When do you decide that LCHF just isn't working for you?
photo_kyla
Posts: 322 Member
I having a really hard time right now. I WANT to be thinner. I'm working really hard at it. And NOTHING. This is going to be long, but I just need to be able to talk to someone.
My weight has always been an issue, I can't even remember my first diet, but over the past 12 years my weight went from 267 -> 210 -> 240 -> 200 -> 175 -> 200 -> 240 -> 250 -> 210 -> 250. I wish there was a way to post the graph on here to show how ridiculous it is.
Until now, though, it's always followed the rule that if I really buckled down and counted calories and moved more, I would lose 1-2 pounds per week. I also started doing Keto (under 20g of carbs per day) during that last loss.
I had knee replacements on both knees about 2 months apart last summer. Since then I haven't been able to lose weight, not matter what I do.
Before the first surgery I was 210lbs, which is still over weight for my 5'7" height, but not so bad on my weight loss spectrum. After surgery I was supposed to be resting and healing and not stressing my new joints, and they told me to let myself recover. There was also some food pampering, and the weight just piled on. I was back up to 250lbs by Christmas.
I started a diet and exercise regime, got back on the Keto wagon, and expected to lose the weight by April (back to ~210-220lbs) if I really worked at it. I was doing the elliptical for 1 hr, stair climber for 30 min, and exercise bike for 15 for 3-4 days a week with estimated calorie burns around 900+ calories each day. I was keeping my macros in check and eating around 1400 cal/day. And only 4 lbs lost in 3 months time. I went to the doctor and asked her to check if there was anything thyroid related. All of my labs came back beautiful. Great cholesterol, great HDL, great LDL, great blood pressure, good thyroid levels. The doctor said there was no reason she could see that I was not losing weight.
I've been trying to stick to it, because it has to change eventually, right? I'll admit, there were some times that I went back to eating junk food, but I never went too crazy my weight never fluctuated by more than an couple pounds. I kept up my workouts at the gym until it closed for summer (it's at a college). Since June, I've been walking for exercise and starting the first of July, I went back to really watching my Macros. I bought a Fitbit about a month ago and have been averaging 20-25 miles/week. And all I've done is go down and up the same couple pounds that I've been doing since January.
I honestly am at the "what's the point?" place. I HATE counting and measuring and food restrictions and it's just adding insult to injury to work so hard at it and not see any change on the scale. (I actually trained to be a baker and love carbs and baked goods, but have cut them out in this effort for better health and weight loss.)
My ultimate goal for weight loss and life is to get to a place where I'm active enough in my daily life that I can enjoy the food that I want without having to measure everything. I've been there before when I lived overseas. I spent 6 months in Venice (5 years ago), eating and walking everywhere and not dieting at all and I didn't gain pound the whole time, and I was 200lbs then.
If I had a fairy to wave a magic wand my goal weight would be 150lbs, but I'd be happy to be in that 175-200lbs range again. Now that I seem to be firmly stuck at 245-250lbs, I don't know what to do.
Do I throw the diet out of the window and just enjoy my life and work on accepting that this simply IS my body shape? Based on past experience, as long as I don't go too crazy I'm not going to gain more than a couple pounds, and I wouldn't have to constantly be trying to figure out how to be sociable without blowing my diet. It would be a huge stress reducer.
Or do I cut my calories drastically and remove the LCHF restriction? Right now I eat about 1500 calories per day (which should be a 2lb per week weight loss by MFP standards). My first major weight loss, I was eating under 1000 calories/day for 6 months and dropped 50lbs with minimal exercise. I'm afraid that I might have to go that low again to see any change. If I knew that I'd actually lose weight, it might be worth it, but the stress from all of the counting and the self hatred and depression every time that I step on the scale and see a gain instead of a loss are really taking their toll.
My weight has always been an issue, I can't even remember my first diet, but over the past 12 years my weight went from 267 -> 210 -> 240 -> 200 -> 175 -> 200 -> 240 -> 250 -> 210 -> 250. I wish there was a way to post the graph on here to show how ridiculous it is.
Until now, though, it's always followed the rule that if I really buckled down and counted calories and moved more, I would lose 1-2 pounds per week. I also started doing Keto (under 20g of carbs per day) during that last loss.
