A Piece of my Journey and some questions about Sodium Intake with LCHF and IF
LovelessFool
Posts: 109 Member
Hello All. I'm fairly new to LCHF but not to diets in general. A little over 3 months ago I was unfortunately at 517lbs. I pretty much had given up on lots of things. 6'1 and 517lbs I suffered on a daily basis. Everything was hard. I used to drop or gain 100lbs in my 20's like it was nothing but now at 42 I only seemed to be good at gaining weight. A horrible Diet of Carbs and just not caring what I put in my body made me the way I was.
So something clicked in me...I'm not sure exactly what it was but I decided I was going to take my life back. So I started reading and I read lots...and lots...and lots. I seen everything from LCHF to LFHC to everything in between and I knew from doing CICO before and losing it in my 20's etc..that restriction was something I had to do but how I was going to do it was new for me. So ultimately I choose to just count carbs. I didn't go super low carb and my initial goal was under 100 carbs and 1800 calories. For a guy my size that was a pretty big restriction but if I wanted to live and wanted to take my life back this time I wasn't messing around. I needed to find a lifestyle that would work for me the rest of my life. So I did 1800 calories and 100 carbs because it sounded like something I could achieve.
So fast forward a little over 3 months now and I'm happy to say I've lost 90lbs. Well actually 94 as of today but I don't have my weigh-in day yet so MFP only shows 90. I went from doing maybe a 100 steps a day to over 10,000 now. I'm active, getting up from a seated position is possible now without aiding myself with hands or pushing off my knee's or grabbing anything around me to pick me up. I just stand up. Mind you 427lbs I'm still not the dainty little flower I have pictured in my mind (Yet!) but I've come a long way.
So to the questions now is I'm starting to do a 18/6 Intermittent Fast along with having the same nutrition goals as before but in reality I'm more at 1500 calories and 30 carbs now. I know I set a limit before at 100 but on average my carb intake was closer to 50 and under. So really doing 30 carbs and I'm talking net carbs here has been pretty attainable.
So first question is I see everywhere that average sodium intake is 2300mg but I've read ton's of places that you need to increase your sodium when you eat low carb. Not sure if IF has anything to do with needing sodium or not but I think the main factor is keeping your electrolytes in balance. So what is something I should set a goal for sodium? I'm on average doing 3200mg now and I've taken my BP and just had blood work done and my sodium and BP are all in normal ranges. I did however at the first part of the week start the IF and I really forgot to look at sodium in my diary as it's not a column I track so after doing it 3 days this week I took a look and holy crap! I had 5500mg of sodium. That prompted me to check BP again and it was 123/69 but from last weeks loss of 6lbs to this weeks gain of 3.8lbs the sodium does seem to have had an effect. I do 100oz of water as well so I try to make sure I'm hydrated.
So does anyone have an average sodium intake they advise or what do you try to have on intake?
Also I've seen magnesium and potassium mentioned. Do you take supplements for this and if so what do you recommend. I'm not sure I've had any Keto type flu systems and doing IF this week my energy level is through the roof.
I do a 18/6 and eat from 9am to 3pm and then fast 18 until 9am the next day.
I'm sure I may not be doing things by the book but I've kind of just tossed things together as I've gone and took what made sense for me from the many articles I've read and so far my loss has been pretty consistent and I feel so much better and live a better life 90lbs lighter. Just want to make sure as I continue to lose I'm not doing something too crazy or off.
I'm pretty sure 5500mg of sodium a day is not a good thing and I have blood work again Dec so I'll get to see all the blood work again. I am going to try and shoot for the 3200mg range again I think but I wanted to spot check myself here and reach out for anyone willing to give advice.
Thanks for reading my novel. I tend to be a bit wordy I'm told so you'll have to forgive me if I've put anyone to sleep.
Thanks again for anyone who's made it this far and appreciate any insights you can provide.
So something clicked in me...I'm not sure exactly what it was but I decided I was going to take my life back. So I started reading and I read lots...and lots...and lots. I seen everything from LCHF to LFHC to everything in between and I knew from doing CICO before and losing it in my 20's etc..that restriction was something I had to do but how I was going to do it was new for me. So ultimately I choose to just count carbs. I didn't go super low carb and my initial goal was under 100 carbs and 1800 calories. For a guy my size that was a pretty big restriction but if I wanted to live and wanted to take my life back this time I wasn't messing around. I needed to find a lifestyle that would work for me the rest of my life. So I did 1800 calories and 100 carbs because it sounded like something I could achieve.
