Keto Refeeds - Clean or Dirty?
Replies
-
I've never heard of this, but I'm not sure if this would be helpful at all if you are using Keto as a way to control blood sugar, like I am. I am also wondering if this would knock a person out of ketosis. Does anyone have any info or experience regarding these situations?
Yea it'll knock you out of ketosis, thats the purpose. Its like a reboot. Weight lifters use it to get shredded and dieters use them to help break stalls. I agree with you, refeeds probably arent a good idea for diabetic ketoers because it is a sugar swing
Thanks! I think I should probably ignore these for myself then, but I wish everyone else good luck with this.0 -
Is it bad i'm hoping for a stall so I can have blueberry pancakes from ihop?! HAHA Not really, but what I wouldn't give for pancakes right now!
My problem is, last time I had a "cheat day" it turned into a week, and 3 months later I weigh the exact same as I did 3 months ago. I guess that's a good thing that I didn gain anything back. Actually, that's not true, I did gain 3 pounds, but that was after a weekend of camping. I had been sitting at 50 for 3 months.
I'm currently back on track, day 7, and i've been SO good! I have been telling myself that I will have those pancakes in August, but July is dedicated to staying strong, and staying on track!0 -
I would be careful with refeeds for the following reasons:
1. Carb cravings
I don't know how the cravings were for everyone but I know some people suffer with terribly. After a few eeks they go but what happens if you eat a ton of carbs again? Is it not a bit like an alcoholic going on an alcohol reefed?
2. Ketosis
You are either in ketosis or you're not. If going into ketosis has helped you lose weight, stabilised your energy and eliminated your carb cravings why mess with it?
3. Weight gain
After a carb refeed you will probably regain a couple of pounds of water weight. While this isn't a lot, and will probably go again within a few days, be aware of the effect mentally on you after seeing the scale increase.
Having said all that, if you feel a carb refeed will help you reach your goals then go for it.2 -
"Re-Feeding
One should also incorporate re-feeds into their diet plan. Re-feeds help boost a hormone called leptin, which is the mother of all fat burning hormones. As one diets, leptin levels drop in an attempt by the body to spare body fat. Periodic, proper re-feeding can raise leptin levels and help one continue to burn fat an optimum rate. A person who is lean will need to re-feed more frequently than someone who has a higher body fat percentage. For those who are below 10%, it is probably a wise idea to incorporate re-feeds two times per week.
For those people who are in the 10-15% range, re-feeding every 6-12 days will probably be adequate, for those who are above 15%, re-feeding will probably not need to be done more than once every week to two weeks. Obviously as one loses body fat they will need to re-feed more often."
~ Source: http://www.simplyshredded.com/layne-norton-the-most-effective-cutting-diet.html0 -
I was doing some research on refeeds and turns out people with excess body fat have lots of leptin, our problem isn't low leptin it's leptin sensitivity. A refeed would be the last thing anyone with extra weight needs. Jisatsu, based on your profile pic you probably aren't 36%bf like I am
So a leptin surge would not do me (and other overweight individuals) any good, other than a mental break if you need it 
0 -
Now, now kids. All of us low-carbers know that there isn't one solution that fits all. A refeed is a simply a strategy that is a personal choice. Lyle McDonald talks about its psychological benefits (by giving yourself a treat, you may avoid a sense of deprivation that could lead to a binge). There is certainly the leptin aspect to consider as well. If things are working for someone without it, then why add it in? Likewise, for a plateau it may be just the thing from a physical and psychological standpoint.
For me personally, I was hard-core keto for my first 4 months. Then I hit a plateau. About the same time I had vacation for a week. I enjoyed my vacation, and didn't worry much about food. When I got back, I had an awesome burst of weight loss, for probably the next 2 months. Was the weight loss helped by that week off? I don't know. But I do know that for me, it did not hurt. My body fat at the time was around 44-45%. So highervibes - I have to disagree with you that this is this last thing that someone who is overweight needs. I'm not saying it's what people need either - again, we are all different.
For me in other diets, a cheat has led to a sense of failure - that feeling that I am unable to stick with it. I think it's that feeling that leads people to give up and binge and completely fall off. If you instead look at those occasions as no big deal, and not see it as a cheat or a weakness, you are ahead of the game. Enjoy it and then move on and get focused again. it was your leptin replenishment, and now you need to get back to ketosis and fat loss.
I have not had any issues returning to keto when I've had these refeeds / free days / cheats. if anything, I've felt re-committed. But we are all different. Each of us needs to assess themselves and make their own call.0 -
I would be careful with refeeds for the following reasons:
1. Carb cravings
I don't know how the cravings were for everyone but I know some people suffer with terribly. After a few eeks they go but what happens if you eat a ton of carbs again? Is it not a bit like an alcoholic going on an alcohol reefed?
