If you're in ketosis, do macros matter?
Cryren8972
Posts: 142 Member
I couldn't think of a better title that would convey what I'm asking...so forgive me if it's vague.
I have been on 20g net carbs for a couple of months now. I seem to do better with around 40g net carbs, as far as brain fog and sleep are concerned.
My question is this....I have been losing weight VERY slowly on 20g of net carbs. Is it likely to stop altogether if I bump it up to 40g every day? I mean...ketosis is ketosis, right? Or do you lose weight faster the more strictly you limit your carbs?
I have been on 20g net carbs for a couple of months now. I seem to do better with around 40g net carbs, as far as brain fog and sleep are concerned.
My question is this....I have been losing weight VERY slowly on 20g of net carbs. Is it likely to stop altogether if I bump it up to 40g every day? I mean...ketosis is ketosis, right? Or do you lose weight faster the more strictly you limit your carbs?
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I would say they matter, I mean if you're in ketosis and are describing problems with brain fog and sleep, are you getting an adequate fat intake? Your body needs either carbs or fat as an energy source to regulate hormones and all sorts of other bodily functions which can affect sleep. Bumping your carb intake up might help with some side effects but why are you having those side effects? Perhaps you're deficient in another area? I'd try adding/upping intake of MCT's such as coconut oil and make sure you're replenishing your electrolytes by using things like lite salt, broth, and avocadoes (another good source of healthy fat too) or you'll get things like light headedness/fatigue. While LCHF/being in ketosis is a muscle sparing WoE you also need to eat a moderate amount of protein as well which will keep you from losing muscle and help with hunger pangs (I believe 0.7 – 0.9 grams per pound of body weight is generally recommended).
Personally, I lose a whole lot faster the lower carb/deeper in ketosis I am, however, studies have shown even light to moderate levels of ketosis are sufficient for fat burning; it just takes longer.5 -
As far as weight loss (or brain fog) - macros don't matter at all to me.
I have (unfortunately) lost weight a number of times, using three different methods: calorie counting, controlled portions for everything but veggies (which amounted to a natural calorie cap), and low carb/keto with a calorie cap. That means that I have ample data to compare whether macros matter for me.
The loss has been at a virtually identical pace each time - when I intentionally ate carbs (because, for me, they keep cravings away) v. when I was deliberately limiting carbs; the same pace when I was intentionally avoiding fats (eating some fats triggers cravings for me) v. when I was eating approximately 60 grams of fats a day. For me, personally, the key is a calorie deficit - the means by which I create it makes absolutely no difference as to the speed of weight loss.
If I was not diabetic, I would not be eating a low carb/ketogenic diet - and if I succeed in reversing it I will be increasing my carb consumption. Not likely as high as it was, but more than I am currently eating.
I wasn't sure about the brain fog, until my boss noticed a change in affect one day and commented on it. I realized that I hadn't tested my blood glucose yet, after eating a food I hadn't verified was OK for me to eat - and sure enough, it was high. So I've been more attentive, and every time I've notiiced the fog/flatness, it was linked with an elevated blood glucose level (anything above 130), not content of food.
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As far as weight loss (or brain fog) - macros don't matter at all to me.
I have (unfortunately) lost weight a number of times, using three different methods: calorie counting, controlled portions for everything but veggies (which amounted to a natural calorie cap), and low carb/keto with a calorie cap. That means that I have ample data to compare whether macros matter for me.
The loss has been at a virtually identical pace each time - when I intentionally ate carbs (because, for me, they keep cravings away) v. when I was deliberately limiting carbs; the same pace when I was intentionally avoiding fats (eating some fats triggers cravings for me) v. when I was eating approximately 60 grams of fats a day. For me, personally, the key is a calorie deficit - the means by which I create it makes absolutely no difference as to the speed of weight loss.
If I was not diabetic, I would not be eating a low carb/ketogenic diet - and if I succeed in reversing it I will be increasing my carb consumption. Not likely as high as it was, but more than I am currently eating.
I wasn't sure about the brain fog, until my boss noticed a change in affect one day and commented on it. I realized that I hadn't tested my blood glucose yet, after eating a food I hadn't verified was OK for me to eat - and sure enough, it was high. So I've been more attentive, and every time I've notiiced the fog/flatness, it was linked with an elevated blood glucose level (anything above 130), not content of food.
I haven't been able to lose weight any other way. I am losing weight on low carb, but it's been slow. I know everyone's body is different, but I've only dropped 10 lbs. I guess I'm bemoaning all the effort with very little reward.
It is interesting that you mentioned blood sugar. I don't have diabetes, but back in my 20s, when I was starving myself to lose weight, I was diagnosed with low blood sugar during a work related physical. My sugar was 45 that day.
