Utterly confused! Can someone help?
sharleni
Posts: 9 Member
Hiya
So I've been trying to follow a calorie counting diet for about a month or two but I'm failing miserably. I'm 5ft, 8st 12lb and I want to lose the fat. I was supposed to be on 1200 cal a day, but I feel like I'm really struggling. And I've lost all the weight before (a year ago and put it back on), got to 8st and still felt skinny fat. I want to try and do it correctly this time.
So I've used the calculator, and my BMR is 1341, and TDEE is 1844. So my cut value at 15% is 1567. This is based on light activity (two spin classes a week ideally). However my query is when I've put in 8st 12 lb into the calculator it changes it to 8.1 which isn't right. So my only option is to put 9st in. Will that be okay?
Then should I now start aiming for 1567 cals a day and continue with my activity and maybe swap some cardio for lifting? I'm not convinced I burn 1844 daily (I'm basing this on my fitbit so maybe that's wrong), or maybe I've misunderstood? Help!
So I've been trying to follow a calorie counting diet for about a month or two but I'm failing miserably. I'm 5ft, 8st 12lb and I want to lose the fat. I was supposed to be on 1200 cal a day, but I feel like I'm really struggling. And I've lost all the weight before (a year ago and put it back on), got to 8st and still felt skinny fat. I want to try and do it correctly this time.
So I've used the calculator, and my BMR is 1341, and TDEE is 1844. So my cut value at 15% is 1567. This is based on light activity (two spin classes a week ideally). However my query is when I've put in 8st 12 lb into the calculator it changes it to 8.1 which isn't right. So my only option is to put 9st in. Will that be okay?
Then should I now start aiming for 1567 cals a day and continue with my activity and maybe swap some cardio for lifting? I'm not convinced I burn 1844 daily (I'm basing this on my fitbit so maybe that's wrong), or maybe I've misunderstood? Help!
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Replies
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Actually this looks a bit more like it. Found a different calculator through reading more posts
Your Results
Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR)
1209 from Mifflin-St Jeor formula based on gender, age, weight, height
Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) 1689 based on your weekly activity averaged to a daily level with a BMR activity factor of 1.4
10% Deficit for last 10 lbs 169 0.2 kgs expected weekly fat loss (not always weight loss)
15% Deficit 253 0.2 kgs expected weekly fat loss (not always weight loss)
20% Deficit for over 60 lbs 338 0.3 kgs expected weekly fat loss (not always weight loss)
Total Daily Eating Goal (TDEG) 10% 1520
Total Daily Eating Goal (TDEG) 15% 1436
Total Daily Eating Goal (TDEG) 20% 1351
If you do more exercise than planned activity above, log that with calorie burn x 0.85 and eat it back.
If you miss a planned workout, skip 100 calories that day, if you make it back up, eat 100 extra that day.
Adjust stats about every 5-10 lbs or if activity level changes enough to cause eating level to change enough.
So I think I just need to aim for 1436cals a day0 -
First of all, welcome to the EM2WL forum! Yes, there is a more sustainable way to lose fat and stay there.
Second, adding strength training to your workout goes a long way to increase your metabolism (burning more calories) and to avoid the skinny fat look.
Do you have a desk job, how active are you out of the spin classes twice a week? Seems to me that you may be more active than lightly active therefore you should be eating more than 1400. It is important to chose the right activity level. You mentioned using a fitbit. Is it adding the spin calories?
Have you checked out the EM2WL less starting guide? http://training.eatmore2weighless.com/get-your-quick-start-guide/?utm_source=mfp&utm_medium=DM&utm_campaign=quick start
Here is the link for the free EM2WL starter strength training workout: http://training.eatmore2weighless.com/get-your-free-workout/?utm_source=mfp&utm_medium=DM&utm_campaign=quick start
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I agree with Tereza, Your activity level would be along the lines of moderate and not light. Lightly active is kind of a silly term and unfortunately many people think they are only lightly active, when in fact they are more.
Lightly active would be if you worked a desk job, literally made very few steps in a day and maybe went out for a walk once or twice in a week. Once you start adding in things like classes, you should automatically jump up to moderate. Most people are already lightly active without even attempting and form of physical activity.
As much as I know you want to lose the fat and "get on with life" it isnt that simple. If you set your calories too low in the beginning, then you have no wiggle room down the line. Spend this time in the beginning learning to eat more. Have you done a metabolic reset? That is where you allow your body to eat at your maintenance calories and start to move the metabolism in the right direction again. Depending on your past dieting trends, you may take as little as 6-8 weeks for a reset, or up to months and months. At this point since you are just starting out and getting your feet wet, I recommend a metabolism reset. Eat at your maintenance for at least 6 weeks or so until you get a handle on your calorie level. Its much easier to drop calories when your intake is higher than starting off immediately at a cut and then having nowhere to go.
