Fitbit calories vs reality

Gena575
Gena575 Posts: 224 Member
edited December 3 in Social Groups
I've felt for a good while that my Charge HR was overestimating calories out. I sat down with numbers this morning and that theory held true.

Current stats: Female, 41, 5'5, 213lbs. Starting weight on 5/29/16 248. Weight 6 weeks ago 221.8.

6 week average daily burn via Fitbit: 2901
6 week average daily intake: 1624
6 week total loss: 8.8
6 week average daily deficit by loss: 733
6 week average daily deficit by burn: 1277
6 week average daily deficit error: 544 (coincidentally, this is close to the non-exercise day burn that is shown in the HR section as time spent in fat burning HR)

I do weigh all home foods, eat out 1x per week, rarely 2x. I try to aim high for restaurant foods. I don't reweigh food if I don't finish bits to remove grams (toast crusts, fatty bits of meat etc). I'm as accurate as possible with my intake. I do my best to pick good entries in the database.

So. How can I adjust my fitbit settings to stop seeing and insanely low net after adjustments? Even set to active (I average 12-14k steps per day...I work retail), I often get 5-800 or more calories as an adjustment. I've been sticking to the 1600 +/- 100 for the majority of my time on mfp. Early was less, then more. But the past 10 weeks or so have been 1600 as my mental goal.

Or, potentially, have I borked my daily burn so badly in 16ish weeks that it's causing the error between what Fitbit calculates and reality? That seems far fetched to me, honestly.

Replies

  • NancyN795
    NancyN795 Posts: 1,134 Member
    Some people adjust their height and/or their age, I think, in order to get a different burn number from Fitbit, but that tends to throw other things off, I think, and I just didn't want to do it that way.

    What I did for a while, was just do a "Quick Add Calories" in MFP every day to offset the cumulative error of Fitbit overestimating my burn and me underestimating my intake. (I admit that logging accurately is hard for me to do long term - weighing every single bite makes me crazy, annoys my husband and so isn't good for my mental health or my marriage.)

    I need to get back to being stricter about my logging because I haven't been losing lately. I may try to be strict about it in October to get a baseline and reestablish some discipline.
  • Gena575
    Gena575 Posts: 224 Member
    @NancyN795 this is *after I adjusted my height down 2 inches in Fitbit! I actually forgot I did that. But *something is wonky here. The geek in me won't let it rest lol.
  • Clawsal
    Clawsal Posts: 255 Member
    Hi, I'm also 5'5 and have a Charge HR and average 15'000 steps.
    Looking at data for the last two months, my TDEE is of 2556 according to fitbit.
    According to actual weight loss, my TDEE is 2'377.
    So the Charge HR is overestimating my burns by about 7.5%. I actually expected more of a difference! (something like 20%).
  • Clawsal
    Clawsal Posts: 255 Member
    If I were you I would check your logging.
    Also, if you are out of shape your heart rate will be very high even for moderate exercise. The charge HR will overestimate calories burned.

    So with your numbers: TDEE is of 2901 according to fitbit.
    According to actual weight loss TDEE is 2'357.
    Overestimating by 23%. That is quite a lot! I would only eat around 80% of the calories suggested by fitbit then.
  • mathiar86
    mathiar86 Posts: 26 Member
    I'm curious about this too.
    I am routinely coming under my calorie goal for the day, by a few hundred but plateau in weight loss, sometimes going up by maybe 0.5kg here and there.
    I'm wondering whether I'm putting too my in the daily calorie burn from steps that Fitbit gives me into myfitnesspal. I walk on average 8-9000 steps at work and routinely will go for a walk (mix of uphill and flat) with an HR average of 105 and usually 2-300 calories for that walk. Brings my calories expended for the day from exercise to about 4-600 depending on the day in MFP. That's a regular thing...


    How much faith do you put into your daily normal walking vs dedicated exercise for calorie deficit? Should I be doing another few hundred over and above to be safe?

