Do I really need 6000 mg of sodium?
auntstephie321
Posts: 3,586 Member
Apparently....I have no clue what is going on. I've posted recently about sodium not seeming to help and getting brain fog after eating lunch and then going for my lunch walk.
I'm not new to keto this isn't my first time at it either, I know I'm not an expert either. But when I get fog I take extra salt using the ketoaid recipe posted here. I also take salt tabs. The last few days I've been over 6000 mg and still not feeling better.
This also comes at a time in my cycle when I'm retaining water which I know I am as the scale has new up 4 lbs this week when I know it's scientifically impossible for me to have gained 4 lbs this week.
So today I woke up with a slight headache that persisted till the afternoon. When we got home from shopping I ate and took two more salt tabs (the ones I have only have like 540 mg per tab). About twenty minutes later I had tons of energy, I started cleaning and after about an hour felt tired again. So I rested then took two more salt tabs, again twenty minutes later I was ready to clean, and I mean clean. It happened again and this time I had some ketoaid and the same thing happened. I literally just finished scrubbing the counters and cabinet doors in kitchen after doing the dishes and two loads of laundry.
Why am I needing so much sodium to get energy? And why once I get enough does it only seem to last for a short burst before I need more.
I hate to keep posting about this but I've tried googling and I suck at it because all I get is poorly written anecdotal stuff that doesn't even answer the questions I have.
I'm not new to keto this isn't my first time at it either, I know I'm not an expert either. But when I get fog I take extra salt using the ketoaid recipe posted here. I also take salt tabs. The last few days I've been over 6000 mg and still not feeling better.
This also comes at a time in my cycle when I'm retaining water which I know I am as the scale has new up 4 lbs this week when I know it's scientifically impossible for me to have gained 4 lbs this week.
So today I woke up with a slight headache that persisted till the afternoon. When we got home from shopping I ate and took two more salt tabs (the ones I have only have like 540 mg per tab). About twenty minutes later I had tons of energy, I started cleaning and after about an hour felt tired again. So I rested then took two more salt tabs, again twenty minutes later I was ready to clean, and I mean clean. It happened again and this time I had some ketoaid and the same thing happened. I literally just finished scrubbing the counters and cabinet doors in kitchen after doing the dishes and two loads of laundry.
Why am I needing so much sodium to get energy? And why once I get enough does it only seem to last for a short burst before I need more.
I hate to keep posting about this but I've tried googling and I suck at it because all I get is poorly written anecdotal stuff that doesn't even answer the questions I have.
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Replies
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I keep coming back to the same aspect of your particular physiology: didn't you mention you had low BP at one point?
Did you have any trouble managing symptoms prior to low-carb? I'm clueless about low BP. It's pretty rare in guys, apparently.0 -
Would there be any reason you'd have adrenal issues? I recently learned about aldosterone with my daughters water issues. Hers is fine but they tested it. It regulates sodium and potassium in the body and apparently can be affected by adrenal burn out/issues or whatever they called it. I didn't read to much into it since hers was fine and her sodium and potassium levels were perfect. But, it was something I wasn't familiar with so my ADD brain wouldn't leave me alone until I knew what it does and why they tested her for it. lol0
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I keep coming back to the same aspect of your particular physiology: didn't you mention you had low BP at one point?
Did you have any trouble managing symptoms prior to low-carb? I'm clueless about low BP. It's pretty rare in guys, apparently.
Never any issues with it. It's normal for me to be low the only time I have issues is when standing but I never pass out from it. I've been checking it the past couple days thinking maybe it's low and that's why I'm feeling off but it's been more normal.0 -
I keep coming back to the same aspect of your particular physiology: didn't you mention you had low BP at one point?
Did you have any trouble managing symptoms prior to low-carb? I'm clueless about low BP. It's pretty rare in guys, apparently.
Yeah, if you struggled with low BP, you might need more sodium to get it (and your energy) back up.