And Tereza gave you the links to help out. I strongly suggest you take some time to read through them. They are eye opening:)
Welcome aboard!0 -
I'm guessing on the Just TDEE spreadsheet you were accurate with planned exercise of spin class.
Just remember if it's 45-60 min 2 x weekly, that's 2 x 53 min average - not a huge difference, but still, keep that math in mind if you add more.
Also, confirm the daily activity, guessing you selected none of the options, perhaps no kids or dog walking or similar.
I guess if you basically come home and are studying or reading/TV/games/ect - then that indeed will be true on average.
And that 1.4 x BMR is between levels as comments above are saying on the rough 5 level TDEE chart - but that is Lightly Active for the newer study that like MFP uses.
And actually, if you are pretty sedentary with no walking to bus/subway/ect - you indeed could be that low easily. I see it all the time on my own Fitbit stats if no exercise.
But, as much as that spreadsheet is there to help hone in on best estimate TDEE - your Fitbit with some corrections will be better.
What model is it?
Have you confirm it seems to see steps accurately for you - like no big amount of steps when you know you didn't do any - or no low numbers when you know you were moving?
Have you ever confirmed it sees normal daily pace distance walked correctly?0 -
Hi, wow thank you so much for all the help and advice. I honestly wouldn't have thought I was moderate. I am very sedentary for most of the day. I commute to work so I have a 9 min walk to the station and probably a 5 min walk to the office. I walk in the morning and on my way home. So roughly 30 mins a day. But otherwise I'm usually sat at my desk. Don't go far for lunch, just because work has got busier. And I get home about 7 so by the time we've had dinner there isn't much left of the day. So I'm aiming to fit it two spin classes a week.
My fitbit is a Charge. It usually put my daily step between 8-9,000. Yeah it seems very accurate when it comes to steps. I've watched it and walked and it seems right to me. I've always wondered if my daily burn was right or over estimated. I'm usually between 1700-1800.
So should I be aiming for 1689 calories daily for six weeks? I'm petrified of putting on more weight but I guess I need to have faith. Then what do I do? How will I know when to transition? Sorry hope you don't mind me asking. Thanks for the links. Have signed up and will read through.0 -
Hi,
You seem to be at a pretty healthy weight. What about a body recomp? If you can lift some weights you could get rid of that "skinny fat" look that was there before and will be there when you get to 8 stone again.0 -
Hi,
You seem to be at a pretty healthy weight. What about a body recomp? If you can lift some weights you could get rid of that "skinny fat" look that was there before and will be there when you get to 8 stone again.
Hi
I think I'm supposed to be a bit less for my height. No? How does body recomp differ from eat more to weigh less? Is EMWL for losing weight if you're overweight? To be honest I'm less bothered by my weight. I just want to be slim and have less fat around my waist. Typical apple shape
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Recomping is more changing your body shape through nutrition and lifting. Muscle is smaller than fat so you could weigh the same while being smaller. Try working up to tdee and incorporating weight lifting. You may be very happy with the changes, but after 2-3 months you could cut some calories to lose some more fat. This is what I would do if I was in your situation.1
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Ditto what saranharm said. Muscle is way more compact and weighs more than fat. By eating to fuel your workouts and lifting weights your body will respond by building muscle, giving you the toned muscle and increasing your metabolism, which would help you burn the fat you want to see gone. There's no way to tone what isn't there, you need to build the muscle first. Once you find your TDEE, don't cut calories and start lifting. Make sure to watch your protein intake and give it some time.
Strength training will allow you to change your body shape, to change the proportions and give you a more balanced look. Besides the fact that your metabolism will increase, allowing you to burn more calories and fat.0 -
For comparison - today is my typical big sedentary day - less than 4000 steps, or just barely.
MFP is set to Sedentary (which is 1.25 x BMR, not the 1.2 the TDEE chart uses).
I get a Fitbit calorie adjustment of usually about 100-200 still.
So the Charge but not Charge HR, right?
So you'll need to log those spin classes on Fitbit (MFP database has no intensity options, Fitbit does, so better estimate) since spin is NOT step-based exercise.
ONLY count the time of the actual spin workout, not the easy 5 min warmup, not the 5 min easy cooldown, not the 10 min stretching afterwards - if they do all those things. So you could be in there 60 min, but only have 40 min of Spin perhaps to actually log.
