn't need the b-12 and iron if you're eating a fair bit of meat. Biotin can be easily obtained through eggs if you tolerate them (just FYI).
I don't really supplement except for things that I know to help. I'll do magnesium citrate during certain parts of my cycle. I do a fermented cod liver oil/high vitamin butter oil for dental health and vitamin D and K2 (K2 is nearly absent in most people's diets, and I'm not eating as much butter as I was; and I tested way deficient in Vitamin D). I also take Inositol (vitamin B8, though it's a nonessential vitamin) for my PCOS and insulin resistance, and Phosphatidyl Serine for anxiety (which seems to be caused by elevated cortisol, since that's what it lowers and it helps).
I really appreciate your advice. I didn't know there was biotin in eggs. I do eat A LOT of them!0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »
Supplements may be of limited use but they are a hobby to me.
Interesting I'd like to hear your results on the apricot product. I'm a supplement addict so I understand. The Vitamin Shoppe is one of my fav places, I can't get enough. It doesn't have to be necessary to be beneficial.
I have to say the bitter raw apricot seeds pros and cons are hard to sort through for me. If I stop posting without warning take that as bitter raw apricot seeds may be harmful.
Since they have been used for thousands of years to reduce pain I expect to live. I think it was the cancer curing claims that some made that brought negative views about natural sources of Amygdalin containing foods.
On that note I do not think there is any cure for cancer other than our immune system. We know without question chemo and radiation can destroy our immune system which is bad for long term survival.
Amygdalin is sometimes called Vitamin 17 but 60 years later we know it is not a vitamin per se just as Vit D3 is more hormone like than a vitamin. Amygdalin per some research does boost our immune system and some think that would be how it may reduce inflammation pain or even be positive in cancer care.
As supplements go I find it interesting how for one to work a second one may be required for best result. Like if one takes Vit D3 without taking Vit K2 you may increase your odds of heart disease and bone loss. I am reading for Amygdalin to get into cells zinc is required so taking supplements can have a steep learning curve.0 -
@GaleHawkins Do you happen to have the recommended daily doses of K2 handy? I don't want to have to sort through a dozen sites to find it... Also, my D3 + K2 is just not awesome. After it's gone, I'll be looking for another form of K2 to add to my supplement list...0
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I only take folic acid, as I am not on birth control and monitor my cycle to avoid pregnancy. But accidents do happen and I'd rather be cautious.0
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@KnitOrMiss I used the product below for my source of K and take one 2x daily. I have purchased K2 only and I get with with both type 4 and 7 of K2. K2 has no level that is considered to be an overdose. Google the subject. I went this one because at the time it was my first choice.
In short Vit K2 tells Vit D where to transport Calcium to in the body. It seems to be able to remove it from arteries and heart valves and move it to bones and teeth.
The best way from my research to know if one is short on K2 levels is if one has a hard buildup on teeth that has to be scrapped off at each time one has a teeth cleaning. If K2 level is good then there will only be soft plaque to clean near the gum line.
The reason women taking calcium increases heart disease seems to be due to low Vit D/K2 levels. If K2 levels are high it prevents overdosing on Vit D as I understand it.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »@KnitOrMiss I used the product below for my source of K and take one 2x daily. I have purchased K2 only and I get with with both type 4 and 7 of K2. K2 has no level that is considered to be an overdose. Google the subject. I went this one because at the time it was my first choice.
In short Vit K2 tells Vit D where to transport Calcium to in the body. It seems to be able to remove it from arteries and heart valves and move it to bones and teeth.
The best way from my research to know if one is short on K2 levels is if one has a hard buildup on teeth that has to be scrapped off at each time one has a teeth cleaning. If K2 level is good then there will only be soft plaque to clean near the gum line.
The reason women taking calcium increases heart disease seems to be due to low Vit D/K2 levels. If K2 levels are high it prevents overdosing on Vit D as I understand it.
That's extremely interesting. I guess I'm good in general, because at my last cleaning, she said that I just needed to aim my toothbrush at my gum line, because that was the only place I was getting build up! LOL My calcium level is still low in bloodwork, but we all know that so many tests only reflect the serum level active in the blood...
My K2 I've been taking is with D3, and my old D3 was 1000 IU per drop...and this was the same brand, and I read it as 1200 IU D3 and 50 mcg per DROP, but it was per DROPPER, which is 20 drops. So, to get around 5000 IU of D3, I was using 4-5 drops, which was only actually 25% of what I thought I was getting...
So I was getting 300 I.U. of D3 roughly and 12.5 mcg of K2. Atrocious, I know!!