2. Ketosis
You are either in ketosis or you're not. If going into ketosis has helped you lose weight, stabilised your energy and eliminated your carb cravings why mess with it?
3. Weight gain
After a carb refeed you will probably regain a couple of pounds of water weight. While this isn't a lot, and will probably go again within a few days, be aware of the effect mentally on you after seeing the scale increase.
Having said all that, if you feel a carb refeed will help you reach your goals then go for it.
I did a carb up meal last night, was planned for tonight but switched it, was planning on chinese food but only good place in town was closed yesterday :grumble: So went with Swiss Chalet and did ribs, taters with gravy and a white roll with butter and followed it with Nacho's and cheese from 711.
Ended up at 2400 calories without counting exercise ones which was 500 and just over 100 carbs. Scale was up 4 pounds this morning which might have been less if I had got in more than one bottle of water yesterday.
I've found I can't do carb up days because I end up eating way too much but without carbing up odds are I'd have quit by now.
Doing another carb up night on the 27th but only because it's girls night :drinker:
From past carb ups I should be back in keto's by Friday and once today passes so will the carb cravings.0 -
Was the weight loss helped by that week off? I don't know. But I do know that for me, it did not hurt. My body fat at the time was around 44-45%. So highervibes - I have to disagree with you that this is this last thing that someone who is overweight needs. I'm not saying it's what people need either - again, we are all different.
Yeah, for sure! I would try this for a stall but I' definitely going to hold off on the free-for-all while I'm still losing a good 1-1-.5/week. It's nice to know the solution could be tasty! lol0 -
I believe as long as it's planned ahead of time and you know how much your gona eat you should be find. A refeed doesnt have to be a binge. It can just be 150~200 Carbs for example. But like kira said everyone is different. You have to find what will work best for you.
I'll apologize if it seems like im trying to promote a feast...0 -
I believe as long as it's planned ahead of time and you know how much your gona eat you should be find. A refeed doesnt have to be a binge. It can just be 150~200 Carbs for example. But like kira said everyone is different. You have to find what will work best for you.
I'll apologize if it seems like im trying to promote a feast...
I did't get that impression from you at all... *I* think I was trying to justify one :P0 -
I would be careful with refeeds for the following reasons:
1. Carb cravings
I don't know how the cravings were for everyone but I know some people suffer with terribly. After a few eeks they go but what happens if you eat a ton of carbs again? Is it not a bit like an alcoholic going on an alcohol reefed?
2. Ketosis
You are either in ketosis or you're not. If going into ketosis has helped you lose weight, stabilised your energy and eliminated your carb cravings why mess with it?
3. Weight gain
After a carb refeed you will probably regain a couple of pounds of water weight. While this isn't a lot, and will probably go again within a few days, be aware of the effect mentally on you after seeing the scale increase.
Having said all that, if you feel a carb refeed will help you reach your goals then go for it.
If you lift heavy at all, you will notice week 2 on keto with no refeed is horrible. Lifts s)ck and your dieing in the middle of your sets... no real strength.
CKD is a god send. Helps me lose consistently and also lift heavy to avoid losing muscle mass.
Waking up on Sunday and eating straight no carb makes it easy to transition FYI. Once you are fat adapted, you dont get the carb cravings after waking up.
In my opinion, people should be track progress by their measurements then scale weight. Scale weight is good for reference, but I am more interested in that 6 pack
. So water weight is irrelevant.
Most people don't do a CKD right, which means beforehand you have to physically circuit your exercises (full body) right before carbing up until you basically fail. Its not a "cheat" day for low carb people, its to refill your muscle glycogen.
If you have excess muscle glycogen when you are CKDing then basically your just gonna have excess glycogen turn right back into fat. Which defeats the whole purpose.0 -
I would be careful with refeeds for the following reasons:
1. Carb cravings
I don't know how the cravings were for everyone but I know some people suffer with terribly. After a few eeks they go but what happens if you eat a ton of carbs again? Is it not a bit like an alcoholic going on an alcohol reefed?
2. Ketosis
You are either in ketosis or you're not. If going into ketosis has helped you lose weight, stabilised your energy and eliminated your carb cravings why mess with it?
3. Weight gain
After a carb refeed you will probably regain a couple of pounds of water weight. While this isn't a lot, and will probably go again within a few days, be aware of the effect mentally on you after seeing the scale increase.
Having said all that, if you feel a carb refeed will help you reach your goals then go for it.