Once that is logged, start paying attention to the Fitbit emailed weekly reports.
Neither the rough 5 level TDEE chart nor the infinite level spreadsheet with you picking the level will give as good an estimate as the Fitbit corrected with manually logged Spin class or other required workouts.
You can go back some weeks right now before you have done the Spin class and look at your average weekly burn. Divide by 7 - there's your average weekly TDEE pre-exercise.
Now go start to log a Spin class in Fitbit as Workout Record - and pick whatever intensity it is for time, and see what the calorie burn is for it. You can delete it now, just needed to know the calorie amount.
Take that x 2 and add to that average weekly burn from Fitbit.
Divide by 7 - there's your average weekly TDEE with exercise.
Base your math on that.
Once you get some weeks with the spin class logged and weekly burned contains it - just start tracking like prior 3 week average weekly burn. Make the next weeks goal based on that.
That was as seasons change or activity level does - you'll see the change in TDEE.
You will have to unsync your Fitbit from MFP for this to work. Or do a different method.
If you start doing some strength training - that too will need to be logged in Fitbit.
Let me know what type you might do based on what is at gym, and I'll let you know what Fitbit calls that in their database.
But please just don't go for 2 lb weights for curls and tricep kickbacks - you can make better use of your time if indeed limited as it seems.
And if that higher TDEE that Fitbit already reports seems scary high - then don't do the spin classes - spend the time strength training to obtain what is mentioned above by others - transforming body while you lose fat.
If the weight is still a tad high, take the 10% deficit and be accurate on weighing food for logging.
And yes, 124 lbs at 5' is a tad high if not that muscular - so you indeed have some to lose while transforming.
When you start out strength training you are in unique position to gain some muscle while losing fat at same time - especially if not that strong.
That can't happen later if done in wrong order. So do indeed lift early with deficit if needed.
An extra 2 lbs of muscle may increase your base metabolism by 12 calories a day - but the increased burn because of repair and building and you moving more will out-shadow that greatly.0 -
Morning,
Okay, this is really helpful. Thank you. Yes I’ve only got a Charge. Not a Charge HR.
Heybales I’m working out everything you’ve told me to do. Not sure if I’ve got it right but here goes:
Spinning in fitbit – 442cal burned. It’s much higher than MFP. Is that right? I’ve put intensity at vigorous I’m usually dripping and I’ve put it for 50 mins. I think we do a bit more than that but I’ve underestimated. Should I lower it from vigorous?
Pre exercise I burned 12,300 calories in one week, so my daily TDEE is about 1757 calories.
With exercise – assuming the 442 cal burn is right – is 884 cals/7 so TDEE with exercise is 1883 cals
Does that sound right to you? Eating at 1757 seems really high to me. Do I work up to it?
So just to be clear – my two options are – eat 1757 cals + cals burned while lifting 2-3 times a week or 1883 cals a day + cals burned lifting and spin twice a week? Perhaps I should reduce by the 10% deficit?
In terms of strength training I was thinking of doing a work out possibly upper and lower 2-3 times a week, using heavy dumbells to start well. I need to get a bit stronger before I use a barbell. I’ve got a really weak upper body and often end up injuring my shoulders/neck so wanted to get form right.
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Keep in mind that your weight is just that, a weight, a number, a scale reading. As long as you are healthy and feeling good about it, there's no rule saying that you should weigh more or less. It does not define you.
I do not think that 1757 is too high for TDEE, unless you are very sedentary and do not workout. Yes, you can increase your calories slowly by adding extra 100 cals/day each week until you reach your goal. Meanwhile pay attention to how you feel and even journal if you can. If you workout more, you need to eat more, that's for sure.
The spin calorie count Fitbit is giving you seems close to it, specially if you are pushing it. But overtime your body will adjust to that activity and become more efficient, therefore burning less.
2/3 times a week for strength training is great! You can keep some spin, specially if you really like it. When I was using my Fitbit I used to wear it on my ankle or shoelaces to get a close step and activity count. I did compare it to my heart rate monitor and the reading was pretty close. I never worried about counting every single calorie, it would just overwhelm and stress me out while not improving my results. I like eating and can't stand being "hanged". That said, I love how ST changed my body composition and proportions.
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TerezaToledo wrote: »Keep in mind that your weight is just that, a weight, a number, a scale reading. As long as you are healthy and feeling good about it, there's no rule saying that you should weigh more or less. It does not define you.
I do not think that 1757 is too high for TDEE, unless you are very sedentary and do not workout. Yes, you can increase your calories slowly by adding extra 100 cals/day each week until you reach your goal. Meanwhile pay attention to how you feel and even journal if you can. If you workout more, you need to eat more, that's for sure.
