Stop lying to myself
nossmf
Posts: 11,689 Member
I've been lifting now for going on 7 years, completely self-taught from books, magazines and the internet.
This entire time I've been bench pressing with my elbows pretty flared out. I worked my way up to a 285# bench, which I felt justifiably proud of, especially considering I was BW 185 at the time.
Here's the rub, though... the bar didn't come all the way down to my chest. Due to limited shoulder flexibility, I only lowered the bar until my upper arms were parallel with the floor, which left the bar several inches away from making contact with my torso. I felt it was a justified compromise, since the bar still moved through a large range of motion, and I'd read an article somewhere where an expert said what I was doing was ok.
But I've been feeling a tad guilty for a while, and it crystallized the other day when the dude on the bench next to me was doing multiple sets for reps at 315+. All the way down, touch chest and pause, then back up. The kicker: he didn't look much bigger than me, and I'm struggling at 225.
That does it, I need to do it right or not at all. Since my shoulder flexibility isn't going to improve overnight, the easiest way seems to be tucking my elbows closer to the torso, bringing the bar lower on my torso. Yes, I am aware this is really the suggested way of benching, but I was stuck in a rut of pride where I didn't want to lower poundage.
Perhaps it's getting older, or the shoulder injury from last summer, but I'm finally willing to do what is needed to do it right. So rather than working up to 225 for sets of 3-5, I set the load to 135 for three sets of ten, concentrating on keeping elbows tucked and moving slowly.
Good news: by shifting lower on my torso, I was able to lower the bar all the way to my body.
Bad news: I'm glad I set the bar at 135, because holy cow, I felt so much weaker, especially by rep 8-10. (This same weight with my old method was a breeze.)
Not sure if I'm doing it right finally considering how severe the drop-off of strength, but I do know I never felt a thing in my shoulders, so that's gotta be a good sign, right?
This entire time I've been bench pressing with my elbows pretty flared out. I worked my way up to a 285# bench, which I felt justifiably proud of, especially considering I was BW 185 at the time.
Here's the rub, though... the bar didn't come all the way down to my chest. Due to limited shoulder flexibility, I only lowered the bar until my upper arms were parallel with the floor, which left the bar several inches away from making contact with my torso. I felt it was a justified compromise, since the bar still moved through a large range of motion, and I'd read an article somewhere where an expert said what I was doing was ok.
But I've been feeling a tad guilty for a while, and it crystallized the other day when the dude on the bench next to me was doing multiple sets for reps at 315+. All the way down, touch chest and pause, then back up. The kicker: he didn't look much bigger than me, and I'm struggling at 225.
That does it, I need to do it right or not at all. Since my shoulder flexibility isn't going to improve overnight, the easiest way seems to be tucking my elbows closer to the torso, bringing the bar lower on my torso. Yes, I am aware this is really the suggested way of benching, but I was stuck in a rut of pride where I didn't want to lower poundage.
Perhaps it's getting older, or the shoulder injury from last summer, but I'm finally willing to do what is needed to do it right. So rather than working up to 225 for sets of 3-5, I set the load to 135 for three sets of ten, concentrating on keeping elbows tucked and moving slowly.
Good news: by shifting lower on my torso, I was able to lower the bar all the way to my body.
Bad news: I'm glad I set the bar at 135, because holy cow, I felt so much weaker, especially by rep 8-10. (This same weight with my old method was a breeze.)
Not sure if I'm doing it right finally considering how severe the drop-off of strength, but I do know I never felt a thing in my shoulders, so that's gotta be a good sign, right?
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Replies
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I bet it improves rapidly if you train it often and take it slowly1
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You'll be fine. I went through an issue where I hurt my shoulder (working on my wife's car) and had to swallow my ego and re-learn how to bench perfectly every time or I kept reaggravating the injury. This meant massive deloading.
Within 6 months not only had I not reinjured myself once, but I managed to bench a new PR by 30lbs (325 vs 295).
