Questions about carbs and your brain
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kendahlj
Posts: 243 Member
I have been on a low carb diet for about four weeks now and have lost 15 pounds. I went today to measure body fat, and my percentage was really high. I knew it would be high as I'm obese, but I was surprised by the number. The health educator said that the brain uses a lot of carb (glucose) calories to operate but can't convert fat to use so if it's not getting enough glucose from carbs, it will turn to lean muscle and convert that to glucose for use. So I guess the question is do I need to eat more carbs? I want to start lifting and building muscle, but I also want to keep losing weight. I feel so much better having cut out sugar, bread and other carbs, so I know that what I am doing has merit. I just don't want my body cannibalizing my muscles to survive.
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http://www.healthcentral.com/diabetes/c/17/27575/brain-fuel-myth
NO total myth as the USDA/AMA 45-65% carbs plan is all they are allowed to promote, unless you have brain seizures, then KETO may be allowed.
Read this info, just one of MANY articles proving the brain does indeed get fuel converted from fats to run efficiently. The mental energy I have with "ketobrain" is amazing, all from sticking to LCHF.
Your body DOES NOT cannabalize heart or body muscle with a min. >40 protein a day, 56 average needed for men says www.livestrong.com ..Americans typically eat too much protein, ~100 gr seems average, but find the macro that works for you. LCHF is still MODERATE protein, and effective
"morbid obesity" is never fun to hear, but realize just 5-10% loss of total body weight adds years to your life, gains health, better BG, and many more benefits. so it is a slow road, we did not gain it all fast, and will take a while to lose. trust your body.
You can search "carbs need" this info easily yourself online. Good luck.6 -
Did you have a baseline measurement of your BF percentage before you started losing weight? If not, don't worry. You probably had a higher percentage before you lost 15 pounds. You're doing a great job.
Your brain can use ketones, unless you lack some critical enzyme for ketone metabolism, which is possible, but unlikely. You will lose some muscle mass when you lose body fat. It's inevitable. Weight training will help.2 -
The body can efficiently convert proteins to glucose when needed. Dietary carbs are not the ONLY source of glucose for the body.
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Please continue to do your own research. As stated above, these "health educators" are only allowed to "teach" the SAD and for weight loss, low fat/high carb, which has proven to be devastating to most people. You've already lost 15lbs, and since you are already a month in, have probably gotten past the worst of the transition issues. So how do you feel? Are you weak? Do you lack mental focus and clarity? If not, then stay the course and keep on with your bad self!
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lithezebra wrote: »Did you have a baseline measurement of your BF percentage before you started losing weight? If not, don't worry. You probably had a higher percentage before you lost 15 pounds. You're doing a great job.
Your brain can use ketones, unless you lack some critical enzyme for ketone metabolism, which is possible, but unlikely. You will lose some muscle mass when you lose body fat. It's inevitable. Weight training will help.
I didn't think to get the initial measurement unfortunately. I hopefully did have a higher body fat percentage... I just know this diet is working for me and I feel awesome. I used to not make it through the day without needing a midafternoon nap. I have way more energy now and don't get tired during the day. That alone is reason to stay on it!
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Are you eating ketogenic? Your brain is fine running on ketones (some even advocate that brains run better).2
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The health educator said that the brain uses a lot of carb (glucose) calories to operate but can't convert fat to use so if it's not getting enough glucose from carbs, it will turn to lean muscle and convert that to glucose for use.
The most dangerous thing about this assertion is that it's not 100% false. Those kernels of truth lend (undeserved) credence to the falsehoods.
Here are the facts:
The brain needs the equivalent of about 120g of glucose in fuel per day. Period.
Unlike the muscles, the brain cannot use fat directly for that fuel.
However, the brain can get something like upwards of about half of its fuel needs from ketones. The rest must come from glucose, and yes, gluconeogenesis (the creation of glucose from another substrate, usually protein) will supply that need if other substrates or sources are not available.