I had knee replacements on both knees about 2 months apart last summer. Since then I haven't been able to lose weight, not matter what I do.
Before the first surgery I was 210lbs, which is still over weight for my 5'7" height, but not so bad on my weight loss spectrum. After surgery I was supposed to be resting and healing and not stressing my new joints, and they told me to let myself recover. There was also some food pampering, and the weight just piled on. I was back up to 250lbs by Christmas.
I started a diet and exercise regime, got back on the Keto wagon, and expected to lose the weight by April (back to ~210-220lbs) if I really worked at it. I was doing the elliptical for 1 hr, stair climber for 30 min, and exercise bike for 15 for 3-4 days a week with estimated calorie burns around 900+ calories each day. I was keeping my macros in check and eating around 1400 cal/day. And only 4 lbs lost in 3 months time. I went to the doctor and asked her to check if there was anything thyroid related. All of my labs came back beautiful. Great cholesterol, great HDL, great LDL, great blood pressure, good thyroid levels. The doctor said there was no reason she could see that I was not losing weight.
I've been trying to stick to it, because it has to change eventually, right? I'll admit, there were some times that I went back to eating junk food, but I never went too crazy my weight never fluctuated by more than an couple pounds. I kept up my workouts at the gym until it closed for summer (it's at a college). Since June, I've been walking for exercise and starting the first of July, I went back to really watching my Macros. I bought a Fitbit about a month ago and have been averaging 20-25 miles/week. And all I've done is go down and up the same couple pounds that I've been doing since January.
I honestly am at the "what's the point?" place. I HATE counting and measuring and food restrictions and it's just adding insult to injury to work so hard at it and not see any change on the scale. (I actually trained to be a baker and love carbs and baked goods, but have cut them out in this effort for better health and weight loss.)
My ultimate goal for weight loss and life is to get to a place where I'm active enough in my daily life that I can enjoy the food that I want without having to measure everything. I've been there before when I lived overseas. I spent 6 months in Venice (5 years ago), eating and walking everywhere and not dieting at all and I didn't gain pound the whole time, and I was 200lbs then.
If I had a fairy to wave a magic wand my goal weight would be 150lbs, but I'd be happy to be in that 175-200lbs range again. Now that I seem to be firmly stuck at 245-250lbs, I don't know what to do.
Do I throw the diet out of the window and just enjoy my life and work on accepting that this simply IS my body shape? Based on past experience, as long as I don't go too crazy I'm not going to gain more than a couple pounds, and I wouldn't have to constantly be trying to figure out how to be sociable without blowing my diet. It would be a huge stress reducer.
Or do I cut my calories drastically and remove the LCHF restriction? Right now I eat about 1500 calories per day (which should be a 2lb per week weight loss by MFP standards). My first major weight loss, I was eating under 1000 calories/day for 6 months and dropped 50lbs with minimal exercise. I'm afraid that I might have to go that low again to see any change. If I knew that I'd actually lose weight, it might be worth it, but the stress from all of the counting and the self hatred and depression every time that I step on the scale and see a gain instead of a loss are really taking their toll.
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Sorry you are struggling so much. I can tell by what you're saying your cortisol levels must be through the roof. I don't know all the details on cortisol but I do know that the more stress you put on your body the harder it will be to lose. My recommendation would be too set a moderate deficit, weigh and log everything for a few weeks, relax in the exercise and go from there.6
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"My ultimate goal for weight loss and life is to get to a place where I'm active enough in my daily life that I can enjoy the food that I want without having to measure everything."
I'm blunt, I know. Exercise has far less of an impact on weightloss than people suppose. One question: do you eat back your exercise calories?4 -
"I went to the doctor and asked her to check if there was anything thyroid related. All of my labs came back beautiful."
Did you actually see the labs? Did you get a copy?
I ask because most doctors haven't got any real idea about thyroid disease; not how to diagnose it, and not how to treat it. Your TSH may have fallen at the upper range of what is considered normal -- but at that level you would actually be hypothyroid and need treatment.