    I'm getting an Apple Watch in a few weeks as a gift and I'm wondering how that's going to affect me as I've heard they aren't as accurate for calorie tracking as Fitbit.
  • Gena575
    Gena575 Posts: 224 Member
    edited September 2016
    Clawsal wrote: »
    If I were you I would check your logging.
    Also, if you are out of shape your heart rate will be very high even for moderate exercise. The charge HR will overestimate calories burned.

    So with your numbers: TDEE is of 2901 according to fitbit.
    According to actual weight loss TDEE is 2'357.
    Overestimating by 23%. That is quite a lot! I would only eat around 80% of the calories suggested by fitbit then.

    I'd really like to figure a way to chill Fitbit out on the excess calories. As it stands now I end up with insanely high adjustments and ignore 95% of them. My base, set to active lose 2lbs/week is 1600. So I aim for that. Some days I hit 1750, some days 1500. The past few weeks the scale is not playing nicely, but I've been more stressed than normal, gotten a flu shot (3lbs up the next am wtf?! Lol!) And am nearing ovulation. The stress is making me lethargic so my exercise has slipped some. I'm taking a 10 day diet break partly for the mental break and partly to see what happens with my losses after. The mental break has been glorious. And 3 days in I'm down .5. My body is as crazy as my fitbit! Lol!
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Sadly changing height to attempt to change daily calorie burn, also messes with the method of doing exercise calories based on HR which will use BMI (height/weight) with other stats.

    So being shorter to obtain lower BMR and resulting daily burn, also tells Fitbit that BMI is worse than it really is, and worse BMI with other stats can say that a HR of say 120 is burning more than it really would be.

    So anything that is being caught by HR-based calories is inflated - so if decent part of day is at that level - it's inflated.

    If rest of day is non-moving, being shorter isn't that much impact on daily calories.

    Now, Fitbit adjusting what it thinks your restingHR is should help some daily stuff not be tagged as exercise, but even that can be off for genetics or meds.
    Usually the lower your resting HR, the more fit you are, and therefore the lower your HR can be when exercise level starts (not by much, avg is still 90).
    But with meds or such you could have a higher restingHR, but normal HR when exercise starts. Or vice-versa sometimes.

    The totally step-based devices can be fooled decently by changing BMR, HR based not so much, more depends on what your daily routine is.
    And I'm betting yours is about opposite of what could be useful.

    But it's also true you can have your body burning lower than calculated avg by a decent amount, more than normal variance, because of undereating for too long.
    Fitbit is basing calorie burn on avg healthy body - many people don't start with that, or cause themselves to not have it anymore. So the calculations are off.

    Or their daily routine is such that the worst-accuracy calorie calculations are what's in play the majority of the time.
  • Naruya8
    Naruya8 Posts: 48 Member
    I'm finding the same thing. I haven't had my Fitbit for that long (have the Charge 2) so I don't have the numbers you have.. but I've had a fitness tracker long enough to know how much I usually burn and Fitbit is about 500 calories above that.

    In my case the problem is definitely the all-day HR monitor. My HR during exercise can get really high, up to the point where I should stop by normal standards because I shouldn't stay in peak HR that long. For about a year now I take beta-blockers for my migraines, and a happy side-effect is that my HR is lowered, which makes working out easier on me. I take the meds first thing in the morning but I bike to work about 20 minutes after that. The meds haven't taken full effect yet at that point so my HR is still higher, making the calories burned on that ride a lot higher than on my way back from work.

    During the day my HR should be normal though, and I think it is as it's between 58-80. I still end up with 2700-3000 calories burned every day though, whereas my old UP24 would give me only about 2200-2500 on similar days. Back then I also had an Apple Watch so during workouts I'd get similar results to the Fitbit so it's just the all-day calories that differ.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    edited September 2016
    Since the daily activity calories are step-based (except for times the HR is high enough for long enough to start using HR-based) - you might confirm the steps seem accurate enough (like not big spikes of steps when there should be none), and the distance for daily pace is right.
    If you do a lot of daily walking anyway that isn't causing HR-based calorie burn to be used, that stride length has a bigger bearing on daily calories then.

