A cardiologist tries keto and ...
wabmester
Posts: 2,748 Member
FAILS!
Kind of sad. He tried it with good intentions so he could advise patients. Then he bailed after a week due to the "keto flu."
https://theskepticalcardiologist.com/2016/04/21/adventures-in-ketoland-or-how-i-learned-to-love-the-purple-stick/
https://theskepticalcardiologist.com/2016/04/30/a-farewell-to-ketosis-banting-dickens-and-the-roots-of-atkins/
Kind of sad. He tried it with good intentions so he could advise patients. Then he bailed after a week due to the "keto flu."
https://theskepticalcardiologist.com/2016/04/21/adventures-in-ketoland-or-how-i-learned-to-love-the-purple-stick/
https://theskepticalcardiologist.com/2016/04/30/a-farewell-to-ketosis-banting-dickens-and-the-roots-of-atkins/
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Wow! You would think a cardiologist might make the association between his suddenly low blood pressure, low blood volume and sodium...
Freakin genius!
I truly wish the term "Keto flu" would die already!
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I feel like a quick Google search could have prevented this if his own medical training didn't. Sad lol5
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That's a shame. And instead of buying a pamphlet that's over 100 years old, he should have bought The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living! Then he would have known how to combat the weakness and lethargy from the fluid loss. And how sad that he saw the need to reduce his BP meds as a bad thing! I was thrilled to drop my diuretic in the first week.
Ultimately it sounded like he was saying that it was just too tough to stick with, that he didn't want to have to be bothered with carb counting and didn't want to give up alcohol.
Losing weight takes a lot more work and effort than gaining it. It makes me so sad when drs say eating this way is too hard to stick with, so they don't recommend it. What diet is easy???? "Moderation" sure as heck isn't easy, nor is eating a "balanced" diet. And quite frankly compared to any other woe this is about as easy as it gets, and I've tried just about everything.
Can we schedule a group conference call with him and set him straight?13 -
I think we should have his mail address so we can help him.
I felt grim for one day, then it was like a flick of a switch, bouncing out of bed. The best thing for me though is the fact that I'm less grouchy, I don't get angry because I'm not tired! The most insane things wound me up. I'm stressed at times but not bonkers.8 -
he should have logged on here, he wouldn't have failed, and he would have seen how many people have had fantastic results, with heart problems and weight problems, and so many other problems3
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I made a comment to his post yesterday about the sodium and it's never shown up on the blog. I even got a confirmation email...3
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I made a comment to his post yesterday about the sodium and it's never shown up on the blog. I even got a confirmation email...
& this comes as a shock...
Tried a new brand of spicy dill pickles,
didn't like the pickles, loved the juice.
or 
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So, in other work, he didn't really "try". He gave it a few days and gave up.3
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I read both posts and my immediate take on it was his lack of seriousness about keto and more interest in writing an amusing blog post. It would be great if he would seriously pursue/learn about LCHF so he could be of real help to his clients. They're in a real life/death situation for which he could offer true help.
Anyone remember the doctor who used to post on this forum? Wonder what happened to him....5 -
I thought I'd share my comment to his blog that is awaiting moderation. Somehow I doubt it will be posted...
"The so-called "low carb flu" is completely avoidable by paying close attention to one's electrolytes. Since carbohydrates require the body to hold in excess water to process them, as well as a ton of other vitamins an minerals, it is easy to see why the body begins dumping excess water held that is no longer needed. Of course, since electrolytes are a very delicate balance, as even Gatorade ads would show us, once water is being dumped, sodium begins to dump as well, and without replenishment of both on a regular basis, so do magnesium (in which most people are already woefully deficient due to soil depletion, restricted diets, GMO's, pesticides, etc.) and potassium, both of which are critical in heart health.
This dumping/balance process increases muscle fatigue, as your muscle mitochondria is being changed to work on ketones instead of or in addition to glucose. While this does cause a temporary decrease in performance, once the conversion process is completed, the upper ceiling on performance is raised dramatically, leaving far more potential for improved athletic performance. This is particularly accurate since as long as the athlete has stored body fat, s/he may continue the performance without having to refuel, as ketones may continue to be produced, whereas the body will eventually run out of glucose stores.
Since you wouldn't run your car's engine at hard and heavy exertion while you are in the middle of rebuilding it, why so would you expect to be able to continue to perform exercise at previous levels while you are rebuilding your body's internal engine? Also, why are the only resources you referenced in this journey woefully outdated? Without additional information that has been added to more recent version of a LCHFMP (low carb, high fat, moderate protein) dietary plan, you essentially took a "knife to a gun fight." I prefer to be properly armed in the battle for my health and long life!"11 -
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FAILS!