However, the odds of the body having to turn to muscle for that are actually quite slim. In order for that to happen, you have to be eating zero carbohydrates and reduced protein. Before that point, it can rely on dietary protein and sugar, as well as other sources like glycogen stores and free amino acids. In fact, an adequate-protein, low carb diet is significantly more protein sparing than most other diets.
So, go lift weights. Make sure you're eating enough in general to fuel your workouts, and make sure you're getting in the ballpark of 1g/lb of lean mass (so, if you're 250lb and have a body fat percentage of 50%, then you have 125lb of lean mass and should aim for around 125g of protein). It's okay if you're over or under a little on a day to day basis, it will even out fairly easily, and 125g is pretty easy to hit with a serving or so of meat/protein at each of three meals in a day.4 -
Are you eating ketogenic? Your brain is fine running on ketones (some even advocate that brains run better).
I cut out sugar (except for an occasional piece of fruit), bread, rice, pasta, and potatoes. If it has flour in it, such as crackers or any other processed food, I won't eat it. I don't know what ketogenic is or if I'm sticking to anything specific, but my diet is essentially proteins and vegetables. I'm not eating much corn because it's difficult for me to digest, but other than that I haven't been too picky about what vegetables I will eat.
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Dragonwolf wrote: »The health educator said that the brain uses a lot of carb (glucose) calories to operate but can't convert fat to use so if it's not getting enough glucose from carbs, it will turn to lean muscle and convert that to glucose for use.
The most dangerous thing about this assertion is that it's not 100% false. Those kernels of truth lend (undeserved) credence to the falsehoods.
Here are the facts:
The brain needs the equivalent of about 120g of glucose in fuel per day. Period.
Unlike the muscles, the brain cannot use fat directly for that fuel.
However, the brain can get something like upwards of about half of its fuel needs from ketones. The rest must come from glucose, and yes, gluconeogenesis (the creation of glucose from another substrate, usually protein) will supply that need if other substrates or sources are not available.
However, the odds of the body having to turn to muscle for that are actually quite slim. In order for that to happen, you have to be eating zero carbohydrates and reduced protein. Before that point, it can rely on dietary protein and sugar, as well as other sources like glycogen stores and free amino acids. In fact, an adequate-protein, low carb diet is significantly more protein sparing than most other diets.
So, go lift weights. Make sure you're eating enough in general to fuel your workouts, and make sure you're getting in the ballpark of 1g/lb of lean mass (so, if you're 250lb and have a body fat percentage of 50%, then you have 125lb of lean mass and should aim for around 125g of protein). It's okay if you're over or under a little on a day to day basis, it will even out fairly easily, and 125g is pretty easy to hit with a serving or so of meat/protein at each of three meals in a day.
But isn't that 120g a day in a sugar burning body? I thought there was a recent discussion and evidence that the total glucose needs for a fat burner were actually a bit lower due the adaptation of using the more efficient ketones for energy. ??? You're better at the science than I am... You probably know what I'm referring to.
Anyway, OP, I definitely agree with what @dragonwolf is saying about kernels of truth and it being all skewed into a misunderstanding. I've done a lot of reading in the brain benefits of Keto specifically. That's my entire reason for eating this way. I wanted to lose weight, but I wasn't obese and I had no insulin resistance or diabetes signs at all. Once I learned about the brain benefits of using ketones, I was absolutely committed for life!2 -
Education said" .....but can't convert fat to use so if it's not getting enough glucose from carbs, it will turn to lean muscle and convert that to glucose
Article posted said:
the RDA is based.... "on providing adequate glucose as the required fuel for the central nervous system without reliance on glucose production from ingested protein or fat."
Ah! So it's at least 130 grams of glucose per day that our brain needs! And glucose just ain't the same thing as carbohydrate.
"Fat is the perfect fuel, Dr. Michael Eades wrote on his blog. "Part of it provides energy to the liver so that the liver can convert protein to glucose. The unusable part of the fat then converts to ketones, which reduce the need for glucose."