    But indeed - any meds that mess with HR are exactly why HRM calorie burn can be thrown off, as well as abnormally high, as it was prior it sounds like.
  • Gena575
    Gena575 Posts: 224 Member
    @heybales So what's the best course of action to correct things? Correct my height and leave HR turned off? My resting HR averages 71 in the first half of my cycle and jumps to 77/78 at ovulation. It drops again just before shark week. (TMI I'm sorry, but also quite fascinating). I feel a little frustrated at having paid extra for a feature that's causing inaccuracies. Would contacting fitbit do any good?
  • Gena575
    Gena575 Posts: 224 Member
    Also, I turned the HR off yesterday. Then compared to another day with similar steps (15605 yesterday vs 15428 on Sept 12) Both days were Mondays and work days. I did have 138 calories of exercise included yesterday that wasn't on Sept 12.

    Calories burned yesterday: 2972 (2834 before exercise)
    Calories burned Sept 12: 3265 with 583 coming from heart rate.

    I just want the numbers to work lol! This is crazy land.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Height adjustment, and manual correction to stride length, is a valid method of dealing with like a different BMR than Fitbit would calculate using Mifflin (or similar they actually use).

    Like I'm logged about 8 inches taller to deal with higher LBM and BMR than is calculated.

    Others might need to go lower. The normal variance of within 5% doesn't need correction, but 150-200 cal daily in my case I felt did so deficit wouldn't be too great and effect performance in workouts. Same amount going lower I think would benefit too. Sometimes merely having a good BF% estimate can give that clue.

    So the HR-based calorie burns should also be auto-tagged an as Activity Record, with perhaps a guess as to what the activity was if not selected.
    If you don't see those records, it shouldn't be using HR-based burn.

    If you look at the daily graph per 5 min blocks (for better detail than 15 min) - during times of non-moving - is the base level the same when the weight/height has been the same, even on different days?

    Perhaps things have changed, but it should be. Below exercise level estimating calories on HR is just plain inaccurate, I hope Fitbit didn't attempt to start doing that.
    That's why they used to do the restingHR as average daily low - to try to estimate where exercise level may be kicking in.

    Now - if you do have several Activity Records during the day, then it does think your HR is going higher enough for long enough to be a workout.
    And if you've had the device for over 2 weeks and HR hasn't changed massively, it isn't going to get better and start figuring it out.
    So indeed turn off HR unless really in a workout, I'd even suggest only on non-step based workouts - walking and running is fine to use step-based calorie burn. And lifting is never good estimate with HR either, so manually logged is better on Fitbit.

    And your metabolism as a woman does indeed change during the month. And that means heat output, and HR going higher to deal with that is right on. So good observation that is very true.
  • Gena575
    Gena575 Posts: 224 Member
    @heybales I do not have non-purposeful activities logged as a common occurrence. I did, but then changed the auto detect on walks to 45 minutes. I'll fire up the laptop and add a couple screen shots. I think today it has me in fat burning hr for over 2 hours, and claims over 800 calories. Insane! I do appreciate all the time and patience you've given this issue!

    Also, I almost want to break out the fertility thermometer to match data with the hr...the joys of being numbers driven lol.
  • Gena575
    Gena575 Posts: 224 Member
    Here are the two Mondays, with and without the HR function enabled during my work day, plus a bonus of today's insanity. Also, I've had the ChargeHR since June so it should know me by now.

    3mg3ai5nxwwm.png

    7civbl2v9ji9.png

    sq0w1abizygf.png
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Clearly it's counting below exercise level activity as worthy of HR-based calories, and assigning a HR zone to it.

    That is messed up, and perhaps that's a change from late last spring, which was last time I had someone test it.

    Or - despite your telling it to make the time longer to count - it's doing it anyway - which to me says bug.

    So at least I know you understand then - trying to explain those auto-created Activity Records if you've never noticed them is hard to do.

    And it appears originally it thought you were doing more workouts, I think the bug is it's paying attention when the HR goes up, likely the per-second logging of HR, and then when it doesn't reach 45 min as you've now set it, it is merely not creating a record - but it's still keeping the HR-based calorie burn when it shouldn't.