Another thought -- have you tried magnesium? The sodium might be helping until your system balances out again and finds the sodium/magnesium levels aren't in the right balance.0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Would there be any reason you'd have adrenal issues? I recently learned about aldosterone with my daughters water issues. Hers is fine but they tested it. It regulates sodium and potassium in the body and apparently can be affected by adrenal burn out/issues or whatever they called it. I didn't read to much into it since hers was fine and her sodium and potassium levels were perfect. But, it was something I wasn't familiar with so my ADD brain wouldn't leave me alone until I knew what it does and why they tested her for it. lol
I don't know, I've never heard of that. My Dr suspected I have IR that's why I went low carb. I have thyroid nodules but normal thyroid levels, I had been on levothyroxin to keep the nodules smaller but ran out a while ago and felt so good I kept forgetting to refill it. I wonder if that could have something to do with it. I honestly know nothing about any of this. I don't even fully understand what IR is. I'm not much of a science person
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Dragonwolf wrote: »I keep coming back to the same aspect of your particular physiology: didn't you mention you had low BP at one point?
Did you have any trouble managing symptoms prior to low-carb? I'm clueless about low BP. It's pretty rare in guys, apparently.
Yeah, if you struggled with low BP, you might need more sodium to get it (and your energy) back up.
Another thought -- have you tried magnesium? The sodium might be helping until your system balances out again and finds the sodium/magnesium levels aren't in the right balance.
I do take magnesium glycinate each night. Maybe I need more?0 -
auntstephie321 wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Would there be any reason you'd have adrenal issues? I recently learned about aldosterone with my daughters water issues. Hers is fine but they tested it. It regulates sodium and potassium in the body and apparently can be affected by adrenal burn out/issues or whatever they called it. I didn't read to much into it since hers was fine and her sodium and potassium levels were perfect. But, it was something I wasn't familiar with so my ADD brain wouldn't leave me alone until I knew what it does and why they tested her for it. lol
I don't know, I've never heard of that. My Dr suspected I have IR that's why I went low carb. I have thyroid nodules but normal thyroid levels, I had been on levothyroxin to keep the nodules smaller but ran out a while ago and felt so good I kept forgetting to refill it. I wonder if that could have something to do with it. I honestly know nothing about any of this. I don't even fully understand what IR is. I'm not much of a science person
Which "thyroid" levels? Just TSH? Or were T3, T4, and reverse T3 tested? TSH results in a number of false negatives for thyroid issues, because it can be "normal" and the others be off. It might be a good idea to get those tested.0 -
Might need more magnesium. I've heard from many of the people interviewed on the various podcasts I listen to that you should increase magnesium until you reach the point where it causes a digestive response. Then back off by one tablet. Because until you reach that point, your body is actually able to use all of it.0
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Dragonwolf wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Would there be any reason you'd have adrenal issues? I recently learned about aldosterone with my daughters water issues. Hers is fine but they tested it. It regulates sodium and potassium in the body and apparently can be affected by adrenal burn out/issues or whatever they called it. I didn't read to much into it since hers was fine and her sodium and potassium levels were perfect. But, it was something I wasn't familiar with so my ADD brain wouldn't leave me alone until I knew what it does and why they tested her for it. lol
I don't know, I've never heard of that. My Dr suspected I have IR that's why I went low carb. I have thyroid nodules but normal thyroid levels, I had been on levothyroxin to keep the nodules smaller but ran out a while ago and felt so good I kept forgetting to refill it. I wonder if that could have something to do with it. I honestly know nothing about any of this. I don't even fully understand what IR is. I'm not much of a science person
Which "thyroid" levels? Just TSH? Or were T3, T4, and reverse T3 tested? TSH results in a number of false negatives for thyroid issues, because it can be "normal" and the others be off. It might be a good idea to get those tested.
They tested everything. Also had several ultrasounds and a radioactive iodine test. My Dr put me on the levo based on my symptoms not the test results. Plus the nodules, she said it may help prevent them from getting larger as the thyroid wouldn't be producing as much hormone. I should probably start taking it again whether it's related or not.0 -
Sodium is a band-aid, and the fact that it works for you, even for a little while, tells you that the source of your brain fog is low blood volume.