<end>
I've read in several valid resources that the brain prefers running on ketones anyway, and those like me who CAN'T consume even "moderate protein" I can provide my body what it needs via essential amino acids (like those in meat) and not risk heart or body muscle degradation.
So there are solutions if we seek them even with severe medical, or metabolic issues.
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You get some glucose out of the glycerol portion of fats1
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Dragonwolf wrote: »The health educator said that the brain uses a lot of carb (glucose) calories to operate but can't convert fat to use so if it's not getting enough glucose from carbs, it will turn to lean muscle and convert that to glucose for use.
The most dangerous thing about this assertion is that it's not 100% false. Those kernels of truth lend (undeserved) credence to the falsehoods.
Here are the facts:
The brain needs the equivalent of about 120g of glucose in fuel per day. Period.
Unlike the muscles, the brain cannot use fat directly for that fuel.
However, the brain can get something like upwards of about half of its fuel needs from ketones. The rest must come from glucose, and yes, gluconeogenesis (the creation of glucose from another substrate, usually protein) will supply that need if other substrates or sources are not available.
However, the odds of the body having to turn to muscle for that are actually quite slim. In order for that to happen, you have to be eating zero carbohydrates and reduced protein. Before that point, it can rely on dietary protein and sugar, as well as other sources like glycogen stores and free amino acids. In fact, an adequate-protein, low carb diet is significantly more protein sparing than most other diets.
So, go lift weights. Make sure you're eating enough in general to fuel your workouts, and make sure you're getting in the ballpark of 1g/lb of lean mass (so, if you're 250lb and have a body fat percentage of 50%, then you have 125lb of lean mass and should aim for around 125g of protein). It's okay if you're over or under a little on a day to day basis, it will even out fairly easily, and 125g is pretty easy to hit with a serving or so of meat/protein at each of three meals in a day.
But isn't that 120g a day in a sugar burning body? I thought there was a recent discussion and evidence that the total glucose needs for a fat burner were actually a bit lower due the adaptation of using the more efficient ketones for energy. ??? You're better at the science than I am... You probably know what I'm referring to.
Anyway, OP, I definitely agree with what @dragonwolf is saying about kernels of truth and it being all skewed into a misunderstanding. I've done a lot of reading in the brain benefits of Keto specifically. That's my entire reason for eating this way. I wanted to lose weight, but I wasn't obese and I had no insulin resistance or diabetes signs at all. Once I learned about the brain benefits of using ketones, I was absolutely committed for life!
Hence why I said the equivalent of 120g of glucose.
You're right, ketones supply some of that need, and the need for glucose proper goes down. As I recall, reduces by somewhere in the ballpark of half. In other words, the brain requires something like 60g of glucose proper, and can get the rest of its energy needs from ketones.
The unknown for me is how many of what units of ketones equate to the same amount of energy as 60g of glucose?1 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »As I recall, reduces by somewhere in the ballpark of half. In other words, the brain requires something like 60g of glucose proper....
The minimum is around 40g/d. That's for the entire body. Brain is about 35g, blood cells use most of the rest.The unknown for me is how many of what units of ketones equate to the same amount of energy as 60g of glucose?
Carbs are around 4 kcal/g. Ketones are around 5 kcal/g.
Brain needs about 500 kcal/d. About 2/3 can come from ketones (333 kcal or 66g ketones).
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Thanks guys.
See OP, as a fat burner, you don't actually need 120g of glucose and like @ketogenicgurl said, that doesn't equal 120g of carbs anyway. It's not the same thing.
And, consumed protein would be used for GNG before your lean mass as well.1 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »As I recall, reduces by somewhere in the ballpark of half. In other words, the brain requires something like 60g of glucose proper....
The minimum is around 40g/d. That's for the entire body. Brain is about 35g, blood cells use most of the rest.The unknown for me is how many of what units of ketones equate to the same amount of energy as 60g of glucose?
Carbs are around 4 kcal/g. Ketones are around 5 kcal/g.
Brain needs about 500 kcal/d. About 2/3 can come from ketones (333 kcal or 66g ketones).
Even better for us fat-burners!
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