    I would actually submit that to Fitbit as an issue or bug, or troubleshooting it - though I'm betting they'll say reset it is all.

    Or perhaps someone else (though they could have bug too) could verify exactly what you've been seeing.

    Anyone else see these symptoms, almost exactly?
    Still does or used to have auto-created Activity Records (workouts) for just slightly elevated HR activity times during the day. May have auto-assigned HR zone activity level despite no exercise.
    HR graph may show per second logging during times of increased HR & activity, despite being daily activity only.
    What seems to be elevated calorie burn.
    Your resting HR stat seems to be correct, matching a low in the morning after wakeup (can look at daily graph for that).
  • Gena575
    Gena575 Posts: 224 Member
    And my reply from Fitbit lol. Blaming 150ish calorie burns from mapmyrun for all the inconsistencies lol. And explaining what BMR is. Do they even read the question? Lol!


    "We'd be happy to assist you with the calorie burn with your Charge HR.

    We appreciate your effort on observing your tracker's behavior. Upon checking on your account, we've found that in the past days were also manually logging your activities and sync through MyFitnessPal.

    In this case, please note that your basal metabolic rate (BMR) is the rate at which you burn calories at rest just to maintain vital body functions like breathing, heartbeat, and brain activity. Your BMR usually accounts for at least half of the calories you burn in a day and is estimated based on the physical data you entered when you set up your account: gender, age, height, and weight.

    The calorie burn estimate that Fitbit provides takes into account your BMR, the activity recorded by your tracker, and any activities you log manually.

    Your tracker's calorie count will reset each night at midnight and begin counting immediately thereafter. BMR is the reason your tracker starts the day with calories already burned—you've still burned calories even if you haven't gotten out of bed yet.

    We hope this gets you back on track. Let us know if you have additional questions."
  • HaibaneReki
    HaibaneReki Posts: 373 Member
    edited September 2016
    I can say only good things about Fitbit actually. After I lost almost 30 kilos and hit maintenance I was hovering around the same weight (+-1kg) for almost a year. After I started lifting I added 400kcal to my TDEE and started steadily leaning and adding muscle.

    All that time I would swear by the fitbit's adjustments with an occasional mishup here and there - weddings, birthday you name it.

    My setup is: MFP - sedentary and true data in fitbit, syncing weight and ~hitting my adjusted calories. Turning on workout mode during my gym sessions. So far so good. Gaining kgs, but leaning out.

    So I got back to ~83kg, but this time around it's a different story :smile:
  • NancyN795
    NancyN795 Posts: 1,134 Member
    @Gena575 : I was thinking about what you're seeing and it looks like your Fitbit is seeing an elevated heart rate and steps and translating that into calorie burn (which makes sense, since that's what it is designed to do).

    One question is whether your heart rate is being accurately measured by your Fitbit. You might try doing spot checks to see if what your Fitbit is measuring is accurate (I have an app on my phone that uses the camera to read my heart rate by putting my finger over the camera) or wearing a chest strap HRM for part of the day if you have access to one.

    If your Fitbit is accurately measuring your heart rate, but you just have a higher heart rate than normal, then maybe you could try changing the Max Heart Rate that Fitbit is using. I don't know if that affects when it uses heart rate data to compute calorie burn, rather than just using detected steps, but I do know that if you raise your Max Heart Rate it changes the exercise zones. For instance, using the default 220-age formula, my zones in Fitbit are: Fat Burn - 80; Cardio - 112; Peak - 136. (Yeah, I'm old.) But if I raise the Max Heart Rate by 10 BPM, they shift to 85, 119 & 145. What I don't know if that means that instead of kicking in the heart rate formula when my heart rate goes above 80 for a few minutes that it doesn't start using the formula until it gets over 85. But, you could try it. (You change the Max Heart Rate on the Personal Info page of the settings (that's on the website, I'm not sure where to find it on the mobile app).
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Excellent point - I keep forgetting they gave the ability to adjust that now. That should help effect it tied in with resting HR side of the range.