Perfecting technique is never a bad thing. I'm doing it with squats now and I'm super, super weak (shooting for 245x5 tonight when I have done nearly 400lbs a few months ago). I'm thinking by the end of the year I will be setting a new PR there too.0 -
If it makes you feel any better, I'm relearning how to deadlift and I seriously am struggling with 365 now0
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If it makes you feel any better, I'm relearning how to deadlift and I seriously am struggling with 365 now
It makes me feel better, yes
Good luck btw, maybe we can both shore up our weaknesses in the coming months. I've always figured you'd do well with a more Chris Duffin style deadlift. Especially with your strong squat.0 -
If it makes you feel any better, I'm relearning how to deadlift and I seriously am struggling with 365 now
It makes me feel better, yes
Good luck btw, maybe we can both shore up our weaknesses in the coming months. I've always figured you'd do well with a more Chris Duffin style deadlift. Especially with your strong squat.
I've seen him on Youtube I think, but I don't recall how he pulls.
Aside (brag): Nailed 370x8 squat yesterday which was a HUGE pr for me. Expected 4-5 and just kept going.1 -
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If it makes you feel any better, I'm relearning how to deadlift and I seriously am struggling with 365 now
It makes me feel better, yes
Good luck btw, maybe we can both shore up our weaknesses in the coming months. I've always figured you'd do well with a more Chris Duffin style deadlift. Especially with your strong squat.
I've seen him on Youtube I think, but I don't recall how he pulls.
Aside (brag): Nailed 370x8 squat yesterday which was a HUGE pr for me. Expected 4-5 and just kept going.
It's worth looking into. He's a stronger squatter like you (has done 880 @ 220) and he basically squats his deadlifts. Sumo stance, hips as close to the bar as possible (really low and forward towards the bar), torso super vertical. Really uses that quad strength and cuts down on ROM. I've tried it and it's great and efficient except I have zero quads and thus my pull is super weak that way. Instead, I basically conventional deadlift in a sumo stance, hips higher, big hip hinge action and it works for me (strong posterior chain).
In fact, the reason I think my squats have sucked so much is because I try to deadlift my squats. When lowering into the hole I lean way too far forward, sticking my butt out and try to deadlift out of the hole (basically, ends up looking like a good morning). It worked because of my strong posterior chain but it's killing my lower back. Progress is slow because I've got no quad involvement. Trying to turn that around now.
Also, sick work. You must be around a mid 400 squat at this point?0 -
I hate to have to back off a lift... i'm doing it with OHP now. But given the alternative of not progressing at all... I'll take it.0
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I hate to have to back off a lift... i'm doing it with OHP now. But given the alternative of not progressing at all... I'll take it.0
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If it makes you feel any better, I'm relearning how to deadlift and I seriously am struggling with 365 now
It makes me feel better, yes
Good luck btw, maybe we can both shore up our weaknesses in the coming months. I've always figured you'd do well with a more Chris Duffin style deadlift. Especially with your strong squat.
I've seen him on Youtube I think, but I don't recall how he pulls.
Aside (brag): Nailed 370x8 squat yesterday which was a HUGE pr for me. Expected 4-5 and just kept going.
It's worth looking into. He's a stronger squatter like you (has done 880 @ 220) and he basically squats his deadlifts. Sumo stance, hips as close to the bar as possible (really low and forward towards the bar), torso super vertical. Really uses that quad strength and cuts down on ROM. I've tried it and it's great and efficient except I have zero quads and thus my pull is super weak that way. Instead, I basically conventional deadlift in a sumo stance, hips higher, big hip hinge action and it works for me (strong posterior chain).
In fact, the reason I think my squats have sucked so much is because I try to deadlift my squats. When lowering into the hole I lean way too far forward, sticking my butt out and try to deadlift out of the hole (basically, ends up looking like a good morning). It worked because of my strong posterior chain but it's killing my lower back. Progress is slow because I've got no quad involvement. Trying to turn that around now.
