Calories from exercise...
obxsrfrgrl
Posts: 36 Member
I don't typically eat back exercise calories but my long run training has gotten to the point where I am burning around twice as many calories on that day as I am supposed to eat. My TDEE is 2230. Today, I burned approximately 4600 calories from my race. Should I eat more or just let it ride at my normal amount? Thanks for your help!
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Replies
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Did you calculate your tdee based on that much running? The tdee method accounts for all weekly activity and averages out that amount into daily eating.0
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I wasn't training that long when I did my calculations. I haven't eaten over as of now. And drinking more water isn't cutting it. At this point, I am just sucking it up for today. My training runs are going to increase weekly for the next 10 months as I slowly work my way up to marathon distance. I would prefer not having to recalculate TDEE biweekly for the next 10 months, so knowing the proper way to deal with this issue would be great.0
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I'm currently running between 9 to 15 miles once a week. Today was a half marathon race, which was faster than my normal training runs will be so I was actually running a shorter amount of time. My training plan includes 3 days of running and 3 days of strength and stretching (yoga, essentrics, ballet barre work). One of my 3 days of running is a long run. Oh, and I walk my dog 30 minutes every day and take a minimum of 10,000 steps daily. Yeah, I should probably redo my calculations. Lol0
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The average weekly TDEE method falls apart with workout routines like that - because those big days raise the daily average - and on rest days you would be eating in surplus, and on those big days not eating nearly enough for your next workout to benefit, nor for recovery for what you just did.
And those workouts won't fall in the rough 5 level TDEE charts either.
You must tweak it. Here's a method to get around it.
Figure out the calorie burn per hour for your running pace - that is pretty accurate calculation too.
http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/WalkRunMETs.html
Only count max 1 hr of running workouts on days it's done if you go over.
Now figure out your average weekly TDEE using those reduced hours. And eating goal based on that.
Now on days you do more than 1 hr, you know what the rate is for the extra time spent - eat those calories back minus the same 15% if in diet, or none less if doing maintenance.
That is the only way to power those workouts enough to get benefit from them, and not be eating in surplus on other days that frankly won't help the workout day recovery.0 -
Thanks, @heybales . That helps tremendously. I'm going to recalculate everything based on your suggestions.
Based on the aerobic calculator, I will expend approximately 649 calories per hour during my long runs. My new TDEE calculated with only 1 hour of running on long run days (but a total of 5-6 hours of exercise adding in the other training days) is 2532 and a BMR of 1468. I used the scooby calculator and oh my, that is a lot. I've only been eating 2230 for one week. I was at 1980 prior. So, I guess I need to bump up again. I have no clue how I am going to eat that much food!
I am going to redo my calculations using your spreadsheet, too, @heybales . Thanks for sharing it with us! I will post those numbers when I get them done.0 -
I'm guessing with a one day long run - you aren't doing some big cardio the next day too?
In which case the need for pretty quick post-workout snack with right macro's isn't that important, nor the need to fill up for next day hard workout.
In which case eating enough carbs prior to long run to top off muscle glycogen stores will be the important thing. In a diet, that's what is kept below potential level.
So think of carb heavy stuff you may deny yourself normally. Not sure how risky it is your run may not happen later in day, but you can start eating those things a meal or two prior.
Considering the normal rough 5-level TDEE chart doesn't bring in increased daily activity - if you got kids, get ready to eat big time!0 -
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justsayinisall wrote: »
^ so true!!1 -
obxsrfrgrl wrote: »Thanks, @heybales . That helps tremendously. I'm going to recalculate everything based on your suggestions.
Based on the aerobic calculator, I will expend approximately 649 calories per hour during my long runs. My new TDEE calculated with only 1 hour of running on long run days (but a total of 5-6 hours of exercise adding in the other training days) is 2532 and a BMR of 1468. I used the scooby calculator and oh my, that is a lot. I've only been eating 2230 for one week. I was at 1980 prior. So, I guess I need to bump up again. I have no clue how I am going to eat that much food!
I am going to redo my calculations using your spreadsheet, too, @heybales . Thanks for sharing it with us! I will post those numbers when I get them done.
Have you increased your calories? How are you feeling?0 -
TerezaToledo wrote: »
Have you increased your calories? How are you feeling?