I suggest going back to your doctor and getting a copy of the lab results. Post them here if you like.5 -
I agree with @lauracoth my numbers fall in the normal range but I feel best when they are on the low end. It's different for everyone so it doesn't hurt to question it. Plus they usually only run tsh but that doesn't tell you how your body is functioning there are more tests that can be done for that0
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SO sorry you are having so many problems! It can be extremely frustrating. First I would say throw away the scale an allow your body to heal. Cutting calories more is not the answer. Read some of this very inspirational blog. Keto does not work for everyone and neither does LC. http://myzerocarblife.jamesdhogan.com/wp/2015/01/my-doctor-said-lose-100-pounds/3
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I also had "normal range" thyroid tests for awhile then all of a sudden the next test was crazy. Might be worthwhile to have your hormones checked as well. I had to fight then change doctors to get mine done but when I did I found out I had premature ovarian failure and all of my hormone levels were low. I gained all of my weight because of the hormones and thyroid issues. I had been 135lbs, changed absolutely nothing in my diet or exercise and gained 100+ lbs in a year. Currently 37 and post menopausal. Hormones are a *kitten*.
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Are you having any NSVs? Clothes are looser, fewer chins (in my case
), less cravings? There have been weeks without any scale losses for me, but my shorts have all but fallen off! Something I read here and stays with me through the frustrations of the lying liar pants scale is "Keep Calm and Keto on!" Good luck!! 2 -
So sorry to read your blog and know that you are struggling. Firstly, forget what MFP says about weight loss per week. It hasn't been correct EVER for my macros, so throw that out the window. Second, stress may be playing a part, best to try and relax into your eating plan (I know easier said than done). You may be overexercising, causing more stress and @lodro is correct: no one can out exercise a poor eating plan. Numerous recent studies have shown that exercise, while good for the mind and heart, does not aid much in weight loss. As others have said, get a good hormone workup to make sure all is on a level keel.2
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"My ultimate goal for weight loss and life is to get to a place where I'm active enough in my daily life that I can enjoy the food that I want without having to measure everything."
I'm blunt, I know. Exercise has far less of an impact on weightloss than people suppose. One question: do you eat back your exercise calories?
I agree with lodro. On LCHF, when you're in ketosis, what you eat is more important than exercise for losing weight. Despite what we've been told for decades, exercising is not the key. Exercise is good for us, yes, but to lose weight it's the distribution of calories and what we're eating that'll lead to long term weight/inches lost. I've aimed to eat 75-80% of my calories in fat, 15-20% in protein, and 5-10% in carbs--and it works! I exercise and lift weights for about an hour, 3x week, to stay firm and flexible. Yoga also helps with stress. I'm sending positive vibes your way!
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"If I knew that I'd actually lose weight, it might be worth it, but the stress from all of the counting and the self hatred and depression every time that I step on the scale and see a gain instead of a loss are really taking their toll."
What you say here really breaks my heart because I can relate so much! If it helps at all, this is what worked for me: I didn't get on my scale for months when I started LCHF two years ago. Instead, I had a pair of pants that were way too small that I called "my goal pants". I would try those on every week. Eventually, they fit. Yay! Then, they got too big. Yay! So, I got another pair of "goal pants" and did this again...and again. After about 5 months and a lot of people noticing my changed appearance, I got the courage to weigh myself--and I'd lost over 30 lbs! The numbers on the scale don't mean much and can just hinder us emotionally. It's evil.
You are beautiful at any number... so just focus on your health as you "Keto On" and get some goal pants (or a goal top or a dress) Get Fit, Don't Quit! 15 -
Are you having any NSVs? Clothes are looser, fewer chins (in my case ), less cravings? There have been weeks without any scale losses for me, but my shorts have all but fallen off! Something I read here and stays with me through the frustrations of the lying liar pants scale is "Keep Calm and Keto on!" Good luck!!Chitchatkat wrote: »I had a pair of pants that were way too small that I called "my goal pants". I would try those on every week. Eventually, they fit. Yay! Then, they got too big. Yay! So, I got another pair of "goal pants" and did this again...and again. After about 5 months and a lot of people noticing my changed appearance, I got the courage to weigh myself--and I'd lost over 30 lbs! The numbers on the scale don't mean much and can just hinder us emotionally. It's evil. You are beautiful at any number... so just focus on your health as you "Keto On" and get some goal pants (or a goal top or a dress) Get Fit, Don't Quit!
