Please Help Decipher Thyroid Tests
JessicaLCHF
Posts: 1,265 Member
So here are my levels as of yesterday.
Free Triiodothyronine is 2.5
Free Thyroxine is 2.2
Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) 1.57
I do not have a thyroid. I feel my levels are off, and my hair is falling out in handfuls. My primary told me these levels are fine, and I see my endocrinologist Monday. Should I be happy with these levels? What would I ask him about? I'm currently on 200mcg of Synthroid.
All my other levels look good except for magnesium. It was 1.5 three months ago when I was taking 400 magnesium supplements a day, and he told me to double it. I did, I've been taking 400 twice a day since then, and my level is still low at 1.5! I think that means I'm not absorbing it? I don't know if it impacts my other issues (hair loss), but I'm getting worried.
Free Triiodothyronine is 2.5
Free Thyroxine is 2.2
Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) 1.57
I do not have a thyroid. I feel my levels are off, and my hair is falling out in handfuls. My primary told me these levels are fine, and I see my endocrinologist Monday. Should I be happy with these levels? What would I ask him about? I'm currently on 200mcg of Synthroid.
All my other levels look good except for magnesium. It was 1.5 three months ago when I was taking 400 magnesium supplements a day, and he told me to double it. I did, I've been taking 400 twice a day since then, and my level is still low at 1.5! I think that means I'm not absorbing it? I don't know if it impacts my other issues (hair loss), but I'm getting worried.
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Make sure you take a look at how your supplements work with and/or against each other. There are sites that will help you determine if you are taking something that's making your mag ineffective. Here are a couple, but there are tons more.
https://www.consumerlab.com/answers/Which+vitamins+and+minerals+should+be+taken+together+or+separately/how-to-take-vitamins/
http://www.livestrong.com/article/496844-which-vitamins-should-not-be-taken-together-at-the-same-time/
and check out this one on Thyroid (I know it's a sign up and spend money site but there's some helpful info) - http://thyroidlovingcare.com/rethinking-normal-ranges
I was hypo many years ago (before my surgery) but I was still in the "normal range". I was miserable and finally a surgeon (go figure) told me he thought just because my panel was normal that didn't mean it was normal for me. He put me on synthroid and within a month I was "all better". Just because your panel is "fine" according to the suggested norms, that does not mean it's fine for you.0 -
Have you had Reverse T3 tested? That will tell you if the medicine is actually being used by your cells, or if your body is just dumping the T4 into unusable RT3. When we don't have a thyroid, it is so hard to figure out dosages--I feel your pain! I'm not a doctor, but I would guess you need less Synthroid and then add some Cytomel (T3). Hugs!2
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I agree with gentlereader75 - and would add that you would need to include the reference ranges the labs use to get really useful information as to what your numbers mean. Labs often use different reference ranges (what is low, and what is high).
I have my thyroid, but I take both synthetic T4 adn synthetic T3 because my body is not so hot at converting T4 into the happy hormone (T3) rather than the sad hormone (RT3) - as my doctor refers to them.1 -
I was going to ask what your total T4 (thyroxine) was, and your Reverse T3 (Triiodothyronine). Without those numbers, the rest is useless, really.
Your TSH is in the range where you should feel okay, though you may need to be even lower to feel good. @LauraCoth said that her endo/naturopath doc said most folks feel best between 0.5-1.5...
But that being said, if you've flipped somehow and gone Hashi's or anything, these numbers will be wonky anyway...0 -
And I third the suggestion about getting the Free and Reverse done on T3. My PCP ran these for me, and it showed that I wasn't converting or using T3...
Which, by the way, if you have any iron issues, any digestion issues, B12 or D3 or other deficiencies, including magnesium, this means you're likely chronically low on stomach acid, which is critical for thyroid functioning in the body (whether by production or usage of meds). If you don't have enough stomach acid, you can't convert T4 to T3, and you can't use it.
