Keto for cancer treatment/recovery

neweuquol
neweuquol Posts: 62 Member
edited December 2 in Social Groups
I am starting a keto diet tomorrow (Sunday). I will not be doing this for weight loss, I am almost 5'10, 135 pounds. I was diagnosed with cancer last year and I have reached a point in treatment where I have decided "what harm can it do."

For any vegan trolls, I know the science is not perfect but it makes sense to me. If you want to show me clinical trial reports from a massive number of people using a vegan diet I will read it but know this decision was made after weeks of reading scientific literature about ketogenic diets, including clinical trials.

When you get a PET scan, you are injected with a radioactive sugar and then are scanned for "hot spots" of increased sugar intake. Those hot spots are cancer cells eating the sugar like mad. That's why keto makes sense to me.

I was strict Paleo for about a year then added dairy until I got sick. My cancer was not caused by diet but crappy luck and genetics.

My macros are: 2413 calories, 20 grams carbs, 71 grams protein, and 228 grams of fat.

They are high because being 135 pounds at nearly nearly 5'10, I am extremely scrawny. Once I make weight, I will adjust them. I will probably be adjusting them constantly to be honest.

The transition from paleo to keto does not seem that drastic and I am not worried about cost because I was able to do paleo on $125/month and I was eating grass fed beef and lamb.
I will not have much support because my family loves their deep fried everything and bread (I am in the Deep South). I have to live with my parents because my income was slashed by 80% literally overnight and I receive only social security disability.

Anyone else here doing keto for cancer treatment/recovery? Anyone else doing keto when no one else in the house will be?

Replies

  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    I'm sorry to hear of your diagnosis. I hope ketosis helps. Do you have a cancer that responds well to a LCHF diet? I know some are significantly affected by aLCHF diet whereas others are not much. It does make sense for many cancers that reducing carbs could help.

    I think I have heard some good things about coconut oil, or MCTs, but I'm not sure of that.

    I'm not doing keto due to cancer but rather for autoimmune issues and insulin resistance. Like you, I'm the only one in my house doing it but it can work. For dinner we usually have a meat, a veggie, and some sort of starchy food. I skip the starch and eat the veggie and meat, often adding some extra fats to them like cheese dip on the veggies or butter on my steak. Since I am the cook, we tend to skip high carb casserole dishes like lasagne. We'll still have pasta and meat sauce but I skip the pasta entirely or use spaghetti sqaush instead. You can make it work.

    Good luck. And welcome to the group. :)
  • neweuquol
    neweuquol Posts: 62 Member
    I have an extremely rare cancer with only 4 known cases in the country (I am sure there are more but are misdiagnosed). I have pleomorphic rhabdomyosarcoma. Not much is known about it except that it tends to be chemo resistant and mine has proven to be no exception.
  • LauraCoth
    LauraCoth Posts: 303 Member
    First of all, I'm very sorry to hear of your diagnosis. Cancer is a beast. My partner John was diagnosed with rectal cancer 18 months ago and we've found out first hand just how it takes over your life.

    I'm very interested in any research relating to how diet affects recurrence and survival rates. My partner has always been thin, but lost 25 pounds during chemotherapy. For a few months I fed him anything he would eat, but now that he's in remission and has regained his weight and then some, I'm starting to be concerned about his diet. He eats too much sugar, in any form. I'm not a scientist, but it makes sense to me that cutting back on carbs can only help.
  • neweuquol
    neweuquol Posts: 62 Member
    LauraCoth wrote: »
    First of all, I'm very sorry to hear of your diagnosis. Cancer is a beast. My partner John was diagnosed with rectal cancer 18 months ago and we've found out first hand just how it takes over your life.

    I'm very interested in any research relating to how diet affects recurrence and survival rates. My partner has always been thin, but lost 25 pounds during chemotherapy. For a few months I fed him anything he would eat, but now that he's in remission and has regained his weight and then some, I'm starting to be concerned about his diet. He eats too much sugar, in any form. I'm not a scientist, but it makes sense to me that cutting back on carbs can only help.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4215472

    That is a clinical trial involving people who had exhausted conventional cancer treatment options and the results, while still needing more research, were promising. Maybe if you two sit and read that?
  • dmariet116
    dmariet116 Posts: 530 Member
    I am sorry to hear as my brother was diagnosed with stage IV lung cancer a year and 4 months ago. You are correct about the PET scans relying on sugar to carry the radioactive material to the cancer cells. My brother cut back drastically on his sugar initially and after 2 brain surgeries, radiation and 1st round of chemo, he did not show any lesions on his adrenal gland, lymph nodes or brain where they were originally detected. He went on maintenance chemo for several months but unfortunately was not eating as well. His lymph node has new lesions and so does his kidney/adrenal gland. I can't say diet is to blame. Cancer is a beast.