I wish I was having NSVs. Unfortunately the clothes have been agreeing with the scale. The one NSV I've seen is that my endurance is much better than it used to be. Four miles is a piece of cake, it just requires me to dedicate the time for it (as opposed to driving). Before school ended for summer, I had days where I'd walk 2 miles to the school, do 8 miles on the eliptical, and then walk 2 miles home; and that's huge for me considering that I couldn't walk normally for almost 3 years before the knee surgery. (My knees didn't bend at all, so I walked straight legged. I still walked, but it was awkward and I couldn't go as fast.)"My ultimate goal for weight loss and life is to get to a place where I'm active enough in my daily life that I can enjoy the food that I want without having to measure everything."
I'm blunt, I know. Exercise has far less of an impact on weightloss than people suppose. One question: do you eat back your exercise calories?
I've been eating back some. My MFP calorie goal is set at 1320, and I usually eat around 1500. I've been focused much more on keeping the carbs down than keeping the calories under 1320. My goals now are 70% cal/fat 25%cal/protein and 5% cal/carbs.0 -
I honestly wonder if you're stressing your body too much with too much hard exercise. It's a possibility.
Also, if you have any health issue or injuries even unknown ones, your body will focus on healing and weight loss may not occur at the same time. Even gains make sense during healing. My daughter gained 20 pounds in 2 days after starting Keto. Now, that was water weight that her body put on so that it could begin to heal. She was very ill. But she didn't lose it and gained another 10 pounds the following weeks. Now it's been 6 months that she's been low carb, she still about 25 pounds up (though she actually did need to gain some weight) but her A1c went from something greater than 14 to within her goal range at 6.9. It actually was 7 within the first 9 weeks.
Her case is extreme but it does show that the body will do whatever it needs to do to become healthy. So, not losing weight could make perfect sense. Don't let the lack of losses take away from the better health.
If you're not going to make this a lifestyle, you're probably setting yourself up or failure anyway, so you may as well see it through and relax investing yourself half to death trying to force weight loss with so much exercise. Unless you're actually enjoying it. Ease up a bit and just focus on eating the right foods (real food) and learning to follow hunger and reduce the number of times a day eating is necessary. If you're finding you're hungry within a few hours of eating, you probably didn't eat the right food or enough food at that time.
Eating too often can hinder results as well. And hard, frequent exercise can make you feel more hungry and be counter productive and that doesn't even consider the stress it causes.3 -
I agree with @Sunny_Bunny_ , completely! Exercise can work against some people. For me, it causes pain (inflammation and gains on the scale). I've made it to goal without it! LCHF is now my lifestyle, not something I will abandon just to be able to eat the foods that made me ill (fat and don't love me!)!
You have to make the choice for yourself whether you want to commit to yourself, or not. But, no, exercise isn't the answer to eating whatever you want! Sorry if this bursts your expectations of food choices. Also, continuing to eat the foods you think you love will continue the cycle of inflammation, leading to zero weight loss.
Best of luck with the choices you make!3 -
I have to have low, low cals and under 20 carbs to lose weight. 45 years of yoyo-ing between 150-300 pounds damaged my 5'7" body, and that is the truth. I kept meticulous data for two years and when I went over my low cal/carb limit I stopped losing, even regained some, and am now getting ready for another go at relosing about 20 pounds.
My calorie numbers are way below what is considered healthy, and I closed my diary due to unsolicited negative comments, but kept doing what I could see was working for me.
My health and energy levels have never been better and I've managed to keep 110 pounds off for over a year, even counting a regain while trying and failing at maintenance.
To make the story shorter, listen to your own body responses and go from there. Don't forget that most advice from well wishers may work for them, but we all are here because of our own food issues and no one knows better than you do about what works for your own body. Tracking honestly and every day really helps with a reality check that is yours alone.
If you lose at a certain number of cals/carbs, do that.. and pay attention to macros and the quality of food and supplements that you eat so you feel less deprived and are nourished.
I decided at a certain point that I was healthier and happier without the weight on my body ... and my bloodwork and energy levels now prove that my choices worked well for me!
I had to use a walker to get around in a store two years ago. Now I can dance for hours at a time and I feel so alive. So what if my calories don't add up to what someone else says is right ...for them.