So I would definitely look into this aspect. The more I read and learn, the more convinced I become that EVERYTHING ties back to the gut and digestive impairments...1 -
Also, you need to look at these numbers in the context of the lab's ranges -- can you post these
(Oops -- my bad - @neohdiver already posted this)
In my case, a TSH of 1.57 would be too much. Apparently, most people feel well when their Free T4 is in the upper half of the normal range, and Free T3 in the upper 25%. To achieve this, you might need either more medication OR some T3, OR natural desiccated thyroid hormone (which has T4 and T3).2 -
KnitorMiss, I think you're on to something! I just heard from my primary she wants me to add vitamin C (not sure why) because she thinks my night oniprozole (Prilosec for heartburn) is stopping my magnesium absorption! I bet it IS doing the same with synthroid. I might play with eating earlier and trying not to take it - usually my heartburn wakes me up tho if I haven't taken it, and I need to take maalox or something to be able to sleep. I'll definitely check those things out when I talk to the endo.
I'll post reference ranges. The numbers to look at are the results from 9.28.16. I don't know why they don't post chronologically.
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Your T3 is on the low end of the range. When mine gets that close to the bottom - particularly in combination with a high rT3 - my doc wants me on cytomel (synthetic T3). Because my T4 was also on the low end, he didn't drop it - (although he might, in the future, if it seems to be plentiful but going astray (to rT3, rather than T3) (He draws, but doesn't really care about, the TSH - since it isn't a direct measure of anything important.)0
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Wow, @JessicaLCHF - the fact that your TSH is swinging so wildly, just over a month, then 4 months, then 5 months. I know you don't have a thyroid, but that would tell me, whatever you were doing from before February through June was not right for you. Looks like you've been more level since then (though it looks like you swung the other way, almost), but something still seems *not right* about all this.
I can't remember if we've ever talked about using digestive enzymes and stomach acids in place of the heartburn meds? I use to get such bad bile heartburn attacks I would wake up choking on burning bile. I'm glad I got off all the mess. Since getting on the enzymes etc., the only times i get any heartburn now are when I eat too many carbs.
@Karlottap can elaborate more on why that medicine is bad for your health long term, if I remember right... Taking Prilosec if you're just producing extra of the stomach acids you do make just makes this whole situation worse. Most heartburn is not because you have too much acid - it's generally more because you're missing a key acid, which then results in overproduction of the other acids to attempt to correct, causing the imbalance. Add in the missing acid(s), balances it all out... Anyway, that's a soapbox for another day...
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »Wow, @JessicaLCHF - the fact that your TSH is swinging so wildly, just over a month, then 4 months, then 5 months. I know you don't have a thyroid, but that would tell me, whatever you were doing from before February through June was not right for you. Looks like you've been more level since then (though it looks like you swung the other way, almost), but something still seems *not right* about all this.
I can't remember if we've ever talked about using digestive enzymes and stomach acids in place of the heartburn meds? I use to get such bad bile heartburn attacks I would wake up choking on burning bile. I'm glad I got off all the mess. Since getting on the enzymes etc., the only times i get any heartburn now are when I eat too many carbs.
@Karlottap can elaborate more on why that medicine is bad for your health long term, if I remember right... Taking Prilosec if you're just producing extra of the stomach acids you do make just makes this whole situation worse. Most heartburn is not because you have too much acid - it's generally more because you're missing a key acid, which then results in overproduction of the other acids to attempt to correct, causing the imbalance. Add in the missing acid(s), balances it all out... Anyway, that's a soapbox for another day... LOL
He said the high tests were lab errors. I've been through the wringer with it since I had it removed. They accidentally stunned my parathyroid so I was on 9000 calcium a day for a while. I'm still on 2000. Plus calcitriol to make my body use it. Overall I'm a mess!
Last visit he said stay the course. This visit I'm not going for that cause I'm going bald! Tho maybe the deletion of oniprozole will fix everything. That's a new med for me for about a year now (before that I used Tagamet, but it was interfering with my ultra low calcium). I'll ask about the cytomel, too. Never heard of it.
As far as stomach enzymes, definitely a road worth exploring to get off another med (Prilosec). I literally take 20 pills a day now between meds and supplements. Plus the pain meds I'm still on from my two shoulder surgeries this summer.