    Make sure meats are cooked well, especially if under going chemo. Your immune system becomes very weak. Also if you eat fruits and vegetables at all, always wash, scrub and peel. Bacteria and pesticides can be in all foods, no matter how healthy. NO GMO's, grains or sugar. Avoid obvious possible carcinogens... caramel coloring, artificial sweeteners, plastic drink and food containers.

    The problem with chemo is that it can really mess with appetite and the extreme nausea can affect what and how much you eat. That is why so many cancer patients rely on milkshakes and unhealthy choices just to keep some weight on.

  • neweuquol
    neweuquol Posts: 62 Member
    dmariet116 wrote: »

    Make sure meats are cooked well, especially if under going chemo. Your immune system becomes very weak. Also if you eat fruits and vegetables at all, always wash, scrub and peel. Bacteria and pesticides can be in all foods, no matter how healthy. NO GMO's, grains or sugar. Avoid obvious possible carcinogens... caramel coloring, artificial sweeteners, plastic drink and food containers.

    The problem with chemo is that it can really mess with appetite and the extreme nausea can affect what and how much you eat. That is why so many cancer patients rely on milkshakes and unhealthy choices just to keep some weight on.

    I have been on chemo for a little over a year and regimen after regimen has failed. However, my bone marrow doesn't seem to stay down for very long. My WBC always rebounds to normal after each cycle and I have only needed one blood transfusion when I was told I was need dozens by now.

    My oncologist said my body doesn't like to follow the rules and he has approved things like medium rare steaks as long as my WBC is up.

    I have not needed a neulasta shot since June of last year. My body is crazy and is trying hard to get rid of this beast.
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    edited July 2016
    @neweuquol it is awesome to see how you are approaching your condition.

    I am 65 and the only one in my house eating to stay in nutritional ketosis since Oct 2014. While I do not think I have active cancer I to understand how after the age 40 cancer cells are trying to get a toe hold in our bodies, it was the fear of cancer that lead me to start successfully eating this way.

    Many years ago I developed Ankylosing Spondylitis form of arthritis that has made the last 40 years very hard. In Aug 2014 I went for help because I was crashing and mobility was slipping away fast. The doctors want me to start on Enbrel injections in 90 days to knock out my immune system for the most part. I had to do something but knew in my weakened state cancer risks were going to be real.

    Finally 30 days before I was to start on Enbrel injections I cut out sugar and all forms of grains on a hunch that might save me from Enbrel injections and it did. I got heavy into coconut oil starting in Aug 2014.

    During the first 30 days my joint and muscle pain dropped from levels of 7-8 to 2-3 so I showed up to my Nov appointment much improved physically and mentally and told the doctors I was going to pass on starting any Rx Meds.

    Being naive I thought they would be excited about me getting my pain managed and health starting to recover just by changing the way I ate but that was not the case. They were clear that my new way of eating was not going to work. The young doctor was from India and he said he had come to the USA so he could prescribe drugs like Enbrel because they did not use it in India because of the cost. Two years the cost for Enbrel at Walmart was about $2700 a month.

    Because of cancer in the family I never backed off of learning how cancer is treated outside of the USA and put myself through several cancer protocols from Europe and Asia being my own guinea pig and I still continue parts of them today should I or a family member have need to use them in the future. Today for example I have spent 8 hours researching Ashwagandha in more detail having started it 8 days ago for health reasons. There was no research that I read today that mentioned using it to treat your type of cancer however but Ashwagandha has been shown to help cancer patients to gain weight and slow come types of cancer.

    There is no question that the keto Way Of Eating (WOE) may be a step in the right direction as how to eat when fighting cancer or most any major health issue.

    Keep up your research because there are a lot of protocols out there to read about and what they call for can be found on Amazon I have found. There are many things that help people recover from chemo and radiation too.

    Best of success. It is good to hear your body is a fighter. There are many things you can do to help it be a better fighter you will read about.
  • dmariet116
    dmariet116 Posts: 530 Member
    @neweuquol Great that your wbc stays good. My brothers was all over the place with his chemo. Praying they come up with better options. He is starting Optiva after his last CT scan detected new lesions and increase in lung mass. I have read many good things about immunotherapy so we have hope that he will see improvements again.

