Keto Refeeds - Clean or Dirty?
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I would be careful with refeeds for the following reasons:
1. Carb cravings
I don't know how the cravings were for everyone but I know some people suffer with terribly. After a few eeks they go but what happens if you eat a ton of carbs again? Is it not a bit like an alcoholic going on an alcohol reefed?
2. Ketosis
You are either in ketosis or you're not. If going into ketosis has helped you lose weight, stabilised your energy and eliminated your carb cravings why mess with it?
3. Weight gain
After a carb refeed you will probably regain a couple of pounds of water weight. While this isn't a lot, and will probably go again within a few days, be aware of the effect mentally on you after seeing the scale increase.
Having said all that, if you feel a carb refeed will help you reach your goals then go for it.
If you lift heavy at all, you will notice week 2 on keto with no refeed is horrible. Lifts s)ck and your dieing in the middle of your sets... no real strength.
CKD is a god send. Helps me lose consistently and also lift heavy to avoid losing muscle mass.
Waking up on Sunday and eating straight no carb makes it easy to transition FYI. Once you are fat adapted, you dont get the carb cravings after waking up.
In my opinion, people should be track progress by their measurements then scale weight. Scale weight is good for reference, but I am more interested in that 6 pack
. So water weight is irrelevant.
Most people don't do a CKD right, which means beforehand you have to physically circuit your exercises (full body) right before carbing up until you basically fail. Its not a "cheat" day for low carb people, its to refill your muscle glycogen.
If you have excess muscle glycogen when you are CKDing then basically your just gonna have excess glycogen turn right back into fat. Which defeats the whole purpose.0 -
I would be careful with refeeds for the following reasons:
1. Carb cravings
I don't know how the cravings were for everyone but I know some people suffer with terribly. After a few eeks they go but what happens if you eat a ton of carbs again? Is it not a bit like an alcoholic going on an alcohol reefed?
2. Ketosis
You are either in ketosis or you're not. If going into ketosis has helped you lose weight, stabilised your energy and eliminated your carb cravings why mess with it?
3. Weight gain
After a carb refeed you will probably regain a couple of pounds of water weight. While this isn't a lot, and will probably go again within a few days, be aware of the effect mentally on you after seeing the scale increase.
Having said all that, if you feel a carb refeed will help you reach your goals then go for it.
If you lift heavy at all, you will notice week 2 on keto with no refeed is horrible. Lifts s)ck and your dieing in the middle of your sets... no real strength.
CKD is a god send. Helps me lose consistently and also lift heavy to avoid losing muscle mass.
Waking up on Sunday and eating straight no carb makes it easy to transition FYI. Once you are fat adapted, you dont get the carb cravings after waking up.
In my opinion, people should be track progress by their measurements then scale weight. Scale weight is good for reference, but I am more interested in that 6 pack. So water weight is irrelevant.
Most people don't do a CKD right, which means beforehand you have to physically circuit your exercises (full body) right before carbing up until you basically fail. Its not a "cheat" day for low carb people, its to refill your muscle glycogen.
If you have excess muscle glycogen when you are CKDing then basically your just gonna have excess glycogen turn right back into fat. Which defeats the whole purpose.
I have tried re-feeds after giving Kiefer's Carb Nite Soloution a shot. I found I would just eat far too much. I also didn't like the mental aspect of having one day when I was allowed to eat "Forbidden Foods." I'm not saying that re-feeding is something to be avoided, just that some people may cause themselves more grief than it's worth.
As for feeling rough while training after two weeks, that seems about right to me. According to Jeff Volek and Stephen Phinney in their book The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance it can take anywhere from three to six weeks for your body to fully adapt to the ketogenic diet.0 -
I've been doing Keto for 60 days now. I workout 5 days a week. Going to have a pizza tonight. Is that going to be ok?0
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In the past I've seen positive results with clean or dirty refeeds IF you're only talking carbs. As long as I flipped the fat/carb ration for that meal/day things worked well. If I went crazy on fat and carbs then the bump took longer to get rid of.
I'm one week back on keto and have no plans for refeed. Maybe I'll consider a refeed meal only once I hit the 4-6 week mark. I do lift 6 days/week, but am in the high bf% category.0 -
No refeed for me. I do ultra endurance, so I want to stay fat adapted, worked hard at getting there and am not putting that in jeopardy.
I don't believe in the reboot qualities if it can also put you on the path of a major carb creep. I am highly insulin resistant, so it would have the potential of putting me in a worse place.3 -
JisatsuHoshi wrote: »if in induction phase then you shouldnt refeed until after the 3rd week. Refeeds will help keep metabolism high since keto will slow it.
Afterwards:
- if bf%% is high then refeed bi-weekly with a "cheat meal"
- if bf%% is low then depending on how active one is you can have weekly or bi-weekly "cheat meal" or "cheat day"
I've read Fats should be kept low a on refeed days, But I dont feel anything eating clean...
I should have never popped into this thread. I have been curious about the science behind refeeds. I feel there is a lot of bro-science and not actual solid data. I haven't incorporated much exercise at this point. In fact when I was doing CICO I was exercising but after I started keto, I slowly stopped exercising because I was losing weight without it. I just got lazy. I fear a refeed for me once I'm fat-adapted and working out regularly would spiral me out of control, hinder my progress or just enable me to be lazy. I'm interested in following the thread and getting more advice. Mine would definitely be dirty!0 -
JisatsuHoshi wrote: »if in induction phase then you shouldnt refeed until after the 3rd week. Refeeds will help keep metabolism high since keto will slow it.
Afterwards:
- if bf%% is high then refeed bi-weekly with a "cheat meal"
- if bf%% is low then depending on how active one is you can have weekly or bi-weekly "cheat meal" or "cheat day"
I've read Fats should be kept low a on refeed days, But I dont feel anything eating clean...