I have noticed on this woe, that I will "crash" if I go too long without eating (usually unintentionally, I'm just not hungry), and the low blood sugar symptoms will hit. I get irritable and shaky, and I have to grab something quick. I wonder if something's going on there...0 -
JTyler2016 wrote: »I would say they matter, I mean if you're in ketosis and are describing problems with brain fog and sleep, are you getting an adequate fat intake? Your body needs either carbs or fat as an energy source to regulate hormones and all sorts of other bodily functions which can affect sleep. Bumping your carb intake up might help with some side effects but why are you having those side effects? Perhaps you're deficient in another area? I'd try adding/upping intake of MCT's such as coconut oil and make sure you're replenishing your electrolytes by using things like lite salt, broth, and avocadoes (another good source of healthy fat too) or you'll get things like light headedness/fatigue. While LCHF/being in ketosis is a muscle sparing WoE you also need to eat a moderate amount of protein as well which will keep you from losing muscle and help with hunger pangs (I believe 0.7 – 0.9 grams per pound of body weight is generally recommended).
Personally, I lose a whole lot faster the lower carb/deeper in ketosis I am, however, studies have shown even light to moderate levels of ketosis are sufficient for fat burning; it just takes longer.
I do tend to do better on days that I have more fats. I need to concentrate more on getting those in. I have a BPC every morning, and that always helps, but the rest of the day, I just concentrate on carbs. So thank you!
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Cryren8972 wrote: »...I seem to do better with around 40g net carbs, as far as brain fog and sleep are concerned.
My question is this....I have been losing weight VERY slowly on 20g of net carbs. Is it likely to stop altogether if I bump it up to 40g every day?
I am so not an expert and I've only recently found what clicks for me so, do consider that when reading my thoughts on your question.
With that being said, you'll only know if you try it. Give it a month and see how it goes. I don't think anyone here can say for sure how your body will react.
Insomnia got worse for me initially but it went away once I got my supplements in order and once I started deliberately planning carbs for the evening. All of my daytime meals are really low in carbs so at night I add some berries to my Minute Cheesecake or chia pudding or I'll have a dinner that's higher in carbs (vegetables and a salad vs one or the other and maybe a sauce with some carbs in it). The magnesium, multivitamin, getting my electrolytes in during the day and carbing it up a bit at night solved the problem for me. Your mileage will vary.
Best of luck on your journey. Your observations and paying attention to how your body reacts will help you find what works for you, I'm sure of it.
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Cryren8972 wrote: »I couldn't think of a better title that would convey what I'm asking...so forgive me if it's vague.
I have been on 20g net carbs for a couple of months now. I seem to do better with around 40g net carbs, as far as brain fog and sleep are concerned.
My question is this....I have been losing weight VERY slowly on 20g of net carbs. Is it likely to stop altogether if I bump it up to 40g every day? I mean...ketosis is ketosis, right? Or do you lose weight faster the more strictly you limit your carbs?
"Brain fog" is usually due to insufficient sodium intake.
Poor sleep can be due to higher cortisol levels.
What's the difference between 20g and 40g? With 20g, you'll lose more sodium, and you'll have higher cortisol levels.
So, yeah, the level of carbs matters a lot for some things.
For weight loss? Not so much.7 -
Ketosis gets you burning off all your glycogen stores. Some argue that it also burns fat with excess protein once glycogen is gone.
In my experience, you can still eat too many calories of fat and protein and stall your weight loss. Way too many calories in can't be overcome by ketosis.
If you are at 20-40 carbs a day and not losing weight I would look at how far over the normal calorie amount you are.
I have lost 130 pounds and am at the last 10or so to get to single digit body fat percentage. I have to keep a sanity check on calories, no matter what source they are from. Lower carb eating just works for me. It is the easiest way to feel full and eat a wide variety of nutritional foods within a reasonable calorie range.
Best wishes in finding your best way to make it all work!6 -
Macros matter- how would you know you are in ketosis without keeping macros in check? unless you meant that -caring for only one single Macro "Fat".3
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I thought I was 'doing it right' but my weight loss stalled after the 1st 2 weeks. I was googling around and finally found information specific to LCHF weight loss that gave me that much needed 'AHA!' Hope you find this helpful. Good Luck!
http://ketodietapp.com/OpenOutbound.aspx?url=https://youtu.be/2KYYnEAYCGk?t=3m28s
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I just wanted to add, my 'aha'! was realizing my %Fat was way too high for weight loss. I needed to adj. my Fat intake down to around 65% as well as watch my daily calories. (see pie charts in image above)
As a Keto newbie, I thought the more Coconut Oil I ate, the more weight I would lose. DOH!3 -
"Brain fog" is usually due to insufficient sodium intake.
Poor sleep can be due to higher cortisol levels.
What's the difference between 20g and 40g? With 20g, you'll lose more sodium, and you'll have higher cortisol levels.
So, yeah, the level of carbs matters a lot for some things.
For weight loss? Not so much.
@wabmester - I was wondering about a cortisol or HGH connection, but I wasn't aware that a VLC diet could raise cortisol levels... The answer may be obvious, but if you're comfortably keto-adapted, why would your body start panicking and produce more cortisol?
Thanks!1 -
NonnaTurtle wrote: »I just wanted to add, my 'aha'! was realizing my %Fat was way too high for weight loss. I needed to adj. my Fat intake down to around 65% as well as watch my daily calories. (see pie charts in image above)
As a Keto newbie, I thought the more Coconut Oil I ate, the more weight I would lose. DOH!