Hi @TerezaToledo ,
No, I haven't increased calories as of now. My training plan had to be put on hold for a couple weeks due to a slight strain in my hamstring, so I'm not exercising the same amount as I was when I asked the question.
I jumped in feet first in April when I went from 1200 calories or less a day to 1980, then 2230. Luckily, I haven't seen any increase in scale weight other than the same 4 pounds I had been fluctuating with for months.
I feel pretty good. I get hunger pangs now, which is new. And I have energy all day long with only a very slight tiredness in the afternoons. It's still difficult to get in 2230 calories daily but I am getting much better at it.
My training plan will begin again next Monday, so I will begin upping my calories then. I'll let you know how things are going at that point.
Thanks for asking!1 -
@obxsrfrgrl, I'm sorry about your hamstring, but woohoo, that's excellent news about how you have been feeling with more calories! Hunger pangs are a good sign that your body and your metabolism are working well. Let the furnace burn!
Take your time, this is a journey for life. When you have a chance, check out the www.eatmore2weighless.com for more on what to expect and how to's in this journey. Let us know how it is going.0 -
Just wanted to give an update.
Woohoo! I finally have rehabbed this stupid hamstring!
Monday, May 30 - Memorial Day here in the US - I will begin my training plan I was supposed to start previously. I'm really excited.
I've upped my calories to 2380 based on the TDEE calculated from gathering information for over a month on my FitBit. After 2 weeks on the new plan, I will be reassessing my caloric needs to maintain my weight and change my numbers accordingly. I've decided I will do that every two weeks when my strength training and running increases/changes throughout the training plan.
I will be trying to update every Monday with general updates. I will (try to) post some before photos (yikes
) tonight, along with my measurements and my stats. Then, I plan to post photos, measurements and stats every 2 weeks when I reassess my plan and goals.
I'm trying to keep myself accountable to all of you here in the EM2WL community, so hopefully I won't fall off the bandwagon.
Oh, and I've been to the website a lot. I started my EM2WL journey in April and kinda stayed in the background for a while. So, yes, I know what to expect and how I want to proceed.
Thanks!
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Good to hear your hamstring is better, yay!
Looks like you have everything ready to go, nice! Take pictures, they will definitelly show your progress better than the scale. Keep us updated!0 -
You have everything under control and know exactly what you are doing! I was a background lurker for many months too
I have had conversations like this with my brother who is in triathlon training season. On long ride plus run days he can burn up to 6-7000 calories!
He says, how can I possibly eat all that back! Well, he can't, so what I suggested to him and he is now seeing increased performance results, is try to not look at each day, but more the week as a whole.
He needs to be well fuelled before those endurance rides/runs/swims but quite often afterwards he might not feel like eating a lot. And that's fine! He is naturally hungrier the day after, even if it is a recovery day, then he will eat more. So his average day is looking around 3000 with more on/after the highly active training days.
He also said,'how can I eat more!' ( he was on just 2200 previously)
The tips I gave him were; make your protein shake with milk, rather than water and add a teaspoon of peanut butter and a banana. Try to include calorie dense foods like avocado, nut butters. Add more meals, so you can spread the calories out over the day, rather than trying to squeeze them all in one meal!
So far he is sleeping better, mood better, picking up some PR's in the pool
Hopefully some of these tips might help you too.
Looking forward to your updates.4 -
I'm a day late on posting my starting info, but better late than never, right?
My pictures will not upload for some reason, so I'm working on that issue.
Here are my starting stats and measurements, courtesy of @heybales awesome spreadsheet:
Age: 37
Height: 5'6
SW: 158.4
UGW: 125 (I fall between a small and medium frame)
I did all these measurements myself and I was really uncertain on how to do some of them so I just guessed as best I could.