    Best of luck to you and hope they find the right treatment options for your case.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    You sound like you are fighting this hard. Such determination should make the switch to a ketogenic diet work... BTW, I've heard (I'm sure you've heard this already) that a ketogenic diet and fasting can help with some of the side effects of chemo. Apologies if you've heard this all before.

    When cutting your carbs, make sure you increase your sodium/salt to 3000-5000mg per day. Carbs cause water retention so you will probably lose a few pounds of water weight right off the bat. Along with water you will lose sodium so your electrolytes will get out of balance causing symptpoms like fatigue, headaches, brain fog, nausea, and muscle weakness and achiness. If you let it stay out of balance for many days your body will leech potassium and magnesium out of your tissues or bones; that will worsen or continue your symtpms, and cause more symptoms like muscle spasms.

    You don't need more on your plate so drink a cup or two of salty boulion every day, or use salt tablets. You should salt your food too, and you can even add a teaspoon of salt to your water every day to meet your sodium needs.

    Supplementing potassium and magnesium often does not hurt. If you take magnesium use mafnesium citrate. Too much will cause diarrhea though. Magnesium oxide will also cause diarrhea.

    Coconut oil and MCTs are really good fats for raising ketones. Using those fats may help you sitch and adapt to ketosis quickly. Plus coconut oil has antibacterial properties which could help with health after all you've been through.

    The group here is very helpful. If you have any specific wuestions or concerns about a LCHF diet, this is the group to ask ;)
  • dancing_daisy
    dancing_daisy Posts: 162 Member
    For anyone else interested this in an article in a UK newspaper today. Though its not a scientific study it is a first hand account.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3691808/Quitting-carbs-saved-life-Cancer-victim-given-months-live-refuses-chemo-claims-diet-meat-dairy-s-alive-two-years-later.html
  • carlsoda
    carlsoda Posts: 3,432 Member
    I am currently in the middle of cancer treatment (no chemo but rads) and have been eating LCHF for almost a year. I did however get derailed during Christmas and into about March with too many celebrations. The one thing I think about, when I had my last mammogram back in late October I was fine but I found the tumor in early April. It developed and grew quite a bit in 6 months and became invasive. My MO seemed a bit shocked how fast it grew. Now would it have grown faster if my body was full of sugar. I think it probably would have. The big benefit to this way of eating is I feel it will help my healing process and I feel better eating this way. I think the extra fat and protein will help with your WBC count too!! I will send you a friend request so you can check out my diary. I basically eat the same thing almost every day but it's foods I love :)

    Good luck to you in this quest...I think it will help you tremendously!
  • carlsoda
    carlsoda Posts: 3,432 Member
    For anyone else interested this in an article in a UK newspaper today. Though its not a scientific study it is a first hand account.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3691808/Quitting-carbs-saved-life-Cancer-victim-given-months-live-refuses-chemo-claims-diet-meat-dairy-s-alive-two-years-later.html

    Love it! It's nice to read these personal stories!
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    For anyone else interested this in an article in a UK newspaper today. Though its not a scientific study it is a first hand account.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3691808/Quitting-carbs-saved-life-Cancer-victim-given-months-live-refuses-chemo-claims-diet-meat-dairy-s-alive-two-years-later.html

    Sadly I have a 40 year old friend that has had surgery, radiation and now is in chemo for this same cancer. I would liked to have screamed look at all of your options but they had already decided before I knew about it plus there are major concerns about saying something to others. I am doing about the fifth different cancer protocol testing for safety on myself should cancer pop up in my family where I will feel free to talk to them about options they can read about.

    It was when the doctors that wanted me to start Enbrel injections for pain management that I looked into how to treat cancer myself. Nutritional ketosis managed my pain in just 30 days so I never started on Enbrel but I never stopped studying how doctors outside of the USA prevent/treat cancer.

    I am convinced in most cases Cancer only takes root after a major failure of our health/immune system and that diet can play a major role in preventing or recovering from the wrong way of eating.

    This guy was given 15 months I think with Chemo and 9 months without. I will not drive across town to save ten cents a gallon on gas if it is a hassle. Surgery, Chemo and Radiation sound like a hassle for 6 months. I knew an old man that had lived a hard life came up with lung cancer. After the treatments started he go so sick he stopped it all. Yes he died but before he did he recovered enough to start driving again and spending active time with family and friends. Two weeks ago I was talking with the father who's 59 year old son just died from lung cancer. He told me the treatments make life worse and shorter it in hindsight. He has no medical training so it is just the observation of a parent.