Glad I asked these questions before my doctor visit. Any idea why my primary things 500 vitamin C is going to help with the magnesium absorption? Ever heard that?0 -
Also, KnitorMiss. What enzymes do you use. And could I get those through good like yougurt or kombacha? Kombacha is big up here in Vermont but I've never tried it.0
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I have been looking into heartburn a lot lately, particularly related to digestive issues. No where near figuring it out but was interested in a few articles that suggested/stated that heartburn in MOST people is not an indicator of too much stomach acid - it simply means whatever acid you have is getting up into your esophagus where it doesnt belong. That doesnt mean you make too much - it could mean you have no where for it to go (i.e. you ate a ton and stomach is too full - a problem for people like me who had VSG and have a tiny tummy), it could mean the "flap" that is supposed to keep the stuff in your stomach is a little lax, it could be simply laying down too soon after eating, it could be posture related - ie. hunching over when you eat is like crimping a hose, etc. ANd low stomach acid can also cause heartburn. Taking antiacids or acid reducers makes the issue worse usually, but even more it causes extra issues (or exacerbates them). For example, if you have low stomach acid (either naturally or due to antiacids) your food might be getting into your intestines undigested - causing IBS type symptoms. If food is not being broken down enough before it enters the intestines it wont be able to absorb properly either as it is supposed to be in its simplest form. So some vitamin or mineral deficiences can result over time, etc.
I am by far at a "solution" but reading all this was enough to stop me from taking any more acid reducing stuff - unless and until my doc can prove I have "too much" stomach acid, I will work out the heartburn issue another way. I am playing with all these ideas (posture, not eating too close to bedtime, types of food, gut bacteria, supplementing acid HCL, etc) until I figure it out !
Good luck.1 -
I try to eat early and better foods at dinner (no chili, tho I had it last night!) and sometimes that works.
Didn't take my meds and didn't have heartburn last night (ate at 6, bed at 10), but it was only the first night.
I expect I'll get it now and then, but I'm thinking maybe I'll just use Maalox when I do? I'm going to discuss it with both my doctors.0 -
Just heard from my primary. She wants me to come in next week to discuss tapering off the oniprozole and eventually getting off it. So that's great! She said not to stop it cold as that usually fails because there is a rebound in stomach acid if you do that.
Well, one problem down.1 -
JessicaLCHF wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »Wow, @JessicaLCHF - the fact that your TSH is swinging so wildly, just over a month, then 4 months, then 5 months. I know you don't have a thyroid, but that would tell me, whatever you were doing from before February through June was not right for you. Looks like you've been more level since then (though it looks like you swung the other way, almost), but something still seems *not right* about all this.
I can't remember if we've ever talked about using digestive enzymes and stomach acids in place of the heartburn meds? I use to get such bad bile heartburn attacks I would wake up choking on burning bile. I'm glad I got off all the mess. Since getting on the enzymes etc., the only times i get any heartburn now are when I eat too many carbs.
@Karlottap can elaborate more on why that medicine is bad for your health long term, if I remember right... Taking Prilosec if you're just producing extra of the stomach acids you do make just makes this whole situation worse. Most heartburn is not because you have too much acid - it's generally more because you're missing a key acid, which then results in overproduction of the other acids to attempt to correct, causing the imbalance. Add in the missing acid(s), balances it all out... Anyway, that's a soapbox for another day... LOL
He said the high tests were lab errors. I've been through the wringer with it since I had it removed. They accidentally stunned my parathyroid so I was on 9000 calcium a day for a while. I'm still on 2000. Plus calcitriol to make my body use it. Overall I'm a mess!
Last visit he said stay the course. This visit I'm not going for that cause I'm going bald! Tho maybe the deletion of oniprozole will fix everything. That's a new med for me for about a year now (before that I used Tagamet, but it was interfering with my ultra low calcium). I'll ask about the cytomel, too. Never heard of it.
As far as stomach enzymes, definitely a road worth exploring to get off another med (Prilosec). I literally take 20 pills a day now between meds and supplements. Plus the pain meds I'm still on from my two shoulder surgeries this summer.
Glad I asked these questions before my doctor visit. Any idea why my primary things 500 vitamin C is going to help with the magnesium absorption? Ever heard that?