Kind of sad. He tried it with good intentions so he could advise patients. Then he bailed after a week due to the "keto flu."
https://theskepticalcardiologist.com/2016/04/21/adventures-in-ketoland-or-how-i-learned-to-love-the-purple-stick/
https://theskepticalcardiologist.com/2016/04/30/a-farewell-to-ketosis-banting-dickens-and-the-roots-of-atkins/
I bet that guy chastises his clients for not "sticking with" diets he recommends.
Pot, meet Kettle.
Pfft.
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I'm sure keto would have worked for him if it came with a steady stream of income for him. Meanwhile, the pharmaceuticals continue to line his pockets. Sad when doctors aren't really wanting to help patients.5
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Ugh. Reading this, literally within the first minute of reading I come across the words 'Fanatical devotion' and 'Meticulous' and 'dreaded'. Why does everyone want to paint people who eat low carb as bat *kitten* crazy? Another writer I follow does the same thing, equating paleo diets to religious zealotry and stating that people who follow them are 'fanatical in their devotion to Gary Taubes'. I'm not a fanatic. I'm no where close to a religious zealot. I've tried moderation, tried eating all those healthy foods and doing it 'the right way, just cut back a little, make healthy choices 90% of the time and the weight will come off' and it just doesn't work for me. This does. 2 months and 25 pounds later, and every one of these anti low carb people would say 'oh its because of your calorie restriction, not low carb'. Which is fine, but low carb makes calorie restriction natural, even easy to do, instead of the constant starving -> denial cycle of dieting 'the healthy way'.
Sorry this is a little ranty but I just get so tired of seeing people who eat low carb treated like they are morons who worship at a temple of false science.13 -
Aw, I should have copied my response before hitting the "submit" button. I basically said the same thing about the sodium, though.
Did anyone else notice that one of the other issues of his fatigue may have been lack of food in general? The numbers he gives for fat and carbs in his first post only come out to about 1200 calories. If we assume the same amount of protein as fat, that only puts him at 1700 calories. Given that he's male, is at least reasonably active (I assume part of his day is on his feet, and at the very least, he does at least some moderate working out, per his comments), and isn't looking to lose weight, he's probably a good 1000 calories short of his maintenance requirements. And that counts neither the additional 1-200 calories many people "gain" from being keto, nor the extra demands from switching to a new fuel source.
Yet he wonders why he's tired.1 -
All of our comments just posted. I just saw Wab's, Sunny's, and DW's.
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I've tried moderation, tried eating all those healthy foods and doing it 'the right way, just cut back a little, make healthy choices 90% of the time and the weight will come off' and it just doesn't work for me. This does.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/health/biggest-loser-weight-loss.html?smid=nytcore-ipad-share&smprod=nytcore-ipad&_r=1
As the Biggest Loser SERIOUS follow up studies shows VL calorie/high exercise diet permanently LOWERS metabolism til you are trapped forever eating burning FEWER calories
( 400-800 LESS than anyone else!!! ) and are stuck being hungry and jogging for life.
(9+ hours per week very active exercise recommended...who can do that??? people working/busy with family or >50 don't have much chance unless crazy dedicated!)
LCHF truly is the only option to that strict diet life that 99% just won't do.
in 2015 I started Jan 1 with an IF regimen, but not low carb, Feb 1 I began traditional Keto/VLC and lost 15 pounds in 2 months, then switched to vegetarian LC <50 carbs,(for kidney health) and dropped another 15 in 2 months.
I am pretty sure it was the change to IF FIRST that helped get over the drop in sugar (and I definitely am addicted to sugar!) NO Keto flu…so I recommend that for newbies to LC.
FAILURE WITH "HEALTHY PLATE" -I did stick to a 1400-1500 USDA higher carb diet with lots of oranges and Cheerios, etc..and after 16 MONTHS had almost ZERO results, so I quit in frustration. Quickly gained because I began eating sugar again… so this WOE can work, and seems to do well for younger people who have not wrecked their bodies with decades of crazy diets.
Going to 1200 calories, sure that will work for loss, but I'd be miserable and hungry even with keto, and possibly mess up my bad metabolism further.
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All of this. Sodium, plus making sure to get adequate potassium and magnesium would have helped him give it a more realistic shot.0
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KETOGENICGURL wrote: »
Going to 1200 calories, sure that will work for loss, but I'd be miserable and hungry even with keto, and possibly mess up my bad metabolism further.
Honestly, some days I'm sub 1200. Some days I'm sub 1000 if I just don't feel like eating. Then other days I will eat somewhere in the neighborhood of 2000 calories because I'm just hungry. It hasn't seemed to impact much, and hopefully eating 'just when hungry' doesn't do much metabolic damage. I read that New York Times article a few days ago, and it really would have been disheartening... if I wasn't losing weight without hunger. Going up to maintenance, even if it is 400 to 800 calories less then what a normal person would burn doesn't seem that daunting when you think of it that way, honestly.