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I will share some personal experience - please take it as that, because YMMV.
1. If my stress levels are too high, exactly zero weight can be lost no matter what I do. Cortisol affects your adrenal system, which is an essential system to weight loss. There are some Super Hippie ways to improve adrenal function, i.e. yoga, meditation, journaling, intentional self-care. You can Google "ways to reduce cortisol levels" or "adrenal fatigue" and find mechanisms people use to manage stress. I use a guided meditation app about 10 minutes a day and, dumb as it sounds, it works.
2. For me it is essential that I take a season off from training. I am a long distance cyclist, runner, and swimmer. My body will not tolerate doing those three things year round, so I have 3 months of the year where I am a short distance runner, short distance cyclist, and I don't swim. That recovery phase allows me to train REALLY hard for 9 months of the year. The alternative is fighting fatigue and sickness and walking the line of injury.
3. I cannot consume dairy as any calories from dairy go directly to my thighs and tummy. No matter how much I reduce my calories, if I am consuming dairy regularly, zero weight is lost.
4. You've trained your body to fluctuate weight. This is going to suck to hear, but it may be harder to lose weight and keep it off as a result of that. Maybe your body won't be happy to try to lose 2lbs a week. Try only attempting to lose 1lb per week, perhaps. Or just try to maintain your current weight.
5. Throwing your $%^*ing scale away. If you can't step on the scale without sinking into depression and self-hatred, get rid of the scale. You're doing yourself no favors with that kind of destructive behavior. Find a different health metric as your guide.9 -
I decided that it wasn't working for me on day nine. I had to up my carbs because the lower-middle end of LCHF triggered my arrhythmia for some reason and that was becoming scary and unmanageable as it got progressively worse from day to day.
I wanted to do the low carb after reading so much about the benefits and got in ketosis fairly quickly (based on Ketostix, for what that's worth) on a low-mid amount of carbs (40-90 grams) likely due to my activity level. Then my body started holding onto water, no matter what kind of electrolyte supplementation/balance I tried. I had severe and uncomfortable ankle swelling all day and an arrhythmia almost all the time with particularly bad episodes around 3-4 AM.
I increased my carbs to the high 150 g low-carb limit over the last few days and I'm finally feeling better (though I am considered very active with distance running and strength training). Weight fell off as my body dropped water. I've found my appetite has lessened to the point where I have forgotten to eat my planned afternoon snack the past few days (I always thought those posters who said they forget to eat were BSing).
I think as co_lau mentions, cortisol is a factor for me.
A kinesiologist told me that when you're trying to burn fat, you need to keep cardio sessions at a low intensity (less than 75% mhr) and no longer than 45 minutes for best results. Also, don't trust your Fitbit for calorie burns or distances. It's not accurate for everyone. It was way off for me. If I ate what Fitbit tells me to lose 1 pound/week, I'd gain close to a 1/2 pound/ week.
Lastly, I have to weigh and log everything—and even then I might not lose (you can check my profile to see all the months I either lost nothing or gained). Honest and complete logging takes some getting used to but becomes easier after a while.
Keep adapting, learning, and trying new things. As long as you persist, you'll get where you want to go.4 -
I will share some personal experience - please take it as that, because YMMV.
4. You've trained your body to fluctuate weight. This is going to suck to hear, but it may be harder to lose weight and keep it off as a result of that. Maybe your body won't be happy to try to lose 2lbs a week. Try only attempting to lose 1lb per week, perhaps. Or just try to maintain your current weight.
^^This.
In my opinion this is the reason a lot of people struggle with CICO...myself included. Any prolonged calorie reduction will have a negative impact metabolism and this makes it harder to keep the weight off. Simply put if you maintained at 2000 cals/per day and then dieted for 6 months at 1400 you now probably maintain somewhere closer to the 1400.
A lot of people have had success 'resetting' their metabolism by very slowly increasing calorie counts by 50grams per week from the low number they dieted at and were able to get back to a very reasonable(and sometimes pleasantly higher) maintenance level.
It's a hard thing to do because it takes effort and doesn't immediately contribute to most people's goals of losing weight or inches...but in the grand scheme it can be a huge step forward.
