exogenous ketones?
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gsp90x
Posts: 416 Member
Hey all. So, please simply point me in the right direction if this is a stupid question.
I heard someone discussing the keto diet on a podcast. He was admittedly not an expert by any means but someone I would consider "well read".
He follows the keto diet. I feel best doing zero carb and can feel when my body has moved into full on fat burning and vice versa. I'm not really concerned about measuring ketones. I'm just more concerned about how I feel and on zero carb I feel great. Ok. Now that you know that...
So... Mr No Name (we'll call him) swears by ketones that you can put in your coffee. He says and I paraphrase here... If you slip up, or find you're not registering any ketones, then you take these and bam, within a few short hours you'll be registering ketones and be back in nutritional ketosis. Easy Peasy.
So my take on this is : of course you'll be registering ketones. You just ingested them. But that doesn't mean it just vaporizes all the carbs in your system causing your body to burn fat and produce ketones.......
or does it?
Could someone tell me if he's right, I'm right nobody's right, how do exogenous ketones work and why would someone want (or not want them).
Or simply point me in the right direction to find the answer. I'm not particularly interested in using them, it's just that this point has been nagging me and I feel I must be misunderstanding something somewhere.
Thanks for any helpful input.
I heard someone discussing the keto diet on a podcast. He was admittedly not an expert by any means but someone I would consider "well read".
He follows the keto diet. I feel best doing zero carb and can feel when my body has moved into full on fat burning and vice versa. I'm not really concerned about measuring ketones. I'm just more concerned about how I feel and on zero carb I feel great. Ok. Now that you know that...
So... Mr No Name (we'll call him) swears by ketones that you can put in your coffee. He says and I paraphrase here... If you slip up, or find you're not registering any ketones, then you take these and bam, within a few short hours you'll be registering ketones and be back in nutritional ketosis. Easy Peasy.
So my take on this is : of course you'll be registering ketones. You just ingested them. But that doesn't mean it just vaporizes all the carbs in your system causing your body to burn fat and produce ketones.......
or does it?
Could someone tell me if he's right, I'm right nobody's right, how do exogenous ketones work and why would someone want (or not want them).
Or simply point me in the right direction to find the answer. I'm not particularly interested in using them, it's just that this point has been nagging me and I feel I must be misunderstanding something somewhere.
Thanks for any helpful input.
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Replies
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I'm not sure but from what I've read you might get some benefit like more energy or focus from ingesting the ketones but not the fat burning effect.
Honestly once you are fat adapted you will more than likely be back in ketosis quite quickly because your body is now set up to prefer fat for fuel. Anytime I've eaten more carbs than usual I've been back to ketosis within hours or a day tops. No need to add ketones.2 -
I think @anglyn1 hit it on the nose. I think those might help for therapeutic reasons but possibly not for weight loss, unless you are insulin resistance and creating too much BG to make ketones, and you find it is the ketones that suppress your appetite (not proven but a possibility). Adding MCT oil will also produce ketones.
... I've heard Peter Attia describe exogenous ketones as tasting like rocket fuel. I can't imagine sipping that in coffee. LOL2 -
From what I've gathered, I think exogenous ketones are best used as an add on for therapeutic purposes or neurological benefits. If bang for buck is important.
Anglyn and nvmomketo nailed it above. Since ketones are a byproduct of fat oxidation, swallowing extra won't yield all the enzymes and mitochondria benefits the body makes when producing ketones naturally. That being said, if someone claims wellbeing it might be true. I haven't tested it myself...but I see a future experiment on the horizon.1 -
I've read two angles here:
1. Exogenous ketones can help rapidly blow through "keto flu" by going from 0 to whatever your stable level is more quickly. Theory being that the "in-between" levels are what make you feel like crap. I think this has more to do with the brain than anything else.