So, I've bought the D3 separately again, and will be seeing what other options i have for K2... I probably have the link you've posted previously on the supplement! LOL
Oh, and I don't supplement K(1)? separately. I seem to remember hearing that it was not generally deficient in the body. Do I need to have K1 and K2?0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »@KnitOrMiss I used the product below for my source of K and take one 2x daily. I have purchased K2 only and I get with with both type 4 and 7 of K2. K2 has no level that is considered to be an overdose. Google the subject. I went this one because at the time it was my first choice.
In short Vit K2 tells Vit D where to transport Calcium to in the body. It seems to be able to remove it from arteries and heart valves and move it to bones and teeth.
The best way from my research to know if one is short on K2 levels is if one has a hard buildup on teeth that has to be scrapped off at each time one has a teeth cleaning. If K2 level is good then there will only be soft plaque to clean near the gum line.
The reason women taking calcium increases heart disease seems to be due to low Vit D/K2 levels. If K2 levels are high it prevents overdosing on Vit D as I understand it.
That's extremely interesting. I guess I'm good in general, because at my last cleaning, she said that I just needed to aim my toothbrush at my gum line, because that was the only place I was getting build up! LOL My calcium level is still low in bloodwork, but we all know that so many tests only reflect the serum level active in the blood...
My K2 I've been taking is with D3, and my old D3 was 1000 IU per drop...and this was the same brand, and I read it as 1200 IU D3 and 50 mcg per DROP, but it was per DROPPER, which is 20 drops. So, to get around 5000 IU of D3, I was using 4-5 drops, which was only actually 25% of what I thought I was getting...
So I was getting 300 I.U. of D3 roughly and 12.5 mcg of K2. Atrocious, I know!!
So, I've bought the D3 separately again, and will be seeing what other options i have for K2... I probably have the link you've posted previously on the supplement! LOL
Oh, and I don't supplement K(1)? separately. I seem to remember hearing that it was not generally deficient in the body. Do I need to have K1 and K2?
If you eat leafy greens, you're very likely getting enough K1. It's pretty abundant, it's K2 that's rare, and humans suck at converting K1 to K2.
As for recommendations, I highly recommend investing in the Green Pastures FCLO/Butter Oil combination if you can swing it at all. The capsules are a 2-month supply if it's just you taking it, so keep that in mind, since the bottle's like $50, but it's so worth it in my opinion. The balance of A, D, and K2 is pretty spot-on perfect to prevent overdose of any of them.0 -
@KnitOrMiss I had to take 20,000 units of Vit D3 for nearly a year to finally get my level out of the 20's to the mid 90's. I do take K2 (menaquinone-4) at 1000 mcg and K2 (menaquinone-7) at 200 mcg daily at min. Everyone should take note of what @Dragonwolf stated about A, D and K2 balance needed and Google for more details.
Some countries focus on type 4 and others on type 7 of K2 is the reason I do both. There is no known way to OD on K2 based on the research so I often do it morning and night. Type 4 half life is only like 4 hours but type 7 is longer. The Super K with Advanced K2 Complex runs $15-$30 for 90 soft gels. I think I gave $17 per bottle a few weeks ago.
Often I use WalMart for D3 but the last I got was about $12 for a year's supply (Doctor's Best from the web). It is 5000 IU strength and 360 softgel count. Government number (USA) is 4000 IU daily. I have read repeatedly if one goes over 10,000 units daily with a good amount of K2 that you should have it checked more often.
I prefer to keep a year supply of each because of all the ton of supplements that I take I would panic without D3 and good K2. I take the K1 just because it is in the complex I take. 1000 mcg of type 4 K2 and 200 mcg of type 4 K2 is the absolute min dosage I would want to take to be effective based on my research.
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I know that sometime last year, I was taking 10,000-15,000 IU to fend off SAD (I was having undiagnosed, since resolved, sun exposure issues) and to get my levels out of gutter level low, but after a certain point, I started feeling really sick, and I started looking into it. Unconfirmed, but appeared to be overdoing that supplement, but as you said, I wasn't adding K2. Maybe I'll looking into starting all this up with holiday money. Right now it's hard enough to do what I'm doing!! I just need to figure out how to get this Rxed by my doc so I can afford to medically reimburse for all this stuff. I've got my D3 and magnesium stuff covered under that line item... 0
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There may be cheaper K2 supplements but mine is about $6 (USA) month. I did not know taking Vit D3 could lead to death if K2 was not there to protect the blood flow to the heart until about 6 months ago.
K2 seems to be key in making sure Vit D3 drives our calcium into our bones and teeth instead of our arteries and heart valves.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=H2-qqQCD4xM
This doctor from Canada does a good job about the danger misdirected calcium due to taking Vit D3 with low levels of K2. It can be watched at 1.25 or 1.5x speed.
The below link is a summary of her book about Vit K2. The right side bar has a shorter summary that you can read in 1-2 minutes.
Best of success in your efforts to protect your heart.0
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