From a low carb perspective resetting would involve gradually going up x carbs per week which I will be doing starting in October 10 grams per week until I get to a level where my weight stays constant. I did it many years ago and it worked very well for me.
To the OP I saw that you went as low as 1000 calories per day for extended periods..this is very low and no doubt has affected your metabolism. If it were me I would consider a reset...there's lots of info on the web on how to approach it.
Good luck!
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[quote="photo_kyla;10443603"I honestly am at the "what's the point?" place. I HATE counting and measuring and food restrictions and it's just adding insult to injury to work so hard at it and not see any change on the scale. (I actually trained to be a baker and love carbs and baked goods, but have cut them out in this effort for better health and weight loss.)
My ultimate goal for weight loss and life is to get to a place where I'm active enough in my daily life that I can enjoy the food that I want without having to measure everything. I've been there before when I lived overseas. I spent 6 months in Venice (5 years ago), eating and walking everywhere and not dieting at all and I didn't gain pound the whole time, and I was 200lbs then.[/quote]
As others have said, it could be stress and cortisol, and it could also be some other food allergy/chemical sensitivity/endocrine issue. Many of us, myself included, had to go through years of investigation to finally solve the obstacles we had to losing weight and finding health. If you really want to solve this, you'll need to find a good functional medicine doc and buckle down for some serious testing and investigating.
The other thing that concerns me for you is the quote above. It MAY be possible for you to get to a place where conscious, intuitive eating keeps you healthy (depending on what the docs ultimately discover to be your obstacle), but your hatred of the process is going to make it much more difficult. Firstly because of the stress of doing something you hate, secondly because it's very difficult to get and remain fully invested in a process you despise that may take years to resolve.
Those two values conflict - the desire to be healthy and the desire to be able to eat whatever you want whenever.
My father has a similar problem - he also has two conflicting values. He so wants to be light and fit so he can ride and backpack at a high level of performance, but he is so addicted to carbs and so committed to continuing to eat them that he sabotages himself. He basically spends half his time feeling bad because he can't just eat what he wants, and spends the other half of his time feeling bad because he's too heavy to reach his athletic goals. It's lose/lose for him and for those of us around him.
My very strong advice is to pick one value and run with it. Pick the one that is most important to you and be happy, not stressed thinking you should be doing something different! Life is too short.5 -
5. Throwing your $%^*ing scale away. If you can't step on the scale without sinking into depression and self-hatred, get rid of the scale. You're doing yourself no favors with that kind of destructive behavior. Find a different health metric as your guide.
THIS EXACTLY! I'm learning that this journey is a marathon, not a sprint. It took me many years to gain all this weight so its not going to melt away in a couple of months. Secondly, I started this journey to get off my diabetic meds and so far, my blood sugars are bloody fantastic and I feel great! I have more energy and now doing exercise which I thought I wouldn't be able to again lol All of these NSV's beat whatever the scale tells me (which can change hour to hour I've come to find out)!
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I love exercise too and find my body does better when I'm active. But I agree with the others that you've gone up and down so many times, you'll find it harder and harder each time you try to lose. My numbers are similar to yours.. 5'8" and 208CW. I've lost a significant amount of weight two times in my life and notice how this time it's much more difficult (and slower) than it was before. I'd stay Keto just for the fact that it helps with the cravings. Eat real food, keep carbs low and keep moving forward.1
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Grasping the idea that it is the BODY which decides HOW food/calories are used is tough one..fortunately recent videos from LC conferences (one a metabolic one) proved we DON'T have the control we think.
This one explains we always show the FAT storage happening in one direction as in too much food eaten=stored fat..but WHAT IF it's the opposite? The FAT is stored and the body drives hunger to bring more in for t's own reasons...now that's a concept!!! In that case we are simply following instinct driven by deep body wisdom.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zpi5Lir_eJs
David Ludwig, MD, PhD -- 2016 Metabolic Therapeutics Conference Presentation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8rrgsABNjE
Jeff Volek, PhD -- Keto Diet Presentation at the 2016 Metabolic Therapeutics Conference
Jeff Volek at his BEST!
And Dr. Fungs "2 compartment theory" makes EASY listening of his complex blog and theories, WELL explained for anyone..even your co-workers and family.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIuj-oMN-F1
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