    Medical decisions are left up to each person. I just wish people knew their options. Yes there are some forms of cancer that are VERY treatable but 15 months vs 9 months sounds about equal in my book. This guy's 9 months has turned into 24 months and he is still walking and talking which sounds better than only 15 months being sick the entire way out. Life is made up mainly of unknowns.

    I no longer have a fear of cancer. While I may come up with cancer any day I now know I am now eating/living in a way helps prevents or cures cancer and if it happens that I was doing all that is known to do to keep/recover my health. Death is coming but I have stopped trying to rush it.
  • neweuquol
    neweuquol Posts: 62 Member
    Doctors don't know everything. I was originally given 3 months to live, that was May 2015.

    I have an extremely rare form of sarcoma (which is rare in of itself) and there is literally zero data on what works and what doesn't.

    I don't mind being a n=1 because that's all I am anyway.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    So how are you settling into the diet? No problems with electrolyte imbalances? Have you stocked up on easy LCHF foods?

    Hope it's going well.
  • neweuquol
    neweuquol Posts: 62 Member
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    So how are you settling into the diet? No problems with electrolyte imbalances? Have you stocked up on easy LCHF foods?

    Hope it's going well.

    I am doing well. I am still struggling to reach fat levels, having no problems staying under 20 net carbs (after subtracting fiber), and I usually reach protein goals.

    I have decided on macademia nuts as a snack. Looks like 1/4 cup will really elevate fat without drastically increasing carbs.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    edited July 2016
    Macadamia nuts and cheese are kryptonite to my willpower. I have to measure it out or I can easily over a cup of macadamia nuts in one sitting. Especially with a bit of added salt, coconut and some cacao nibs.

    Geez. Now I want nuts... ;)

    Or a bowl of whipped cream for dessert... yum.

    Have you tried bulletproof coffee or bulletproof chai tea for an extra fat hit? I make mine in a secure travel mug that I can carry around and shake to remix it. Coconut oil's mct can help one make ketones even without a very low carb diet - helpful for those just starting out.

    Glad it's going well so far.
  • neweuquol
    neweuquol Posts: 62 Member
    edited July 2016
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    Macadamia nuts and cheese are kryptonite to my willpower. I have to measure it out or I can easily over a cup of macadamia nuts in one sitting. Especially with a bit of added salt, coconut and some cacao nibs.


    Have you tried bulletproof coffee or bulletproof chai tea for an extra fat hit? I make mine in a secure travel mug that I can carry around and shake to remix it. Coconut oil's mct can help one make ketones even without a very low carb diet - helpful for those just starting out.

    Glad it's going well so far.

    So I'm not crazy for going to Costco and getting a massive number of sandwich bags. I will have to keep myself from grabbing more than one bag a day for sure.

    I've never had more than 5 cups of coffee in my life. I'm 38.

    ETA: I meant the tiny snack size bags.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    No no. You are only crazy for not drinking coffee. Life's nectar. A mother's patience. ;)

    Chai tea is nice with butter and coconut oil. And extra cinnamon.

    And if you are trying to gain weight, don't use too tiny of a snack bag. ;)
  • MyriiStorm
    MyriiStorm Posts: 609 Member
    This thread is timely for me, as I was diagnosed with malignant melanoma three weeks ago. At that time, I was about two weeks into LCHF, and I immediately wondered, "Should I go back to my previous WOE?" The articles I have read about keto and cancer don't all agree that it is helpful, but everything I've read agrees that cancer cells thrive on glucose. That's all I needed to know to encourage me to continue restricting my carbs.

    Surgery is scheduled for this Thursday, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it has not spread past the one area on my arm. Meanwhile, I'm going to keep enjoying HWC in my coffee, and all the other yummy low-carb stuff I get to eat every day.
  • neweuquol
    neweuquol Posts: 62 Member
    MyriiStorm wrote: »
    This thread is timely for me, as I was diagnosed with malignant melanoma three weeks ago. At that time, I was about two weeks into LCHF, and I immediately wondered, "Should I go back to my previous WOE?" The articles I have read about keto and cancer don't all agree that it is helpful, but everything I've read agrees that cancer cells thrive on glucose. That's all I needed to know to encourage me to continue restricting my carbs.