    @Gena575 - sorry to hear you experienced what I was afraid of. Tier 1 support that can't even comprehend the level you've already gotten to.
  • Gena575
    Gena575 Posts: 224 Member
    @NancyN795 yep, done that. I keep forgetting the tweaks I've made by lurking forums. I've got it set at 220 which is the max allowed. I've checked randomly, but not typically when it's going to be higher (times when I'm busy and moving quick at work).

    @heybales at this point it's becoming simply amusing. I replied to that email in essence that they totally misunderstood my issue.

    I *do think I *may have found a small source of the insane burn the past few weeks. I've automatically been counting 5 open notches when I put it back on. Apparently I've lost enough wrist fat I need to be on 6 open notches now. Changing that reduced the time in fat burning zone nearly 2 hours today vs yesterday. Still all daily activity though.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Interesting, I've think I've only heard of ones have HR reading issues not showing as high as reality.
    Like good accuracy up to a certain point then it has trouble reading the higher values, or it frequently drops readings at higher levels but sometimes sees them.

    So it appears you can have issue of it reading higher than reality. Hmmmmm.

    So got a lowish restingHR too, perhaps you are getting that almost double-pump action when HR goes up slightly for just slight activity increase, but not as high as it thinks of course.
    When you manually take HR, can you feel that effect sometimes?
    I can feel it at night trying to sleep on left side, if I had a hard workout that day I must be recovering from. Hard main beat, quick weaker secondary.
    Garmin HRM correctly picks up the fact since it's looking at reversal of electrical fields, optical can probably be fooled easier, as could human if not used to effect.
  • Gena575
    Gena575 Posts: 224 Member
    I don't think I've got any funky heartbeats going on. I suppose I could, but I do know even when I'm doing a video or walk/jog intervals 145ish is my high reading via fitbit itself. No way on earth am I working so hard to hit that walking inside on level ground. Heck, I'm not even sweaty!

    Still waiting on a reply to the 2nd email, but did another reset on the tracker first thing this morning. Lost 10 steps somehow lol. But, either they've tweaked something in my account or the reset corrected things this time maybe. I had a fairly low key day at work (only 13k steps lol) but it only tagged 13 minutes in fat burning zone. Vast improvement over the near 3 hours of some days last week. And my mfp adjustment is a mere 600 calories so far vs 1100. I can live with that as long as it holds. Still will probably only eat back half of those and give it 4-6 weeks and assess again.

    Thank you all for your help and hand holding with this!
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    That sounds like such a better improvement.

    I get a slight adjustment of 100-150 calories almost reaching 4000 steps on my truly sedentary day - and they aren't serious steps either.

    I can easily see you getting that much adjustment for 13K steps, that's a lot.
  • paladinmfp
    paladinmfp Posts: 18 Member
    I have this problem too. Yesterday was a very sedentary day due to the flu. Less that 2000 steps. I'm 62 and 5'10" and 260 lbs. According to the last month of Fit bit data, my average calories burned is 2966. My average resting HR is 75. But, I only hit that when I'm asleep. During the day, sitting at a desk or watching TV, my HR is in the fat burning zone of 80 to 85.

    My normal MFP adjustment is 500 to 600 calories. Yesterday, it was over 1100, about double.

    I don't want to mess with height, weight, stride length or anything like that. Short of disconnecting from Fit bit in MFP, is there another solution?
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    edited November 2016
    Disable HR during the day.
    Unless you actually workout.

    That way there is no accidental aspect of it using HR-based calorie burn - if that's what it is doing.

    You can confirm that - especially easy on sick day.

    Go to your daily calorie burn graph per 15 min blocks.

    Look at the burn rate per block during the sleeping night with no steps and low HR.
    Now look during the day when no steps but HR is reading higher.

    If calorie burn rate is indeed higher when the HR goes up into exercise zone - then disable it during the day.
    Now your calorie burn will be step based for sure.
    No steps - then sleeping rate (which is actually underestimated when actually awake), is used for calorie burn.

    ic1n0m7ocibb.png

    This is the 5 min block graph, little too fine, but notice my sleeping hrs match by sitting at work time for calorie burn.
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