This doctor made it so much more complicated then necessary. Complaining about having to be so meticulous and how even cauliflower put him over his carbs. Apparently he wasn't looking at net carbs, because I'm fairly certain 3 of his 5 cauliflower carbs would have been fiber. Plus... where was the cheese sauce for that? Instead of worrying about his 'keto friendly casserole' he should have just had a big ribeye with butter and lots of salt.
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Aschindler412 wrote: »Ugh. Reading this, literally within the first minute of reading I come across the words 'Fanatical devotion' and 'Meticulous' and 'dreaded'. Why does everyone want to paint people who eat low carb as bat *kitten* crazy? Another writer I follow does the same thing, equating paleo diets to religious zealotry and stating that people who follow them are 'fanatical in their devotion to Gary Taubes'. I'm not a fanatic. I'm no where close to a religious zealot. I've tried moderation, tried eating all those healthy foods and doing it 'the right way, just cut back a little, make healthy choices 90% of the time and the weight will come off' and it just doesn't work for me. This does. 2 months and 25 pounds later, and every one of these anti low carb people would say 'oh its because of your calorie restriction, not low carb'. Which is fine, but low carb makes calorie restriction natural, even easy to do, instead of the constant starving -> denial cycle of dieting 'the healthy way'.
Sorry this is a little ranty but I just get so tired of seeing people who eat low carb treated like they are morons who worship at a temple of false science.
2 months and 25lbs! Wow. Good for you. Awesome.2 -
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Yeah that's awesome! I bet you feel great! I know I do, I lost 10lb in 4/5 weeks.
I love how some days I can wake and not be hungry, or be a little and just have a coffee with a shed load of double cream (read 100ml).
Today I didn't eat until evening meal. Didn't need to. I've walked 4.2 miles to take my boy to swimming class - with a trike and a bag full of all sorts (he's 2). I've also been to the gym and done strong lifts 5x5.0 -
@KenSmith108 That should be my next tattoo!
Very twee but also reflects my love of salt.0 -
Aschindler412 wrote: »KETOGENICGURL wrote: »
Going to 1200 calories, sure that will work for loss, but I'd be miserable and hungry even with keto, and possibly mess up my bad metabolism further.
Honestly, some days I'm sub 1200. Some days I'm sub 1000 if I just don't feel like eating. Then other days I will eat somewhere in the neighborhood of 2000 calories because I'm just hungry. It hasn't seemed to impact much, and hopefully eating 'just when hungry' doesn't do much metabolic damage. I read that New York Times article a few days ago, and it really would have been disheartening... if I wasn't losing weight without hunger. Going up to maintenance, even if it is 400 to 800 calories less then what a normal person would burn doesn't seem that daunting when you think of it that way, honestly.
This doctor made it so much more complicated then necessary. Complaining about having to be so meticulous and how even cauliflower put him over his carbs. Apparently he wasn't looking at net carbs, because I'm fairly certain 3 of his 5 cauliflower carbs would have been fiber. Plus... where was the cheese sauce for that? Instead of worrying about his 'keto friendly casserole' he should have just had a big ribeye with butter and lots of salt.
He went into it with a mindset for failure. I'm not sure why he expected anything else with an attitude like that.2 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »All of our comments just posted. I just saw Wab's, Sunny's, and DW's.
Woot! Now, the next million-dollar question -- will he respond?2 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »All of our comments just posted. I just saw Wab's, Sunny's, and DW's.
Woot! Now, the next million-dollar question -- will he respond?
LOL My guess is no.0 -
I feel like a quick Google search could have prevented this if his own medical training didn't. Sad lol
Huh, you are obviously operating under the delusion that "medical training" for doctors ever mentions the word "nutrition." As I've posted elsewhere, doctors have a vested interest in writing prescriptions, ordering expensive lab tests and cutting people up with knives. Thinking about nutrition -- not so much. Until ranchers and farmers start offering kickbacks (oh, beg pardon, "professional remuneration") nothing will change.
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I was amazed today listening to the radio, and the health section had a doctor, and two other people,( missed their qualifications) on promoting the keto diet. They were explaining that far too many have fallen into the trap of low fat, that fat is GOOD, that the evil substance is sugar and it's hidden everywhere . They also were saying that a keto diet is a good diet to battle some cancer, ( they couldn't commit to all ). Also our local gp put my friend on a keto diet for her polycystic ovary problems. This guy should try a trip to Ireland and ask an irish cardiologist how to handle the diet.3
