You can still do PHUL on a deficit though!

Sumiblue wrote: »

Really? I'm not progressing with Stronglifts/ICF anymore. My deadlift is stuck at 155, squat at 110. I've been losing weight steadily for the last two months, which I'm happy about. I weigh 123 lbs now. But my progress chart for my lifts goes up and down. I feel like in order to do PHUL I will need to eat at maintenance, at least. Maybe I'm wrong and just going to a split routine will help. I do aim for 100g of protein daily-it's a chore!

Lack of progress can be caused by a few different things. It COULD be calories but it could also be the need to increase training volume. It could be lack of recovery (which could come back to calories or it could be resolved by a reduction in volume).

A simple approach could be something like this:

Am I adequately recovered?

YES--> Add training volume
NO--> Reduce training volume to improve recovery

You could add calories to improve recovery but I would only do that if the additional calories aligns with your body composition or body weight related goals.

Curious - has the weight increase on the bar for deadlifts and squats at least matched the weight decrease on the body?

Like if you lost 5 lbs off body - did weight on bar go up 5 lbs at least showing you maintained your strength?

I'm reading this and actually happen to think a program like PHUL might be exactly what you need, since you're struggling with recovery. (I have run this program when I was a beginner and just did a week of it now because I needed something to pad my training until Jan. so I'm not *just* shooting this out of my behind )

Think of it this way:

1. Instead of full body 3 times week, you'll be hitting lower and upper body twice each. So technically, you're reducing frequency.
2. As such, you will never have less than 2 days between hitting a body part = more recovery
3. You only have 1 "heavy" day per week per body part, so the 2nd session is digging into a slightly different adaptative system. It's a different training stimulus and might spark some "growth" that's been eluding you with the heavier sets because you struggle with form.
4. Adding in DB work helps stabilize and even out some things that you wouldn't notice doing barbell stuff only.

Diet-wise, if you're close to goal weight and want to recomp, I think bumping calories up by 100-200 every 2 weeks and assessing the effects can work for you in the long term.

Since that still puts you at a slight deficit, I'd stick to the lower range on number of sets, but aim to hit as many reps as possible (with good form, so perhaps sacrificing some weight at first). I'd suggest not trying to grind ANY reps for a week or two and work from there.

If you find it takes too long/is too much volume for a workout, you can always drop the assistance work (less sets on assistance work, skip the calves and the arms once a week, that kind of stuff) or superset stuff like leg curls and leg extensions (which I prefer to sub for something else most of the time because ew, machines! lol).

Speaking from experience, too: you don't want to overdo it with the hypertrophy work right off. The DOMS are... woah.

I'd say if you're bored with 5x5 you def should give PHUL (or some similar program) a go. Being in a (slight) deficit will not harm your progress that much if you play it smart

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Also hi! I've been lurking around here for a while, just figured I'd chime in (But you've seen me in the 5x5 for women group before :P)

I found that's very helpful too. I'm just finishing my first week of PHUL. Squatting heavy 3x a week was really wearing me down mentally. Even if it's maybe not 100% the optimal program for me right now I think consistency is more important and since I have been enjoying it I'm going with it. So we can be buddies Sumi!

I fully agree with @krokador on her response. It was bang on. Increase your calories by about 100-200/day for a week or 2 and see how you feel. I feel so much better after increasing my calories. Since I lift consistently, I'm following the TDEE method so I eat the same each day and my lifts are definitely benefiting from them. Don't be tough on yourself though..especially with OHP. I was stuck at 45# forever...finally worked up to 3x8 and then finally moved up to 50# working 3x4 or 3x5. It's a tough move for us, I don't try to beat myself up over it but I just look for improvements in number of reps/set or bumping up my weight once I get to the higher range of my rep goal.

Sumiblue wrote: »

I'm loving PHUL! I'm eating more and I'm still losing .5 lbs/wk. not complaining! Happy Holidays to you all! Thanks for all the guidance & advice.

That's awesome @Sumiblue ... It's great to not feel restricted, especially over the holidays

OHP is a real *kitten*. How often do you do it?

@Sumiblue ...try not to be tough on yourself and allow yourself to get well and back to eating at maintenance before going adding more weight. Once you're healthy, try playing around with increasing your reps before increasing your weight. You'll get there but you'll feel tons better about it once you're healthy and fueled with more food. I look forward to your next update!

You're doing OHP after putting a lot of energy into bench AND incline DB presses (if you're following the routine to the T). Obviously your OHP is going to suffer.

So you have 2 options:
1. Keep on dogging it the way it is. You'll have to understand that you won't be as strong as you were for a little while, but when it will come the time to test that strength on its own, you'll do TONS better at it than you expect!
2. Switch the workout order around and do OHP first, either for a definite period of time (say, a month?) or alternate every week.

There's a third option, but depending on how much you enjoy bench pressing, you may not like it:
Replace Bench with OHP, and OHP with push presses (as in, work with the rep scheme of Bench for OHP, then do push presses with the current OHP rep scheme). Only bench on hypertrophy day (I would do flat instead of incline, and maybe DB instead of a bar), if even that.

Your OHP poundage WILL get better a LOT faster, and when you go back to bench and redial in your technique, it will have also increased. But you won't be barbell benching for a while. It's a trade-off. But it can be a worthwhile one.

Have you considered "micro" increments for OHP? Or as mentioned, adding reps instead of weight. Jumping from 55 to 60lbs is huge.

Sumiblue wrote: »

I need to get fractional weights. Thanks for the reminder.

There are a number of different DIY options too. I got a pair of 1.5lb velcro ankle/wrist weights. I would wrap one around the middle of the bar for a 1.5lb jump, then one on each end for a 3lb jump. I got them at a used sporting goods store (Play-it-Again) for pretty cheap.
Here's another: http://www.diystrengthtraining.com/equipment-for-strength-training/microloading-fractional-plate-homemade/