If you lift heavy at all, you will notice week 2 on keto with no refeed is horrible. Lifts s)ck and your dieing in the middle of your sets... no real strength.
CKD is a god send. Helps me lose consistently and also lift heavy to avoid losing muscle mass.
Waking up on Sunday and eating straight no carb makes it easy to transition FYI. Once you are fat adapted, you dont get the carb cravings after waking up.
In my opinion, people should be track progress by their measurements then scale weight. Scale weight is good for reference, but I am more interested in that 6 pack. So water weight is irrelevant.
Most people don't do a CKD right, which means beforehand you have to physically circuit your exercises (full body) right before carbing up until you basically fail. Its not a "cheat" day for low carb people, its to refill your muscle glycogen.
If you have excess muscle glycogen when you are CKDing then basically your just gonna have excess glycogen turn right back into fat. Which defeats the whole purpose.
I have tried re-feeds after giving Kiefer's Carb Nite Soloution a shot. I found I would just eat far too much. I also didn't like the mental aspect of having one day when I was allowed to eat "Forbidden Foods." I'm not saying that re-feeding is something to be avoided, just that some people may cause themselves more grief than it's worth.
As for feeling rough while training after two weeks, that seems about right to me. According to Jeff Volek and Stephen Phinney in their book The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance it can take anywhere from three to six weeks for your body to fully adapt to the ketogenic diet.0 -
I've been doing Keto for 60 days now. I workout 5 days a week. Going to have a pizza tonight. Is that going to be ok?0
-
In the past I've seen positive results with clean or dirty refeeds IF you're only talking carbs. As long as I flipped the fat/carb ration for that meal/day things worked well. If I went crazy on fat and carbs then the bump took longer to get rid of.
I'm one week back on keto and have no plans for refeed. Maybe I'll consider a refeed meal only once I hit the 4-6 week mark. I do lift 6 days/week, but am in the high bf% category.0 -
No refeed for me. I do ultra endurance, so I want to stay fat adapted, worked hard at getting there and am not putting that in jeopardy.
I don't believe in the reboot qualities if it can also put you on the path of a major carb creep. I am highly insulin resistant, so it would have the potential of putting me in a worse place.3 -
JisatsuHoshi wrote: »if in induction phase then you shouldnt refeed until after the 3rd week. Refeeds will help keep metabolism high since keto will slow it.
Afterwards:
- if bf%% is high then refeed bi-weekly with a "cheat meal"
- if bf%% is low then depending on how active one is you can have weekly or bi-weekly "cheat meal" or "cheat day"
I've read Fats should be kept low a on refeed days, But I dont feel anything eating clean...
I should have never popped into this thread. I have been curious about the science behind refeeds. I feel there is a lot of bro-science and not actual solid data. I haven't incorporated much exercise at this point. In fact when I was doing CICO I was exercising but after I started keto, I slowly stopped exercising because I was losing weight without it. I just got lazy. I fear a refeed for me once I'm fat-adapted and working out regularly would spiral me out of control, hinder my progress or just enable me to be lazy. I'm interested in following the thread and getting more advice. Mine would definitely be dirty!0 -
JisatsuHoshi wrote: »if in induction phase then you shouldnt refeed until after the 3rd week. Refeeds will help keep metabolism high since keto will slow it.
Afterwards:
- if bf%% is high then refeed bi-weekly with a "cheat meal"
- if bf%% is low then depending on how active one is you can have weekly or bi-weekly "cheat meal" or "cheat day"
I've read Fats should be kept low a on refeed days, But I dont feel anything eating clean...
I should have never popped into this thread. I have been curious about the science behind refeeds. I feel there is a lot of bro-science and not actual solid data. I haven't incorporated much exercise at this point. In fact when I was doing CICO I was exercising but after I started keto, I slowly stopped exercising because I was losing weight without it. I just got lazy. I fear a refeed for me once I'm fat-adapted and working out regularly would spiral me out of control, hinder my progress or just enable me to be lazy. I'm interested in following the thread and getting more advice. Mine would definitely be dirty!
@bowlerae - My kneejerk reaction would be that if you know it would be a dirty refeed for you automatically because you miss or crave those foods that you should probably never do a refeed - or at least never a dirty one. The things we compulsively crave, desire, or want the most are rarely good for us. I know that for me, that if I wanted something that intensely, having it would be all kinds of bad news for me...likely not for you, but definitely for me. Food for thought. But, I also dont' always spring back as quickly as I would like anymore, either.1 -
I should have never popped into this thread. I have been curious about the science behind refeeds. I feel there is a lot of bro-science and not actual solid data. I haven't incorporated much exercise at this point. In fact when I was doing CICO I was exercising but after I started keto, I slowly stopped exercising because I was losing weight without it. I just got lazy. I fear a refeed for me once I'm fat-adapted and working out regularly would spiral me out of control, hinder my progress or just enable me to be lazy. I'm interested in following the thread and getting more advice. Mine would definitely be dirty!