So fast forward a little over 3 months now and I'm happy to say I've lost 90lbs. Well actually 94 as of today but I don't have my weigh-in day yet so MFP only shows 90. I went from doing maybe a 100 steps a day to over 10,000 now. I'm active, getting up from a seated position is possible now without aiding myself with hands or pushing off my knee's or grabbing anything around me to pick me up. I just stand up. Mind you 427lbs I'm still not the dainty little flower I have pictured in my mind (Yet!) but I've come a long way.
So to the questions now is I'm starting to do a 18/6 Intermittent Fast along with having the same nutrition goals as before but in reality I'm more at 1500 calories and 30 carbs now. I know I set a limit before at 100 but on average my carb intake was closer to 50 and under. So really doing 30 carbs and I'm talking net carbs here has been pretty attainable.
So first question is I see everywhere that average sodium intake is 2300mg but I've read ton's of places that you need to increase your sodium when you eat low carb. Not sure if IF has anything to do with needing sodium or not but I think the main factor is keeping your electrolytes in balance. So what is something I should set a goal for sodium? I'm on average doing 3200mg now and I've taken my BP and just had blood work done and my sodium and BP are all in normal ranges. I did however at the first part of the week start the IF and I really forgot to look at sodium in my diary as it's not a column I track so after doing it 3 days this week I took a look and holy crap! I had 5500mg of sodium. That prompted me to check BP again and it was 123/69 but from last weeks loss of 6lbs to this weeks gain of 3.8lbs the sodium does seem to have had an effect. I do 100oz of water as well so I try to make sure I'm hydrated.
So does anyone have an average sodium intake they advise or what do you try to have on intake?
Also I've seen magnesium and potassium mentioned. Do you take supplements for this and if so what do you recommend. I'm not sure I've had any Keto type flu systems and doing IF this week my energy level is through the roof.
I do a 18/6 and eat from 9am to 3pm and then fast 18 until 9am the next day.
I'm sure I may not be doing things by the book but I've kind of just tossed things together as I've gone and took what made sense for me from the many articles I've read and so far my loss has been pretty consistent and I feel so much better and live a better life 90lbs lighter. Just want to make sure as I continue to lose I'm not doing something too crazy or off.
I'm pretty sure 5500mg of sodium a day is not a good thing and I have blood work again Dec so I'll get to see all the blood work again. I am going to try and shoot for the 3200mg range again I think but I wanted to spot check myself here and reach out for anyone willing to give advice.
Thanks for reading my novel. I tend to be a bit wordy I'm told so you'll have to forgive me if I've put anyone to sleep.
Thanks again for anyone who's made it this far and appreciate any insights you can provide.
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Replies
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You should check out https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/ and look at the FAQ in the sidebar. Their recommendations for Sodium is 5000mg (since your body flushes water on this diet, you end up flushing electrolytes as well), and they also recommend 1000mg of Potassium, and 300mg of Magnesium.4
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Wow! Good for you! That's incredibly inspiring and yes, you need the electrolytes.
Just find some good vitamins, as this guy above said, also Zinc, D3, Calcium, etc. I take a Magnesium, Calcium and Zinc vitamin and a Multi Source Potassium also.
Good Stuff and Congrats!!2 -
Good on you man!
Like the others above said if you are following the lower carb range of 50 and below you need that extra sodium! I keep a container in my bag and one at work which is a 50/50 mix of salt and nusalt. This gets put in almost all my drinks. I don't add it to anything carbonated don't know why. I also sprinkle it on my meals. I'm one of those people who don't take supplements for sodium.
You seem to have dove in head first and doing all the research, you've got this!2 -
Congrats on everything!
5500 isn't bad at all. Around here we generally say to START between 3000-5000mg, but it's not uncommon to need as much as 7000mg a day. You lose lots of sodium with lost ketones in urine sweating.