You need more sodium than most because of your low BP. Even a slight loss of fluids for you is going to be a problem.
You should ask your doc about possible fixes for the underlying low BP condition. It could be thyroid. In any case, I'd try to focus on the cause rather than band-aids.
BTW, it drives me nuts that any of us need the sodium band-aid. I wonder if we eventually adapt out of it. Phinney says he still gets his sodium fix from broth after many years of being in ketosis. That just seems very odd to me.0 -
BTW, it drives me nuts that any of us need the sodium band-aid. I wonder if we eventually adapt out of it. Phinney says he still gets his sodium fix from broth after many years of being in ketosis. That just seems very odd to me.
I think we do eventually adapt out of it. I do know people who eat plain, unsalted, meat as their only food source (no seasoning and nothing but water). They don't have issues with low sodium. But, during the adaptation phase, I think it can still be helpful for a lot of people. Even after that, I would probably taper off and not go cold turkey. That just makes it easy on your body to adapt to not flushing so much. Personally, I like salt. So, I am not trying to go salt free at this time.0 -
I wonder the same thing, so these are very interesting responses to me.0
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Sodium is a band-aid, and the fact that it works for you, even for a little while, tells you that the source of your brain fog is low blood volume.
You need more sodium than most because of your low BP. Even a slight loss of fluids for you is going to be a problem.
You should ask your doc about possible fixes for the underlying low BP condition. It could be thyroid. In any case, I'd try to focus on the cause rather than band-aids.
BTW, it drives me nuts that any of us need the sodium band-aid. I wonder if we eventually adapt out of it. Phinney says he still gets his sodium fix from broth after many years of being in ketosis. That just seems very odd to me.
This makes so much sense. Also explains why I'm so dehydrated after just one glass of wine these days. Thank you.
My bp also drops in stressful situations instead of going up like others may experience. So I'll have to check it after my walks and see if maybe that's dropping it too. In the meantime I'll just keep upping my sodium and try more mag to see if I can level out.
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I definitely don't need salt like I once did. I rarely drink broth anymore. I've been able to stay good with just the foods I eat and salt I like I them. Every once in a while I will feel the need for broth.
But, I don't drink a lot of water or do any exercise except occasionally.
Of course, I take a high dose of magnesium too.0 -
Yep I just finished planks and could feel my brain zoning out. Bp dropped down to 99/66. I imagine it's probably doing the same thing after my walks causing the fog.0
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@wabmester to the rescue!
I got my dad started on sodium and magnesium to help with his low blood pressure it definitely helped him. Though I think he needs more. But he is hung up a little on the too much salt is bad idea and sort of doubts that taking more magnesium than the bottle says is actually ok. I'm working on him.0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »@wabmester to the rescue!
I got my dad started on sodium and magnesium to help with his low blood pressure it definitely helped him. Though I think he needs more. But he is hung up a little on the too much salt is bad idea and sort of doubts that taking more magnesium than the bottle says is actually ok. I'm working on him.
Good luck lol. Before I did low carb I always used way more salt than most people. Must be my body just knows it needs it. People would always give me strange looks and some would comment about not eating too much sodium because it causes high bp. I'd always just tell them that's not actually how it works, if it was I'd have higher bp than everyone I know. Yet they would still warn me each time. A lot of people have really been brain washed. It's hard to break that mindset.0 -
I would refill the levothyroxine, and see if it does help level you out. Hormones control every body function. When they are out of balance it just throws everything off!
I was hoping to not need as many supplements after being LCHF for almost a year, but I'm not having any luck with that! Missed one, of three, salt tablets yesterday and I woke with leg cramps this morning!!
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I'm really beyond frustrated with this. When I feel good I feel amazing. But its not consistent enough. I currently have a really low level headache and feel like I took a Benadryl. I just keep taking sodium potassium and magnesium and it is not going away.