    Surgery is scheduled for this Thursday, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it has not spread past the one area on my arm. Meanwhile, I'm going to keep enjoying HWC in my coffee, and all the other yummy low-carb stuff I get to eat every day.

    If you want I can send you a link to a clinical trial that investigated a ketogenic diet on people who had run out of conventional options. It was sponsored by NIH. Basically more research needs to be done but I am not sure how you do that without locking people in a room and controlling their food.

  • MyriiStorm
    MyriiStorm Posts: 609 Member
    neweuquol wrote: »
    If you want I can send you a link to a clinical trial that investigated a ketogenic diet on people who had run out of conventional options. It was sponsored by NIH. Basically more research needs to be done but I am not sure how you do that without locking people in a room and controlling their food.
    Sure, I'd love to read it. Thanks!

  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    MyriiStorm wrote: »
    This thread is timely for me, as I was diagnosed with malignant melanoma three weeks ago. At that time, I was about two weeks into LCHF, and I immediately wondered, "Should I go back to my previous WOE?" The articles I have read about keto and cancer don't all agree that it is helpful, but everything I've read agrees that cancer cells thrive on glucose. That's all I needed to know to encourage me to continue restricting my carbs.

    Surgery is scheduled for this Thursday, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it has not spread past the one area on my arm. Meanwhile, I'm going to keep enjoying HWC in my coffee, and all the other yummy low-carb stuff I get to eat every day.

    Sorry to hear that @MyriiStorm .

    After two years of studying/testing cancer prevention/treatment protocols from Europe and Asia in case cancer should pop up in the family it seems many things like LCHF, Vit D3, MSM, PeakImmune 4, ashwagandha, Q-10, prayer/mediation/yoga and the list can go on forever show some promise in some people/animal research. Something that may be true for one may be the opposite for another.

    The only common thread I have found is in most cases for some reason our eating/ lifestyles/other disease/meds have permitted our immune systems to fail to the point the cancer that is always forming in all people does not get mopped up daily.

    So in short in my view anything that helps keeps our immune system strong protects against or may help recover from cancer BUT there is no black and white science that supports that so the AMA (USA) seems to only approve Rx meds.

    So far I have not ran into any protocols that did me any harm and I found the items needed on Amazon.

    Work with your doctors because Rx meds and natural treatments can be deadly if mixed or they could be synergistic. Read and goggle the subject if interested but do keep your doctors in the loop. Some do know about using food as medicine.

    Best of success in your upcoming surgery. At the age of 65 I have decided there are few "knowns" in medicine or life in general.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    Good luck to you @MyriiStorm
    neweuquol wrote: »
    MyriiStorm wrote: »
    This thread is timely for me, as I was diagnosed with malignant melanoma three weeks ago. At that time, I was about two weeks into LCHF, and I immediately wondered, "Should I go back to my previous WOE?" The articles I have read about keto and cancer don't all agree that it is helpful, but everything I've read agrees that cancer cells thrive on glucose. That's all I needed to know to encourage me to continue restricting my carbs.

    Surgery is scheduled for this Thursday, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it has not spread past the one area on my arm. Meanwhile, I'm going to keep enjoying HWC in my coffee, and all the other yummy low-carb stuff I get to eat every day.

    If you want I can send you a link to a clinical trial that investigated a ketogenic diet on people who had run out of conventional options. It was sponsored by NIH. Basically more research needs to be done but I am not sure how you do that without locking people in a room and controlling their food.

    I'd like to see that link too. Could you also please post it on this thread?
  • neweuquol
    neweuquol Posts: 62 Member
    nvmomketo wrote: »

    I'd like to see that link too. Could you also please post it on this thread?

    Did not know if that was permissible. I did not want to give the appearance I was giving medical advice :)

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4215472/

  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    Thanks so much! That was interesting.

    It looks like they used the classical ketogenic diet ((0% fat, 2% carbs, 8% protein) rather than nutritional ketogenic diets. I wonder if the higher protein, and slightly higher carbs, makes any difference in the diets helpful effects?
  • lodro
    lodro Posts: 982 Member
    Just tagging on to say: "keep it up!". I've got benign astrocytoma, which is only benign in the sense that it doesn't metastasize. My strategy is to prevent lesions and inhibit the growth of tumors as much as possible. Research suggests that a ketogenic diet would be beneficial, coupled with a high level of ketones.
This discussion has been closed.