6.25" wrist of dominant hand - minimum girth
10" forearm palm up open hand - maximum girth
14.125" neck looking level - minimum girth
33.5" waist - minimum girth
34.5" abdomen at navel
38.5" hips feet together - maximum girth
25.5" one thigh feet 2" apart - maximum girth
15.25" one calf - maximum girth
30.49 Average Body Fat % (Yuck)
Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR) 1,590
Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) 2,360 (FitBit calculated 2380, very close)
Total Daily Eating Goal (TDEG) 1,844
Exercise for the week looks like this:- Monday: 3 miles Easy Run, 30 min Essentrics (ballet stretching)
- Tuesday: Legs 60 min, 30 min Yoga
- Wednesday: Core/Full Body 60 min, 30 min Yoga
- Thursday: 5 miles Speed/Hill Workout, 30 min Essentrics
- Friday: Arms 60 min, 30 min Yoga
- Saturday: 6 miles Marathon Pace, 30 min Essentrics
- Sunday: Rest
Should be an interesting week!0 -
I'll mention on the deficit, if you haven't had any diet for months - that may be alright for a couple weeks (actually longer if you indeed get that protein level in) - but if you've been in a diet already and were having issues - you'd want to work your way up to TDEE for some time to confirm you are starting with a totally healthy full-burning body.
The body's first adapt to lower calorie isn't metabolism, but daily burn - making you move less to compensate. That's hard to estimate and get in TDEE calculations - though Fitbit would normally see it in reduction of steps (and many people observe that).
The measurements was probably right on - the only one location specific is at navel, and that should be repeatable.
You just want the circumference of tape to be perpendicular to the body segment being measured, while still hitting that min or max. So that will indeed move location on say hips or waist through a span of time as the minimum location changes. Forearm, calf, thigh, probably not so much.
What was the difference between BF calc methods?
Big difference means one side is most likely inaccurate - have to wait to find out which side. But that's not bad % at all.
You did enter that avgBF% in the yellow cell for it?
And I notice no big runs yet to have to factor in, or you indeed didn't count them in TDEE estimate yet, but eat back extra when they are done?0 -
I actually am not eating at a deficit at all. I'm still obsessing a bit over things and being slightly impatient, so I don't think I'm ready yet. I've been eating at the 2380 amount for a week now and I am finding it a bit difficult to hit the daily amounts. I was okay at the 2230 but the extra 150 calories has been tough.
I haven't yet seen a reduction in daily burn, but I have been keeping my eye on that particular issue. I know it is a concern when you are cardio-heavy. Since I am in training for my first full marathon, I can't stop or even lessen my cardio during my reset. I think adding in the strength training will be helpful in keeping my burn up since I wasn't previously doing it.
I've been maintaining around the same weight, 156-159, for the last month, so I feel like I'm okay to stay at 2380 calories. If I see things change during my check-ins, I will absolutely make adjustments.
My BF calcs were:
32.73 U.S. Navy Circumference Method
28.25 Covert Bailey "Fit or Fat" book Method
30.49 Average body fat % of the two methods
I did enter the average BF% in the yellow cell for it.
I have not included the long runs into my TDEE, only one hour of time was counted for them as a 6 miler is typically a bit more than one hour and is my "shortest" long run I have planned. I do plan to eat back the extra when I get to the longer runs. First one will be in 2 weeks when I hit my first 8 mile run.0 -
Considering the amount you cardio you are doing to prepare for your marathon, holding off on the cut is an excellent idea. Your body does need fuel to keep on going. If you don't eat enough to give your body all the energy it needs being so active, it will definitely hold on to fat stores. Adding strength training is always good, but since you are training for a marathon you may be pulling it in two different directions. When is your marathon going to be?0
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Got the plan down well.
Is the strength training upper body only - or attempting lower in there with the running?
There are some good and bad schedule arrangements for lower included perhaps 1x weekly.
If you do decide to do small deficit at some point because you feel ready mentally (and your TDEE is too high to almost meet), just plan on skipping the deficit on day before any long training runs, and probably the half-week prior to the race.
Not the times to be muscle-glucose depleted in the slightest.0 -
@TerezaToledo, my race isn't until March 2017. This race is my first full marathon (I've done about 10 or 11 half marathons to date) and I'm working my way up to that distance slowly over 9 months, building up a really good base mileage and not stressing my body out. My schedule stays the same for 2 weeks and then ups the distance of the long run.
I'm working with a running coach who is also a personal trainer. He used to compete in bodybuilding competitions but has "retired". He is also an Ultra runner. So, I feel very confident that the different strength training moves he has me doing will be complimentary to my goals.
@heybales, I have talked with my guy about possibly doing a deficit around August or September. We both think doing a small deficit at that point might be okay, but we're taking it as it comes.