The spin calorie count Fitbit is giving you seems close to it, specially if you are pushing it. But overtime your body will adjust to that activity and become more efficient, therefore burning less.
2/3 times a week for strength training is great! You can keep some spin, specially if you really like it. When I was using my Fitbit I used to wear it on my ankle or shoelaces to get a close step and activity count. I did compare it to my heart rate monitor and the reading was pretty close. I never worried about counting every single calorie, it would just overwhelm and stress me out while not improving my results. I like eating and can't stand being "hanged". That said, I love how ST changed my body composition and proportions.
Hi
Thank you for that. I feel a bit more reassured. I think over the last few weeks I do feel overwhelmed and I want to be slim but I didn't know what was right for me. I've just worked out that on average I'm actually eating 1400 cals a day, so I'll start to up it. And focus on training. I do love spin, so I'll aim to do at least one class a week.
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@sharleni we use to say on EM2WL that cardio is for fun and lifting weights to transform. If spin is what you love and makes you happier, do it! For optimal changes, add ST to your routine. Focus is adding/changing things that you can see yourself doing in the long run, because those are the ones that will help you reach your goals and stay there. Upping your calories will give you more energy through your workouts and throughout the day. Go slow, take your time, but keep doing it and have patience. 1400 cals is too little, young kids need more than that.
With so much information, it can get overwhelming and confusing, but there's no need to go to extremes.1 -
And yes, 124 lbs at 5' is a tad high if not that muscular - so you indeed have some to lose while transforming.
Please dont go telling people their weight is a tad high. You have no idea what this person looks like, how much muscle they may have or what their mental state is. You saying off the cuff comments like that to someone you have never met just might be the start of a tailspin back into low cal dieting which is something we are trying to show people they dont need. Please keep your rude comments to yourself.1 -
And yes, 124 lbs at 5' is a tad high if not that muscular - so you indeed have some to lose while transforming.
Please dont go telling people their weight is a tad high. You have no idea what this person looks like, how much muscle they may have or what their mental state is. You saying off the cuff comments like that to someone you have never met just might be the start of a tailspin back into low cal dieting which is something we are trying to show people they dont need. Please keep your rude comments to yourself.
Sorry to offend you so badly.
I wasn't sure if other posters caught the straight 5' height aspect, and merely going by charts of often considered healthy weights - not BMI.
I think I made clear in context that it may not matter either depending on makeup - but that makeup was already described as fat where not desired.
Considering how low BMR is for that height/weight, there has been no extreme diet eating either from description given - it's just not up to where it could be.
So merely agreeing with Sharleni that if there was fat weight she wanted to still lose - that's not unrealistic.
Please reread my comments in context and not be pulled emotionally to just one sentence.0 -
And yes, 124 lbs at 5' is a tad high if not that muscular - so you indeed have some to lose while transforming.
Please dont go telling people their weight is a tad high. You have no idea what this person looks like, how much muscle they may have or what their mental state is. You saying off the cuff comments like that to someone you have never met just might be the start of a tailspin back into low cal dieting which is something we are trying to show people they dont need. Please keep your rude comments to yourself.
I must agree that being more sensitive goes a long way. I am sure I would be considered "a tad high" by charts, even though I weigh more than I did at my late teen years while my measurements are smaller. The whole idea is to decrease fat, not just the number on the scale. Anyone could lose a limb and instantly weigh less. And yes, certain comments, even when they mean no harm, could be harmful, just as Raynn said.
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Morning,
Okay, this is really helpful. Thank you. Yes I’ve only got a Charge. Not a Charge HR.
Heybales I’m working out everything you’ve told me to do. Not sure if I’ve got it right but here goes:
Spinning in fitbit – 442cal burned. It’s much higher than MFP. Is that right? I’ve put intensity at vigorous I’m usually dripping and I’ve put it for 50 mins. I think we do a bit more than that but I’ve underestimated. Should I lower it from vigorous?
Pre exercise I burned 12,300 calories in one week, so my daily TDEE is about 1757 calories.
With exercise – assuming the 442 cal burn is right – is 884 cals/7 so TDEE with exercise is 1883 cals
Does that sound right to you? Eating at 1757 seems really high to me. Do I work up to it?
So just to be clear – my two options are – eat 1757 cals + cals burned while lifting 2-3 times a week or 1883 cals a day + cals burned lifting and spin twice a week? Perhaps I should reduce by the 10% deficit?