Yeah, that's what trips a lot of keto dieters up at various points. Many don't realize that a caloric deficit still has to be there, in order to propagate weight loss. They just assume cutting carbs out will cause the fat loss on it's own. However, if you were eating 3000 kcal/day at 50% carbs, 40% fat, and 10% protein, switching it to 3000 kcal/day of 5% carbs, 65% fat, 30% protein isn't going to make you drop any weight, beyond the initial glycogen/water purge.3 -
"Brain fog" is usually due to insufficient sodium intake.
Poor sleep can be due to higher cortisol levels.
What's the difference between 20g and 40g? With 20g, you'll lose more sodium, and you'll have higher cortisol levels.
So, yeah, the level of carbs matters a lot for some things.
For weight loss? Not so much.
@wabmester - I was wondering about a cortisol or HGH connection, but I wasn't aware that a VLC diet could raise cortisol levels... The answer may be obvious, but if you're comfortably keto-adapted, why would your body start panicking and produce more cortisol?
Thanks!
Coritsol isn't just for panic. It also wakes you up in the morning, for example (which is why it's associated with sleep problems).
But the thing cortisol always does is tell the liver "we need more glucose!" So it makes sense if you're running low on glucose, as might be the case in extreme carb restriction.
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@Gallowmere1984
Thanks for the good guidance! It's great to have help getting all the pieces in place.0 -
NonnaTurtle wrote: »I thought I was 'doing it right' but my weight loss stalled after the 1st 2 weeks. I was googling around and finally found information specific to LCHF weight loss that gave me that much needed 'AHA!' Hope you find this helpful. Good Luck!
If you're a beginner and have already made your way to Stephen Phinney's presentations, you're well on your way!
Phinney and his collaborator, Jeff Volek, are both very informative. If you're really thirsty, you might be interested in their book, "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living," which is packed with great info, or "New Atkins for a New You," their update of the Atkins diet that's intended for a more popular audience and full of menu and diet recommendations.0 -
Working2BLean wrote: »Ketosis gets you burning off all your glycogen stores. Some argue that it also burns fat with excess protein once glycogen is gone.
In my experience, you can still eat too many calories of fat and protein and stall your weight loss. Way too many calories in can't be overcome by ketosis.
If you are at 20-40 carbs a day and not losing weight I would look at how far over the normal calorie amount you are.
I have lost 130 pounds and am at the last 10or so to get to single digit body fat percentage. I have to keep a sanity check on calories, no matter what source they are from. Lower carb eating just works for me. It is the easiest way to feel full and eat a wide variety of nutritional foods within a reasonable calorie range.
Best wishes in finding your best way to make it all work!
My calories are mostly on the really low side. Some days I struggle to get in 800 calories. Some days, I'm starving, and I eat the whole 1500. Rarely do I go over that. I think there was one day in 2 months that I hit over 1500 for the day...and that was right at the beginning when my body was begging for SOMETHING. lol...
Honestly, the reason I decided to try low carb was because nothing else was working. Low calorie diets didn't work for whatever reason, so I thought I would try something different. I assumed since my body wasn't responding to low calorie, that I may be experiencing hormone issues or insulin resistance. Given the low blood sugar thing, I figure it's the latter.
It's been a frustrating 3 years for me because I feel as if I've dieted through most of it with nothing to show for it.
THIS diet is working the best so far.....I want that to continue.
Thank you all for your wonderful advice so far! 0 -
@RalfLott
Thanks for the great feedback and recommendations. For me, striving to understand the science behind this woe will help me find my personal Keto macronutrients sweet-spot, specifically for weight loss.
Once I fully understand it, I will be able to see the Keto matrix
thanks again!2 -
It does help to try to get a handle on the science and to try to figure out just where on the spectrum you fall.
As you've already discovered, there are some folks around these parts who not only know a lot but are happy to give you $5 worth of advice for free.1 -
I wasn't sure about the brain fog, until my boss noticed a change in affect one day and commented on it. I realized that I hadn't tested my blood glucose yet, after eating a food I hadn't verified was OK for me to eat - and sure enough, it was high. So I've been more attentive, and every time I've notiiced the fog/flatness, it was linked with an elevated blood glucose level (anything above 130), not content of food.
@neohdiver, I am guessing that what you call "fog" would pass as "brilliance" for most of us mortals.
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Cryren8972 wrote: »My calories are mostly on the really low side. Some days I struggle to get in 800 calories. Some days, I'm starving, and I eat the whole 1500. Rarely do I go over that.
This would help raise cortisol levels and stall/slow weight loss too... 800 calories especially less is really low, and that is why macros would matter.
I try hitting my macros first, calories second (if you're measuring/calculating properly your macros should be in the very near proximity of your calorie deficit anyway), and make sure I'm supplementing electrolytes. i.e. Sodium, Potassium, Magnesium, Calcium as they are all things we lose through sweat and our bodies flush on keto; and being deficient in even one can make you miserable.
To get large amounts of calories in small amounts of food, try looking up some fat bomb recipes. If you're low on calories one day, nom on a couple fat bombs. They have some delicious recipes out there.1
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