A critical point when talking refeeds is strenuous resistance training. If you're a strength athlete and focusing more on performance (i.e gainz) and the scale isn't as high priority then refeeds may play a more vital role. If you're not hitting the gym hard there is not a ton of need for replenishing muscle glycogen.
0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »JisatsuHoshi wrote: »if in induction phase then you shouldnt refeed until after the 3rd week. Refeeds will help keep metabolism high since keto will slow it.
Afterwards:
- if bf%% is high then refeed bi-weekly with a "cheat meal"
- if bf%% is low then depending on how active one is you can have weekly or bi-weekly "cheat meal" or "cheat day"
I've read Fats should be kept low a on refeed days, But I dont feel anything eating clean...
I should have never popped into this thread. I have been curious about the science behind refeeds. I feel there is a lot of bro-science and not actual solid data. I haven't incorporated much exercise at this point. In fact when I was doing CICO I was exercising but after I started keto, I slowly stopped exercising because I was losing weight without it. I just got lazy. I fear a refeed for me once I'm fat-adapted and working out regularly would spiral me out of control, hinder my progress or just enable me to be lazy. I'm interested in following the thread and getting more advice. Mine would definitely be dirty!
@bowlerae - My kneejerk reaction would be that if you know it would be a dirty refeed for you automatically because you miss or crave those foods that you should probably never do a refeed - or at least never a dirty one. The things we compulsively crave, desire, or want the most are rarely good for us. I know that for me, that if I wanted something that intensely, having it would be all kinds of bad news for me...likely not for you, but definitely for me. Food for thought. But, I also dont' always spring back as quickly as I would like anymore, either.
that's where I am, exactly that spot, and that's why I don't do refeeds. Also, phrasing it as "refeed" suggests I'm not feeding myself now. But I am and in a much better way than I did when I was struggling with the carb load.1 -
Carb refeeds imo are definitely necessary when you are on Keto. The human body interprets ketosys as a state of starvation even when calories are relatively high and it will respond by doing all the nasty things it does when you are really starving yourself like lowering your leptin in an effort to make you hungrier as well as your Tyroid hormones in effort to conserve energy. Those facts are undisputed.
Unless you are doing something like a CKD or UD2 in which case the refeed is very complex and involved, a simple metabolic reset can be accomplished with a single evening meal with high carbs. The meal should not be a feast and should have enough carbs to knock you out of ketosys for a day or two at most.
The biggest mistake I have seen people make with refeeds is to see them as a chance to indulge. That should not be the point of a refeed. I have been on Keto for the past 2 years and I do periodic carb refeeds to keep my metabolism stoked. The strategy I use when refeeding is very simple. I never consume foods that I find more appealing than the foods I consume while on Keto. For example, I have done a refeed with a bag of Trader Joe's breaded chicken cutlets. They taste good but they are by no means teastier than the chicken wings I eat while on Keto. I have done another refeed with 6 McDonalds egg white delights. Same thing, pretty good, but no better then my almond meal biscuits with breakfast sausages. This strategy works because it prevents binging since none of the foods I consume are that rewarding and I am able to go right back to my Keto diet the very next day without mental issues.3 -
I'm relatively active i.e. 5-6 days/ week I would either bike ride or gym it...I have been doing keto diet for nearly 2 years with a few hiccups. Longest I have went w/o any carbs is 16 weeks. I have been testing and trying many different types of variations of Keto like the CKD or TKD which in my opinion are awful; your body is constantly in between metabolic states. But, doing SKD too long is not recommended. I would say, once Keto adapted, to do a carb refeed every 3-6 weeks (depending on the person). Try and go as long as possible; eventually you'll uncover your sweet spot. For me, it's 3-4 weeks...longer than 4 weeks, I get moody, my weight increases, I get these awful hunger cravings, metabolism slows (potentially causing an over active thyroid)...restricting carbs too long can put a stress on the body; all that clear thinking might go in reverse. At any rate, it's best to experiment.This is truly the best diet/ lifestyle in the entire world so take the time and figure out what works best BUT, never, ever dare to cross back into that world of grains/ carbs/ glucose. It's unnatural and causes nothing but inflammation in the body. We, as a species went a quarter of million years w/o them.0
This discussion has been closed.