I doubt the sodium was responsible for the scale weight gain.2 -
Yeah the gain was stupid. Last week I did a 7 day meal plan it was 40 carbs but didn't involve IF at all and lost 6lbs. I changed the diet up so I could skip dinner and do the 18/6 IF. When I did that I gained 1.2lbs then I gained 1.6lbs the next day and I'm eating the exact same food every day so the gain was crazy because I know there was no way I ate almost 10,000 calories to gain it. I did go from 3200 to 5500 sodium though and I didn't increase my water. I'm at 100oz a day so last night I added 30% more water and I figured today I'd see another gain due to the 2+ more pounds of water in my system but I lost 1.6lbs this morning.
I've toyed around with diet a bit. I'm a nerd so I know in general CICO works to an extent but I'm trying to now figure out how to make a permanent lifestyle change and so far LCHF seems the way to go for me.
I wasn't really freaking out or anything with the gain because honestly I knew the math didn't add up but still I'm the curious type so I wanted to try and figure things out. I'm doing 7 days of the IF this week so I guess I attribute the gains for the first few days to just a dietary change. Going from 3 meals to 2 meals you think you would lose but since those 2 meals are much more calorie dense now maybe my body just needs time to adjust.
I had a few people flip out over the 5500mg of sodium but they don't do LCHF so not their faults. Just listening to what they've been told before. Also I would think such a spike in sodium would affect BP if it was really sticking around or I've read how high sodium can make you feel / react etc...and I have none of those symptoms so just kind of spot checking myself I guess.
I will be really interested in my loss this week after 7 days of getting used to the change in diet with the addition of IF to the mix. I know I already have more energy and have slept better doing it so far.
Thanks for all the input everyone appreciate all the opinions and it's nice to make new friends.0 -
Congratulations to you, sir! High five!!!1
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You seem to have a good handle on this and are making amazing progress. WTG!!!1
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You are amazing!
Don't worry too much about a few pounds gain if you know you are not eating too much, it's just water weight, probably from the additional sodium. Also, be aware that IF may cause additional water gain, particularly if you are doing workouts or activity while fasted. Take measurements in addition to scale tracking, and you will be able to see when you are losing fat even when the scale is not cooperating.1 -
Ermmm...
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10358179/keto-flu-dizzy-weak-tired-headaches-cramping-muscles-electrolyte-imbalance-may-be-your-problem#latest
I, and others, have found that once you are fat-adapted, sometimes your sodium needs will dip a tad. I used to need 5,000. 2 years out, I'm fine with just over 3,000. Some people need even higher than 5,000 in the beginning. Like Lori (@SuperCarLori) or they feel like roadkill. Most don't have to worry as much about potassium after awhile. Keeping sodium up causes the body to preserve your potassium level and other electrolytes. So after a time, I just let my food supply the majority of my potassium. I reduced my ketoade to once a day instead of twice, and I'm doing good. Exact electrolyte needs, like everything else, varies by individual. YMMV applies, but it's general found that 5,000mg/daily is a good starting point for beginners.
If you are doing low-carb (producing ketones at all, even small amounts like me) and have a pulse, your sodium needs will stay higher than the average non-ketone producer. Ketone production excretes sodium. Low sodium prompts leeching of the other electrolytes.
Before keto, my BP constantly flirted with borderline high. Now it's rarely higher than 105/65.
Remember, gaining a pound or 2 over a day is water weight and a lie. It's often gone as mysteriously as it arrived. Try to keep in mind that daily fluctuations are a thing and keep your eye on the trend instead.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10067269/your-scale-is-a-lying-liarpants?new=1
Over 2 years ago, I was a 5'10", 260lb female. Now I'm just under 160 and maintaining.
Slow and steady may not win the race, but it will FINISH that race without a doubt. It's more of a marathon. This is about consistency over time. Biology will be a twit and pause and stall and dither around. But it can't hold out forever.
Consistency + Persistence + Time= Success
HTH in any way.
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Excellent progress and welcome!
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Wonderful progress! The recommendations above I echo.1
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First off congrats on the loss! That's a GREAT start. It sounds like ou're getting things under control and working this way of eating so it suits you and your needs which is good.