First Answer - Vitamin C is a co-factor in absorbing and processing many other vitamins... (I know it's considered a cofactor to serotonin absorption/creation.) I take 2000 mg vitamin c daily. @Sunny_Bunny_ takes 8000-10000 mg, if I remember correctly. It's one of those things your body dumps if it has too much... According to Dave Asprey (BP guy), it's necessary for collagen formation, support of connective tissues, and helps manufacture powerful antioxidants. You can take up to 120 grams a day with no side effects other than loose stool. Take at morning and night, but not after workout as it can negate insulin sensitivity gained from working out... Lots of info in there... 500 mg seems like a small dose, though it is way over the RDA...0 -
JessicaLCHF wrote: »Also, KnitorMiss. What enzymes do you use. And could I get those through good like yougurt or kombacha? Kombacha is big up here in Vermont but I've never tried it.
You might be able to ...but I can't tolerate those anymore. The histamines in them triggered migraines for me. Drinking a small amount of kombucha helped with my non-gallbladder/digestive/dumping issues, but so do the enzymes.
I take apple cider vinegar (switched from liquid to pills at my doc's suggestion to protect my teeth and such) and NOW brand Super Enzymes (amazon) with each meal. Heartburn, gone. Diarrhea, mostly gone (still triggers with high fat and mega high sodium). Burping/farting noxious fumes - gone unless I eat carbs. Can *feel* certain supps now, which tells me they're being better absorbed/utilized. Many more things not coming to mind offhand.1 -
Any doctor telling me two separate test readings on my TSH, months apart, were "testing errors?" I would either fire the lab - or the doctor - or both. That's insane. How can you trust ANYTHING that comes out of that lab???1
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Awesome! You're a wealth of information! Thanks so much.0
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Calcitrol has major warnings not to use with antacids and such... Also, please please please tell me you're taking K2! Without K2, that calcium and D are just cluttering up your veins and arteries. They don't know where to go, how to get there, or the password to get in without Calcium, D, K2, Magnesium, Potassium, and Boron as a combo. Seriously. Docs are starting to get on board with this. Also, any high doses of calcium and vitamin D need to be balanced with good fish oil and Vitamin A offset 12 hours from D...to prevent toxicity of Calcium and D building up where it doesn't need to be...0
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »Any doctor telling me two separate test readings on my TSH, months apart, were "testing errors?" I would either fire the lab - or the doctor - or both. That's insane. How can you trust ANYTHING that comes out of that lab???
I agree. It threw up red flags. Its the lab at the hospital for this area. It's a small town and he's the only endocrinologist, and I've had him fifteen years. He caught my hashis in the first place. I'm definitely going to call him on it tho if he tries to pass me off as being fine this time. My appt is Monday. I'll let you know.
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@JessicaLCHF - And updates? Or did you make a separate thread? I was looking back for something else and ran across this thread.0
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JessicaLCHF wrote: »So here are my levels as of yesterday.
Free Triiodothyronine is 2.5
Free Thyroxine is 2.2
Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) 1.57
I do not have a thyroid. I feel my levels are off, and my hair is falling out in handfuls. My primary told me these levels are fine, and I see my endocrinologist Monday. Should I be happy with these levels? What would I ask him about? I'm currently on 200mcg of Synthroid.
All my other levels look good except for magnesium. It was 1.5 three months ago when I was taking 400 magnesium supplements a day, and he told me to double it. I did, I've been taking 400 twice a day since then, and my level is still low at 1.5! I think that means I'm not absorbing it? I don't know if it impacts my other issues (hair loss), but I'm getting worried.
Free T4 (thyroxine) is slightly above normal
Units for Free T3 would help...2.2 ng/mL? serum are very low. Seems like Liothyronine in addition would help if these are indeed the correct units. However, your endocrinologist would be the best fitted person to determine what's best for you. Your values are also dependent on your Albumin levels as T3 & T4 are highly protein bound (determines your free levels).0 -
@VKetoV - so out of curiosity, if my Albumin levels have always been low on the range since 2011 (3.0-3.4), does that indicate to you that I probably need to increase protein? Total protein was also low and has been (average 7), but I have dehydration numbers showing (nearly my entire CMP panel dropped down into the lowest ends of the ranges, when I'd been on the improving side...). With the dehydration stuff, I'd been worried about too much protein, but doc said maybe to increase? We did increase both T4 and T3 meds this time around, too, but I don't want to be not having enough protein to support my existing LBM... The eGFR number was good, he said, the higher the better...