In terms of strength training I was thinking of doing a work out possibly upper and lower 2-3 times a week, using heavy dumbells to start well. I need to get a bit stronger before I use a barbell. I’ve got a really weak upper body and often end up injuring my shoulders/neck so wanted to get form right.
I've found most people are inspired to do Spin class vigorous - so that's probably right. And as long as you weigh the same - moving the same mass will burn the same amount.
You getting more fit will improve the HR while doing it though, showing you are burning more fat with lower HR at same intensity. But usually people speed up since heart is stronger too, burning even more.
But for 1-2 x weekly - that difference in calorie burn during the workout is small % in scheme of things, nothing to worry about, but I figure if you have an easy best estimate available - why not.
As weight goes down too on Fitbit, that will correctly adjust, as will daily burn.
When you figure in strength training - your average weekly TDEE will be even higher!
If you enjoy the Spin as commented in other posts - by all means enjoy that 2 x weekly - if still allowing time for some good strength training.
A good routine with basic full body lifts could take 20-30 min, and indeed once you see how much that adds to TDEE - you'd adjust the math based on that - 10% is good minor deficit it sounds like - allows better response from the strength training.
I'll mention this on the strength training, as to what to log as in Fitbit.
Weights is when you do sets and reps of 5-15, 2-4 min rests, and heavy for you, meaning last few reps is difficult to keep good form - but keep good form.
Circuit training is reps of 15-20, 1 min max rests, and doing a circuit of 1 set and perhaps 2 circuits, again heavy for you at that increased reps.
Calisthenics is reps usually 20 and up, same 1 min max rests, and going from some routine to another perhaps no repeats - many times used with body weight or light weights only.
So whatever your workout ends up being, you can push the button on the Fitbit to track the time, then manually log a Workout Record matching same start/duration time, and take their calorie burn on it.
You can keep or delete the original Activity Record that Fitbit created from the button press, it's a snapshot and was showing original stats prior to your manual logging, so they aren't accurate anymore.
Here is a possible routine you can pick from depending on what you have to use - and your time.
Notice instructions at bottom and what is optional.
If you think you need to stand taller and want bicep focus, pick the first one. Other side, second one.
http://www.exrx.net/Workouts/Workout1ULUL.html
Ditto to slow food increase as mentioned by others - finds a place to put it and get stomach used to it.0 -
And yes, 124 lbs at 5' is a tad high if not that muscular - so you indeed have some to lose while transforming.
Please dont go telling people their weight is a tad high. You have no idea what this person looks like, how much muscle they may have or what their mental state is. You saying off the cuff comments like that to someone you have never met just might be the start of a tailspin back into low cal dieting which is something we are trying to show people they dont need. Please keep your rude comments to yourself.
Sorry to offend you so badly.
I wasn't sure if other posters caught the straight 5' height aspect, and merely going by charts of often considered healthy weights - not BMI.
I think I made clear in context that it may not matter either depending on makeup - but that makeup was already described as fat where not desired.
Considering how low BMR is for that height/weight, there has been no extreme diet eating either from description given - it's just not up to where it could be.
So merely agreeing with Sharleni that if there was fat weight she wanted to still lose - that's not unrealistic.
Please reread my comments in context and not be pulled emotionally to just one sentence.
You did not offend me.
You mearly show no tact when dealing with people in general. There are far more better ways for you to say what you would like to say without confusing people with your pages and pages of jargon.
@sharleni
As Tereza and myself have said before, if you enjoy spin classes, then keep them in your routine. You don't want to be doing anything that you dont enjoy, otherwise, whats the point:)
Raynn1
EM2WL Ambassador & Moderator2 -
Dear all
Thank you for everyone's comments. They're very much appreciated. Before this, I was really struggling to work out what to do, and was berating myself for not achieving 1200 cals a day.
@Raynn1 Thank you for your comments, but please be assured I was not offended whatsoever by heybales comments. I had mentioned earlier that I had little muscle mass and I really do need to shift the fat. It's not healthy and heybales advice, although it was technical (I don't think calling it jargon is particularly helpful), it really helped me figure out what to do. I actually feel much happier than before, and less stressed out. But I can see that you may be concerned that others may react badly to such comments, and I'm sure everyone will be careful about what they say. However I do think from the messages between heybales and myself, they knew where I was coming from.
Anyway, let's move on!
@heybales Thanks for the follow up advice. So I think I'll be doing weights then. Heavy dumbells but no more than 15 reps. Thanks for the link. Will have a look at it properly on the weekend. Might try my first session on Saturday morning! Wish me luck!!1 -
@sharleni how's everything going with you? I have been wondering how things are going, write us an update when you have a chance.
Tereza
Team EM2WL0