I'm starting to worry that I'm damaging my body with this all, I can not fathom that 7000mg + of sodium a day is necessary. What else could it be? What am I missing? I want to do this and I feel my best when I'm low carb except when I have the fog. I don't know if i'll ever adjust at this point as it feels like this has been going on for weeks, and it was like this the first time but I never realized I needed more sodium, I just gave up and upped my carbs. When I do that though it spirals out of control and I start feeling like garbage in other regards.0 -
I'm too much of a newbie with this WOE to give advice, but so sorry to hear you are feeling this way. I have low blood pressure too, so am listening intently to the advice everyone is giving.0
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Causes of low blood pressure
Endocrine problems
Such problems include complications with hormone-producing glands in the body's endocrine systems; specifically, an under-active thyroid (hypothyroidism), parathyroid disease, adrenal insufficiency (Addison's disease), low blood sugar and, in some cases, diabetes.0 -
I didn't know you had thyroid problems... You absolutely should get that sorted out first. A thyroid issue can just screw up everything. I was hyperthyroid, which couldn't be controlled with meds so I had my thyroid killed, which caused me to be hypothyroid (the expected result) and until the meds were sorted out it was a horrible time of being exhausted/brain fog/depressed.0
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Yes I've started taking my levo again so hopefully that'll help. I did discover I think that the salt tabs I have are worthless garbage and misrepresent the amount of sodium they contain. I'm really kind of irritated about it right now. But I think I might be on the path of things making sense.0
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I think getting back on your medicine is good, but may take a bit of an adjustment period (as always right?), but it may not. I'm sure that will depend on how long it's been since you took it regularly. Hopefully this might resolve some things for you!
When did you last have a physical, with lab work (not just thyroid levels)? It sounds like more than just an electrolyte issue to me. The supplementing is giving you a band aid, but not fixing the root cause. I agree with @wabmester on the endocrine recommendation too. You may need more extensive testing to rule out adrenal glands, or parathyroid glands, hyper, or hypo, levels!
Gosh chick, I wish there was always an easy answer for things! I hope you find a resolution soon!0 -
auntstephie321 wrote: »Yes I've started taking my levo again so hopefully that'll help. I did discover I think that the salt tabs I have are worthless garbage and misrepresent the amount of sodium they contain. I'm really kind of irritated about it right now. But I think I might be on the path of things making sense.
Remember that if you're off for more than a handful of days, it can take 90 days to adjust to your med or a new level of the med. By any chance, are you having any swelling hands/feet, etc. Apparently that's a huge sign that you need to adjust (up) the dose/strength of your thyroid meds... @auntstephie321
I've been struggling so so so so SO much with electrolytes and hydration this time around, too, and I've no idea why. Nothing is categorically different. GRR. Sodium pills = cracked lips even over 100 oz of water. No sodium pills equal weird facial flushing and strangeness. Added back in potassium (lite salt), and temporarily increased magnesium, didn't help...
I get bloodwork and such with my endo in April, I think... That seems so far away, but I know it really isn't.0 -
No swelling at all. I'm on the lowest dose there is I go for blood work and another ultrasound in June I think. I'll have to check for sure.
I had a cup of broth and it cleared up the fog but now I'm having very loose watery stool I'm assuming from you much sodium. I'm going to not take the salt pills tomorrow and see how things go with just using sodium.0 -
This is interesting. I have low BP, too (and a vasovagal response; just curious if you have that too since you mentioned your BP dropping when stressed) and I probably need to be even more consistent about increased sodium since my energy levels are up and down. I am followed by a cardiologist for this; I'll see him tomorrow for the first time since starting this WOE. I'm curious to see what he'll think. (For one thing he'll be happy I've increased my sodium.
He's probably going to think LCHF is nuts ... Largely because he also sees my husband, who has CAD and high BP, and will want to make sure I'm not feeding him what I eat! :tongue ) 0 -
Not that I know of. I've never fainted but had a few times it was close. Whenever I'm under a lot of stress or if I'm in a situation that is getting me worked up I start to get really cold and trembly and sweaty which is strange because I'm cold. I can't remember what my mom called it but when I was a kid our home burned down and I went into shock, I was shaking and cold and low bp ended up having to go to the hospital. So it's apparently how my body deals with stressful situations I guess. Now when it happens it's not nearly what it was that time but same type of thing much smaller scale.0
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