ever had trouble believing a "certified" race distance?

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  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
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    No, I have not certified a course before, but I have mad respects for all that do. Just like I have lots of respect for anyone that volunteered their services at any capacity whether it's handing out water to being a race director to being president to a local running club.

    .1 mile off is actually in some cases planned purposely (or very close to that) by race coordinators. It's to guarantee that a race is not run too short. Most certified courses are planned to be slightly longer for that reason.
  • TomZot
    TomZot Posts: 165 Member
    edited November 2016
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    Not only is there the tangents issue, but a certified course also has a 0.1% distance factor added in along the way.
  • lizmcvey
    lizmcvey Posts: 64 Member
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    The other thing I try to remember that even if the course is certified, the mile markers generally are not. So yes the entire course should be pretty close but the mile markers are measured out and set up likely with far less precise technology. I consider the mile markers to be just general information.
  • dewd2
    dewd2 Posts: 2,449 Member
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    The mile markers are painted on the surface with circles and arrows. These are supposed to be very accurate (within the .1% fluff added to the course).

    FWIW, My Garmin showed 26.27 miles yesterday for the Harrisburg Marathon. The mile markers were almost spot on with my watch until about mile 15 or 16 when my watch started pulling ahead by more than a few yards. My 630 is set to use both GPS and GLOWNASS satellites and it is set to record measurements every second (neither of these are default settings).
  • daj150
    daj150 Posts: 815 Member
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    As a point of reference, large races use professional GPS race mapping tools. However, these tools calculate "shortest possible distance". This means that if you somehow take every turn, bend and straight-away on the same exact plot the GPS tool had calculated, your GPS device will measure the exact same distance. I had tried this out with a few Rock 'n Roll races. Keep in mind though, if you are the type of person that likes avoiding others and dodging and getting around clusters, you may find your distance on your device is longer than the race. Likewise, you may find your final distance on your GPS device is less than the actual race, which happened to me at Pittsburgh Half Marathon a few years ago (I was super impatient and took lots of sidewalks to bypass clusters). And of course I hurt my ankle doing this...lesson learned.

    You will find many personal tools like Garmin and Map My Fitness are pretty close to accurate to the professional tools. In addition, you will find that if you dual GPS device on a run that you mapped out on one device, the other device will usually be almost spot on with the mapped device. Sorry for the lengthy response.

    Short story long, the certified race distances are almost always correct.
  • rrcoffey
    rrcoffey Posts: 72 Member
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    The race I run Thanksgiving morning has a 5K and 10K option...the 10K is just twice around. I've run the 5K before and found my GPS app to be pretty close. But, for the 10K, on the 2nd loop, the course sends you though a neighborhood, presumably to get that extra .1 mile. It adds, however, an extra ~.25 mile...so my 10K ending up being 6.48 miles. Last year, I thought it was just a fluke, my GPS was off, maybe I didn't start/stop accurately, etc... but to get the same distance on the same course the following year, I know it's not me - LOL! It doesn't bother me enough, though, to complain or not run this race again.
  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
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    Thanksgiving 5k this year was my 3rd race that regisgtered short on my Garmin. Had a 5k 0.04 short, a HM 0.3 short, and this last one 0.05 short. However, 2 other runners who also track on Strava, showed the 5k this year as right on 5k. I may have run a tiny bit less because we were supposed to stay left side of the road, and I did cut some tangents tighter than that.
  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
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    Thanksgiving 10K came in at 6.24 miles on my Garmin. On the one hand, most of the race is on straight roads with only 4 turns before the 6 mile mark. Then there's a curvy parking lot stretch to finish. On the other hand, I made no attempt to run good tangents the first 6 miles, and had to run wide of early start walkers quite a bit; though I ran decent tangents in the parking lot at the end. The Garmin distance seems reasonable for a certified 10K distance and the actual race I ran.
  • DavidMartinez2
    DavidMartinez2 Posts: 840 Member
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    I ran a marathon a few years ago with a pacer who is also a certifying official. As someone earlier said, because of the way they have to measure tangents and stay close to the curb it is virtually impossible for you as the runner to follow the path they measured. A properly marked and measured marathon should show ~26.4 on your Garmin. If you get 26.2 the course was short.
  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
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    I ran a marathon a few years ago with a pacer who is also a certifying official. As someone earlier said, because of the way they have to measure tangents and stay close to the curb it is virtually impossible for you as the runner to follow the path they measured. A properly marked and measured marathon should show ~26.4 on your Garmin. If you get 26.2 the course was short.

    That totally goes along with the distances I've seen recorded for the Marathon I'm signed. Cool info.
  • daj150
    daj150 Posts: 815 Member
    edited December 2016
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    Just a note, friend recently completed a marathon with his Polar watch showing 25.9. I shot him an email so I could relay his story...turns out he was cutting onto sidewalks A TON to get around groups because he got to his race late and was in the last corral. The race was through a city with tons of turns. So there are some cases where a large difference is legit. But typically if your GPS is comes in more than .2 miles under, as @DavidMartinez2 said, the course was short.
  • The_Enginerd
    The_Enginerd Posts: 3,982 Member
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    I ran a marathon a few years ago with a pacer who is also a certifying official. As someone earlier said, because of the way they have to measure tangents and stay close to the curb it is virtually impossible for you as the runner to follow the path they measured. A properly marked and measured marathon should show ~26.4 on your Garmin. If you get 26.2 the course was short.
    On my last marathon, I got 26.15. It was a certified course (Boston Qualifier), and I ran all of the tangents. I don't know if the GPS shorted some of the distance where there were out and back sections with turnarounds. I did have it set to record every second, so I wouldn't expect that.
  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
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    I ran a marathon a few years ago with a pacer who is also a certifying official. As someone earlier said, because of the way they have to measure tangents and stay close to the curb it is virtually impossible for you as the runner to follow the path they measured. A properly marked and measured marathon should show ~26.4 on your Garmin. If you get 26.2 the course was short.

    There is also the issue of GPS error. If you run a straight line, the GPS may spot you at points to the right and left of where you are. Connecting the dots produces a longer distance than you ran. Less commonly, GPS spotting may have you cutting corners that you didn't really cut to produce less distance.

    I've been thinking about this since Garmin showed 3.12 miles for my Reindeer Run 5K last Saturday. I typically see about 3.14 miles for a certified 5K when I'm running reasonably good tangents; but Saturday there was snow everywhere. Running good tangents was out of the question. I ran for the least bad footing. So what happened? *shrug* GPS isn't 100% accurate.
  • taeliesyn
    taeliesyn Posts: 1,116 Member
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    Thanksgiving 5k this year was my 3rd race that regisgtered short on my Garmin. Had a 5k 0.04 short, a HM 0.3 short, and this last one 0.05 short. However, 2 other runners who also track on Strava, showed the 5k this year as right on 5k. I may have run a tiny bit less because we were supposed to stay left side of the road, and I did cut some tangents tighter than that.

    It also depends on your garmin, I've found my Fenix 2 consistently measures short compared to friends with other garmins. It used to read long, until a few firmware updates ago.
  • 7lenny7
    7lenny7 Posts: 3,493 Member
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    My marathon was on a course with minimal turns (maybe a half dozen) and only 360 runners so bunching up was not a problem after the first few turns. I still logged 26.33 miles on my Garmin.