I should have never popped into this thread. I have been curious about the science behind refeeds. I feel there is a lot of bro-science and not actual solid data. I haven't incorporated much exercise at this point. In fact when I was doing CICO I was exercising but after I started keto, I slowly stopped exercising because I was losing weight without it. I just got lazy. I fear a refeed for me once I'm fat-adapted and working out regularly would spiral me out of control, hinder my progress or just enable me to be lazy. I'm interested in following the thread and getting more advice. Mine would definitely be dirty!
@bowlerae - My kneejerk reaction would be that if you know it would be a dirty refeed for you automatically because you miss or crave those foods that you should probably never do a refeed - or at least never a dirty one. The things we compulsively crave, desire, or want the most are rarely good for us. I know that for me, that if I wanted something that intensely, having it would be all kinds of bad news for me...likely not for you, but definitely for me. Food for thought. But, I also dont' always spring back as quickly as I would like anymore, either.1 -
I should have never popped into this thread. I have been curious about the science behind refeeds. I feel there is a lot of bro-science and not actual solid data. I haven't incorporated much exercise at this point. In fact when I was doing CICO I was exercising but after I started keto, I slowly stopped exercising because I was losing weight without it. I just got lazy. I fear a refeed for me once I'm fat-adapted and working out regularly would spiral me out of control, hinder my progress or just enable me to be lazy. I'm interested in following the thread and getting more advice. Mine would definitely be dirty!
A critical point when talking refeeds is strenuous resistance training. If you're a strength athlete and focusing more on performance (i.e gainz) and the scale isn't as high priority then refeeds may play a more vital role. If you're not hitting the gym hard there is not a ton of need for replenishing muscle glycogen.
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »JisatsuHoshi wrote: »if in induction phase then you shouldnt refeed until after the 3rd week. Refeeds will help keep metabolism high since keto will slow it.
Afterwards:
- if bf%% is high then refeed bi-weekly with a "cheat meal"
- if bf%% is low then depending on how active one is you can have weekly or bi-weekly "cheat meal" or "cheat day"
I've read Fats should be kept low a on refeed days, But I dont feel anything eating clean...
I should have never popped into this thread. I have been curious about the science behind refeeds. I feel there is a lot of bro-science and not actual solid data. I haven't incorporated much exercise at this point. In fact when I was doing CICO I was exercising but after I started keto, I slowly stopped exercising because I was losing weight without it. I just got lazy. I fear a refeed for me once I'm fat-adapted and working out regularly would spiral me out of control, hinder my progress or just enable me to be lazy. I'm interested in following the thread and getting more advice. Mine would definitely be dirty!
@bowlerae - My kneejerk reaction would be that if you know it would be a dirty refeed for you automatically because you miss or crave those foods that you should probably never do a refeed - or at least never a dirty one. The things we compulsively crave, desire, or want the most are rarely good for us. I know that for me, that if I wanted something that intensely, having it would be all kinds of bad news for me...likely not for you, but definitely for me. Food for thought. But, I also dont' always spring back as quickly as I would like anymore, either.
that's where I am, exactly that spot, and that's why I don't do refeeds. Also, phrasing it as "refeed" suggests I'm not feeding myself now. But I am and in a much better way than I did when I was struggling with the carb load.1 -
Carb refeeds imo are definitely necessary when you are on Keto. The human body interprets ketosys as a state of starvation even when calories are relatively high and it will respond by doing all the nasty things it does when you are really starving yourself like lowering your leptin in an effort to make you hungrier as well as your Tyroid hormones in effort to conserve energy. Those facts are undisputed.
Unless you are doing something like a CKD or UD2 in which case the refeed is very complex and involved, a simple metabolic reset can be accomplished with a single evening meal with high carbs. The meal should not be a feast and should have enough carbs to knock you out of ketosys for a day or two at most.
The biggest mistake I have seen people make with refeeds is to see them as a chance to indulge. That should not be the point of a refeed. I have been on Keto for the past 2 years and I do periodic carb refeeds to keep my metabolism stoked. The strategy I use when refeeding is very simple. I never consume foods that I find more appealing than the foods I consume while on Keto. For example, I have done a refeed with a bag of Trader Joe's breaded chicken cutlets. They taste good but they are by no means teastier than the chicken wings I eat while on Keto. I have done another refeed with 6 McDonalds egg white delights. Same thing, pretty good, but no better then my almond meal biscuits with breakfast sausages. This strategy works because it prevents binging since none of the foods I consume are that rewarding and I am able to go right back to my Keto diet the very next day without mental issues.3 -
I'm relatively active i.e. 5-6 days/ week I would either bike ride or gym it...I have been doing keto diet for nearly 2 years with a few hiccups. Longest I have went w/o any carbs is 16 weeks. I have been testing and trying many different types of variations of Keto like the CKD or TKD which in my opinion are awful; your body is constantly in between metabolic states. But, doing SKD too long is not recommended. I would say, once Keto adapted, to do a carb refeed every 3-6 weeks (depending on the person). Try and go as long as possible; eventually you'll uncover your sweet spot. For me, it's 3-4 weeks...longer than 4 weeks, I get moody, my weight increases, I get these awful hunger cravings, metabolism slows (potentially causing an over active thyroid)...restricting carbs too long can put a stress on the body; all that clear thinking might go in reverse. At any rate, it's best to experiment.This is truly the best diet/ lifestyle in the entire world so take the time and figure out what works best BUT, never, ever dare to cross back into that world of grains/ carbs/ glucose. It's unnatural and causes nothing but inflammation in the body. We, as a species went a quarter of million years w/o them.0