As far as sodium that's a decent amount. Some people need a bit more. If you experience any "keto flu" symptoms maybe try a bit more.2 -
@GlitterRayne So far I've felt great. I've never had a bout with any flu like stuff and now I started doing the 18/6 fast my energy levels are through the freaking roof! I had no idea skipping dinner would make me feel so much better.
So close to hitting my 100lbs loss will be nice to hit that then put it in the rear view and start targeting that 200lb number!2 -
Just dropping in to to say AWESOME on the weight loss.
Keep paying attention to how you're feeling and it's OK to question things. Just don't fall into the paralysis of (over) analysis. Weight loss takes time whether it's 20 pounds or 100+ pounds and fluctuations on the scale are the norm.2 -
Thanks a bunch to everyone. It's been a crazy journey and thankfully I'm not all crazy over a number on the scale. I didn't like it saying 3.8lbs gain but the energy level not only for me going lower carb but to go with the IF stuff this week has really felt great. My victories these past months haven't been associated with a number. Numbers are nice but being able to do so much more in life has made a huge impact for me.
I own a home that has an upstairs and the poor "game room / entertainment area" doesn't get much love because to be honest it involved me having to pull myself along the rail and waddle up the stairs one at a time only to take 5 minutes to get to the top and then I'd be out of breath for 10 minutes and would need to sit down. Then that feeling of when I come down what would happen if I fell and how bad it would be so taking things equally slow. Now this might not mean anything to anyone really but yesterday I actually kind of ran up the stairs, no rail, and at the top not one huff or puff and I proceeded to grab what I needed and I ran back down stairs no rail again and at the bottom of the stairs I caught myself thinking...omg...did I really just do that and I paused to pay attention to breaking or how I was feeling and I felt like a normal person...doing a normal thing. Silly victory for most probably but for me those are the things that the scale will never show me.
I've not ever really been the social butterfly even when I was more thin but talking to the many friends I've made here at MFP has been great and I really do appreciate all the time and effort of others who have supported me so far. All of it means a lot and I'm glad to also give back in anyway I can.
Also thank you to the people who requested me as a friend. Glad to have you on my journey with me and letting me be a part of yours as well.
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LovelessFool wrote: »yesterday I actually kind of ran up the stairs, no rail, and at the top not one huff or puff and I proceeded to grab what I needed and I ran back down stairs no rail again and at the bottom of the stairs I caught myself thinking...omg...did I really just do that and I paused to pay attention to breaking or how I was feeling and I felt like a normal person...doing a normal thing.
No, that's incredible!! Those kinds of things will be what keep you going more than numbers on the scale. Way to go!!!!
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@Cadori Thanks! I have certainly surprised myself lately.
Also lmao...I feel like such a math Idiot right now too...I looked back over things and well seems 1.2 + 1.6 doesn't equal 3.8...lol I guess in some crazy mixed up weight gain world it might but in the reality we live in now that's a 2.8lb gain not a 3.8lb one.
Also after breakfast I was like you know what the heck lets step back on the scale. I normally weigh in the mornings when I first get up and don't try to "beat" the scale by cutting my hair, clipping my fingernails, or other um..bathroom habits. I just want to be like this is the number and it is what it is..everything averages out over time anyway. So with that said...
Of the 2.8lb gain today the scale shows this morning a 2.4lb loss so really it's .4lb gain and honestly I doubt it's even that as perhaps I just needed more water? or my body adjusted more to the fasting or hey who knows aliens may have come down and tinkered with my scale..but either way I'm not too concerned. I think this week will finish up great and with my energy level and the better sleep I think I may stick with the Intermittent Fasting thing a little while longer.3 -
Congrats on your loss!! 10,000 steps a day is very impressive. I second the advice to go to /r/keto on Reddit, that's a big helpful community, just ignore the trolls if they pop up.
I take a magnesium supplement that I mix in with water and a little sugar free liquid enhancer (like mio, crystal light etc). It's called Calm Plus Calcium. I take 1/2 tsp in the AM and 1/2 a tsp at night. Any more and I'd be in the bathroom all night, lol.