Date of Last Result//Test//Result//Ref Range
19-Oct-16 //Total Protein //6.9 G/DL //6.1-8.7 g/dL
19-Oct-16 //Albumin //3.8 G/DL //3.6-5.0 g/dL (calc)
19-Oct-16 //Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) //2.87 mIU/L //0.4-2.0 mIU/L
19-Oct-16 //Free Thyroxine (T4) //1.0 ng/DL //0.8-1.8 ng/dL
19-Oct-16 //Free Triiodothyronine (T3) //2.9 pg/mL //2.3-4.2 pg/mL
19-Oct-16 //Blood Urea Nitrogen //22 MG/DL //7-25 mg/dL
19-Oct-16 //Creatinine //0.64 MG/DL //0.5-1.10 mg/dL
19-Oct-16 //BUN/Creatinine Ratio //34.4 //6-22 (calc)
19-Oct-16 //eGFR MDRD //112 mL/min/1.73m2 //>60 mL/min/1.73m2
While everything for the most part is technically in range, it still has me confused...and I just can't kick this dehydration mess!0 -
I don't think it would be wise to increase protein, more albumin binds with thyroid hormone (free) lowering free T3 & free T4. BUN is running on the high side too. Based on your most current.
Pretty difficult to get vitamin D toxicity as conversion can take weeks0 -
How does vitamin D toxicity play into it? I'd been using monitored higher doses to get my levels up, but they were at like 107 this time (100 is the upper limit), so I've dialed back to the lower weight-based dose for maintenance, and I plan to have my PCP retest at the end of the month... I take A and fish oil and such to prevent the toxicity... @VKetoV - I just want a score card so I know what it all means!!! Drives me bonkers.0
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »@JessicaLCHF - And updates? Or did you make a separate thread? I was looking back for something else and ran across this thread.
Update is he says my labs are fine. He thinks my hair loss is due to having two surgeries six weeks apart this summer. For now im taking a wait and see attitude. Still losing hair.1 -
Vitamin C is not going to do much unless you are taking a timed release version.
If you are having trouble absorbing magnesium orally, try topically, it's more bioavailable through the skin.
Magnesium and calcium will compete for absorption, so don't take those together.
I have heard of people using coconut oil massaged into the scalp to reverse hair loss.0 -
JessicaLCHF wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »@JessicaLCHF - And updates? Or did you make a separate thread? I was looking back for something else and ran across this thread.
Update is he says my labs are fine. He thinks my hair loss is due to having two surgeries six weeks apart this summer. For now im taking a wait and see attitude. Still losing hair.
@JessicaLCHF I also had two surgeries this year, six weeks apart (one in early May, the second near the end of June). Like you, I had significant hair loss as a result. I'm still having a little loss, but not nearly as much as I had over the summer and early fall. It's not uncommon to have hair loss after a major surgery, and with two so close together, your body really gets stressed. Hopefully, your hair will improve soon.
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Thanks. My calcium is due to a previous thyroidectomy where they accidentally stunned my parathyroid. Not sure why im always low on magnesium. Im down from 8000 calcium (8 Tums extra strength spread throughout the day) plus calcitriol and D, to only two Tums. My endocronologist is trying to get me all the way off if my parathyroid can handle it. I just switched acid reducers for acid reflux to see if that help with my magnesium absorption. So far it seems to be slightly hurting my calcium absorption! Lol. So I can either have low calcium or low magnesium! Oy vey.0
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@JessicaLCHF - I can't remember, did we ever talk about adding boron to help your parathyroid?
I know this is kind of the opposite of your parathyroid being stunned, but there's lots of great parathyroid health info here... gwens-nest.com/what-i-didnt-know/
And the related boron article she references: HERE0
This discussion has been closed.