The training he has me doing is both upper and lower, as well as core/full body moves. I'm only using very low weights for my lower body (5 pound dumbbells and the barbell with no weight on it, so 15 pound barbell). The lower strength is geared more toward butt and upper legs, as well as hips. I haven't done the arms yet, that is today. The core/full body was a combination of pilates style core work and lots of burpees and mountain climbers and planks. I did not use any kind of weights on these moves, only body weight.
And of course there is the daily stretching exercises, either yoga or Essentrics depending on what else I am doing. I've had issues in the past with IT Band syndrome and hip tendonitis, so we're working to keep those areas in tip-top shape.0 -
Looks like you are having great support and a great coach! You will be race ready when the time comes, wtg!
Tereza
Team EM2WL0 -
2 week update:
Ugh. I'm struggling due to the humidity and heat in the area where I live. Because I have exercise/allergy-induced asthma and suffer from migraines, this time of year is a killer. I'm trying to push through because I know I will see major gains in my pace come the fall.
SW: 158.4
CW: 159.7 (First time I weighed in as more than 158.5)
No change in most of my measurements. Up 1/4 inch in my calf measurements.
6.25" wrist of dominant hand - minimum girth - Same
10" forearm palm up open hand - maximum girth - Same
14.125" neck looking level - minimum girth - Same
33.5" waist - minimum girth-Same
34.5" abdomen at navel-Same
38.5" hips feet together - maximum girth- Same
25.5" thigh feet 2" apart - maximum girth-Same
15.5" calf - maximum girth -Up 1/4 inch
30.49 Average Body Fat % - Same
FitBit calculated TDEE 2320
Daily Caloric Intake (Avg) 2335
Exercise for the next 2 weeks looks like this:
Monday: 2 miles Easy Run, 30 min Essentrics (ballet stretching)
Tuesday: 2 miles Easy Run, Legs 60 min, 30 min Yoga
Wednesday: 2 miles Easy Run, Core/Full Body 60 min
Thursday: 3 miles + 6 Hill Sprints, 30 min Essentrics
Friday: 2 miles Easy Run, Arms 60 min, 30 min Yoga
Saturday: 8 miles Long Run, 30 min Essentrics
Sunday: Rest
We're changing up the schedule since the longer runs originally scheduled were going to be too difficult on my lungs. I still have to get in my miles, so we broke them down into daily runs.
My trainer thinks I'm ready to try a cut and we discussed how to go about it. So starting today, I'll be lowering my caloric intake to 1880, which is a 500-calorie reduction per day based on my original Fitbit calculated TDEE. We'll keep to this schedule and eating plan for 2 weeks and then check back in again. Hopefully, I will see some change in measurements after the next two weeks.0 -
I feel you on the heat and humidity, same thing here and some days it really does not help. But I take the hot wethear over the cold weather anytime
I'm glad your trainer is working with you. Let us know how the cut goes!
Tereza
Team EM2WL0 -
After my first 10 days of workouts that were on hot days (had late spring rains and temps) with all the extra sweating compared to prior - gained 3 lbs.
My cut short ride on Sun had me losing 4 lbs for 2 hrs despite drinking 3 lbs of fluids. So really - lost 7 lbs of fluids.
When you look at 64 oz of water in a container - it's hard to imagine that much mostly being lost from blood supply, though some other water sources pulled in and then lost. Still.
Do you reach a point in the summer where allergies are down enough for less effect?
Since it's the stress of breathing at certain rate and volume too - have you thought about run / walk intervals just to take a load off the system as a whole?
It allows you to still hit a desired pace for practice of form (compared to slowing way down), while still allowing you to hit desired time on your feet, even if not exact distance or impact - but it's been shown to still help.
Most of my running is run / walk except for the race - and a few well placed training sessions.
At least a lot can still be gained from that 8 mile run.
One suggestion on the deficit amount and days it's taken.
Your long run by default is going to be slower (probably) than your shorter runs - therefore the ratio of fat to carb burned as energy source will be higher fat.
Well, no need to refuel the fat - everyone has plenty of that - mainly need the carbs.
Suggest you float 100 calories of deficit to that big run day from both Fri and Sun, making those 400 cal deficit days instead. 700 on Sat.
Since Fri will be smaller deficit - you'll be more refilled for glucose stores on Sat.
Plan eating well for enough prior to run to keep brain straight, and enough after for good recovery.
I'll bet 700 on that large TDEE day will still be a smaller % of the total.0
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