I don't know how much sodium I get though, I do salt everything so I hope it's enough.1 -
@sarahb29 Thanks! I remember when I thought exercise was getting up to get the door because the pizza was here or walking to the fridge for a soda. Now those 10,000 steps feel pretty good. I do 2 miles on the treadmill daily now where before stepping on the treadmill felt like work lol. I'm blessed to have friends here who care and appreciate everyone for all their great info. Every little bit helps.2
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LovelessFool wrote: »@sarahb29 Thanks! I remember when I thought exercise was getting up to get the door because the pizza was here or walking to the fridge for a soda. Now those 10,000 steps feel pretty good. I do 2 miles on the treadmill daily now where before stepping on the treadmill felt like work lol. I'm blessed to have friends here who care and appreciate everyone for all their great info. Every little bit helps.
I would have to double how much I walk to keep up with you and I'm a 140 pound woman! You're doing awesome!
Here's my daily average steps over the last year! I just couldn't find a way to be consistent with exercise. Until recently, I discovered I do enjoy lifting weights, but that's not giving me so many steps. Lol
For the past month, since I have been lifting I am averaging a whopping 7500! Go me! Lol2 -
On a typical day I get in 4500 - 6000 steps max! Woohooo.... haha. I haven't even touched 10,000 steps the entire time I've been on this WOE... over a year or so. I think my all time highest record is around 8,000. OP is a boss.1
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@LovelessFool : Congrats on your journey to date. Awsome. I am impressed with your 2 miles a day treadmill workout! Way to go!0
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Yeah I think my stride says that's about 4 miles. I know they say average is 5 miles but my stride is wider so when it's calculated it's very close to 4. So 2 miles on the treadmill and then I guess I've done more running around the house and outside now lately than I thought. I never really calculated out the distance so when I did it wow that's further than I thought.
I guess I did some crazy distance buying my truck a few weeks ago it said I had just over 14000. Did a ton of walking and man...car lots...please shoot me now...but settled on a new Dodge EcoDisel Ram1500 and holy cow. I took a trip and got 30mpg in a Pick-up...freakin' love it.
So I'm sticking to the plan this week and really now I'm gonna do the fasting stuff for 2 weeks I think.1 -
@supergal3 I started slow about 3 months ago and at first I could only do 5 minutes a day and about 1/10th of a mile, but I didn't quit and each week I got stronger and walked farther and faster. I average around 2 to 2.5 mph so it's not a super fast walk but I stick with it. The other day I tried 4 mph and only got a mile before I had to give it a rest. Still too big of a guy to do that fast but I am constantly pushing my limits because if I don't push myself then no one can.
You girls are still do amazing work too. Those steps add up and being so consistent in what you do makes a difference. I can tell you first hand how hard they can be lol. So great job, the count doesn't matter but just getting out there and being active does so I commend you on a great job getting those bodies in motion.2 -
Popping in to say HI and Welcome! You've got a good handle on this!1
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I wonder whether optimal electrolyte intake in the early phase of a ketogenic diet varies by body weight for any or all of them. ??
Fortunately, sodium and potassium tests are routine and cheap (I don't know if there are reliable magnesium tests), so there's always self-experimentation.
Perhaps keto experts Eric Westman or Sarah Hallberg, who run weight-loss clinics at their university med centers, have addressed the question in their many publications and YouTube lectures.... (if I find anything relevant, I'll let you know.)2 -
@ralflott Thanks for the info. I had my sodium checked after my LCHF and all my blood work was amazing. My doc couldn't pick her jaw up off the floor from the prior 3 months results. It's was pretty awesome leaving her speechless. She just stared at the screen then back at me then back and the screen then told me to stand up and she hugged me...lol. Was a pretty awesome feeling.9
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Everyone already gave you good info...so I won't repeat.
I just wanted to say great job -- it takes a lot of courage to completely change your life 180 and you are doing it. You've got this!1 -
LovelessFool wrote: »@ralflott Thanks for the info. I had my sodium checked after my LCHF and all my blood work was amazing. My doc couldn't pick her jaw up off the floor from the prior 3 months results. It's was pretty awesome leaving her speechless. She just stared at the screen then back at me then back and the screen then told me to stand up and she hugged me...lol. Was a pretty awesome feeling.
That gave me goosebumps! Great job!!1 -
Wow, you've had phenomenal results! The overall health improvements are more important than the number on the scale - good for you on both accounts!
I wish you all the best on your continued journey, and will be (virtually) walking beside you. 1