Also, sick work. You must be around a mid 400 squat at this point?
Problem I seem to have is that I can't get my hips low due to segment lengths
Also I'm totally a head case on deads now because of all my frustrations.
It's quite the pathetic sight lol
My plan now is to stick with lower loads and high frequency and just try to build volume for a while but to stay in a threshold before any form breakdown occurs.
I'll probably only pull heavy once every two weeks. I have a hunch that I just need longer periods of time anytime I go north of 85% or so, because potato.
Last meet I squatted 451 but it came as a complete surprise, it was a good 20 pounds heavier than I expected and 5 pounds heavier than my previous PR. I was injured for part of the training block so I did not expect a PR.
370×8 at RPE nine calcs to 476 but you and I both know that that calculator is often quite a bit off in the higher rep ranges .
I'd be happy getting to somewhere in the 460s this year0 -
If it makes you feel any better, I'm relearning how to deadlift and I seriously am struggling with 365 now
It makes me feel better, yes
Good luck btw, maybe we can both shore up our weaknesses in the coming months. I've always figured you'd do well with a more Chris Duffin style deadlift. Especially with your strong squat.
I've seen him on Youtube I think, but I don't recall how he pulls.
Aside (brag): Nailed 370x8 squat yesterday which was a HUGE pr for me. Expected 4-5 and just kept going.
It's worth looking into. He's a stronger squatter like you (has done 880 @ 220) and he basically squats his deadlifts. Sumo stance, hips as close to the bar as possible (really low and forward towards the bar), torso super vertical. Really uses that quad strength and cuts down on ROM. I've tried it and it's great and efficient except I have zero quads and thus my pull is super weak that way. Instead, I basically conventional deadlift in a sumo stance, hips higher, big hip hinge action and it works for me (strong posterior chain).
In fact, the reason I think my squats have sucked so much is because I try to deadlift my squats. When lowering into the hole I lean way too far forward, sticking my butt out and try to deadlift out of the hole (basically, ends up looking like a good morning). It worked because of my strong posterior chain but it's killing my lower back. Progress is slow because I've got no quad involvement. Trying to turn that around now.
Also, sick work. You must be around a mid 400 squat at this point?
Problem I seem to have is that I can't get my hips low due to segment lengths
Also I'm totally a head case on deads now because of all my frustrations.
It's quite the pathetic sight lol
My plan now is to stick with lower loads and high frequency and just try to build volume for a while but to stay in a threshold before any form breakdown occurs.
I'll probably only pull heavy once every two weeks. I have a hunch that I just need longer periods of time anytime I go north of 85% or so, because potato.
Last meet I squatted 451 but it came as a complete surprise, it was a good 20 pounds heavier than I expected and 5 pounds heavier than my previous PR. I was injured for part of the training block so I did not expect a PR.
370×8 at RPE nine calcs to 476 but you and I both know that that calculator is often quite a bit off in the higher rep ranges .
I'd be happy getting to somewhere in the 460s this year
Well, good luck. I feel your pain, every squat session is a lesson in frustration and I've probably watched/read 400 squat guides to try to really make it click for me. Sooner or later I'll get somewhere.1 -
Thanks for the cheerleading. I'm going to work on building my bench up slowly so I don't unconsciously slip back into a habit of flaring my elbows as the weight goes up. I have a bad habit of letting form slip as weight gets higher, especially on my deadlift. I've actually had a trainer look at my form while pulling, and at light weights I'm apparently dead on. Then the trainer walks away (unpaid), I up the weight, and problems happen. Some day I'll have the cash to pay a trainer to help me at higher weight as well.
At least my squats are still strong. I currently am not going above sets of 10 at 315, but last summer I squatted 475. A buddy watched and said it was ugly as all get out, but legal. I had hoped to break 500 with that fifth plate, but one lift at a time, and right now it's bench.1