2. Athletes. Particularly endurance athletes. I don't understand the physiology or metabolism here, but topping off your ketones prior to a race or a big training day has some benefits. The idea being that if you add them exogenously then your body either has them more readily available for use and/or your body doesn't have to spend resources to produce them as much during the event.
I don't know if either of these actually are true or work, but I've seen both suggested in various blog posts and podcasts over the last few months.
If anyone finds anything science based or definitive on this topic, please post it!
R/Nick1 -
I've read two angles here:
1. Exogenous ketones can help rapidly blow through "keto flu" by going from 0 to whatever your stable level is more quickly. Theory being that the "in-between" levels are what make you feel like crap. I think this has more to do with the brain than anything else.
2. Athletes. Particularly endurance athletes. I don't understand the physiology or metabolism here, but topping off your ketones prior to a race or a big training day has some benefits. The idea being that if you add them exogenously then your body either has them more readily available for use and/or your body doesn't have to spend resources to produce them as much during the event.
I don't know if either of these actually are true or work, but I've seen both suggested in various blog posts and podcasts over the last few months.
If anyone finds anything science based or definitive on this topic, please post it!
R/Nick
The problem with the idea of it helping "keto flu" is that it's just sodium deficiency. Keto flu is just a term used to describe the symptoms of low sodium that occur so often because most people don't know you need between 3000-5000mg sodium every day on keto. This supplement doesn't address sodium loss at all. So it may boost ketones and that may help a person feel a little more peppy, but it would be leaving a potentially dangerous deficiency untreated.3 -
I use pure therapeutic ketones for neurological reasons. The one I use has MCT oils added as well as extra sodium. It is an orange cream flavor. My husband uses the chocolate swirl flavor. His has pro and pre-biotics as opposed to the MCT oils. This is a link to the research that the company has provided regarding ketone supplementation. www.hollyjackson.pruvitnow.com/research
I know by group guidelines promoting of a product isn't allowed...that is NOT at all what I am doing. I just know there is a lot of great info available to those who may be wondering more about ketogenic diets as well as the use of pure therapuetic ketones.2 -
Reports I've heard from people are it's pretty good as an appetite suppressant more than anything. There just isn't enough science out there to say where it does anything for increased fat burning OVER and beyond just being fat adapted.3
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Thank you everyone. These were my feelings as well. I'm just a little disappointed in this person as they have SO many, literally, SOOOO many viewers I hate when misinformation is unknowingly passed around about something that, when done well, has helped so many people.
But this discussion makes me a bit more confident that I am understanding what I'm reading regarding all the postings on keto and how it works.
thanks again!0 -
FYI, here's a research summary - with journal citations - that may be of interest. This is from an MCT Oil manufacturer/vendor. (This is not a plug.)
https://ketomct.com/pages/mct-research
I heard the company's founder in a recent interview with Jimmy Moore. I'm no chemist, etc., but he sounded straight and knowledgeable.1 -
"Most important fact here: Ketones are the result, not the cause, of using fat for fuel. Ketones do not drive the process of “burning fat”; they are the byproduct of it."
from http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2016/12/ketogenic-diet-rant.html?m=1
The way I came to understand it was my mom bought into a multi-level-marketing diet/supplement program and their daily shake had ketones in it. They also had her check her urine with ketone strips. She told me she drank the shake and check her urine one hour later and had moderate ketones in her urine. Ingesting and peeing out ketones does not mean you are in ketosis! You only pee them out because your body is not using them and is filtering them and getting rid of them as waste.
Let your body make its own ketones by what you eat/don't eat, not by ingesting them.4 -
allie2girlz wrote: »"Most important fact here: Ketones are the result, not the cause, of using fat for fuel. Ketones do not drive the process of “burning fat”; they are the byproduct of it."
from http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2016/12/ketogenic-diet-rant.html?m=1
The way I came to understand it was my mom bought into a multi-level-marketing diet/supplement program and their daily shake had ketones in it. They also had her check her urine with ketone strips. She told me she drank the shake and check her urine one hour later and had moderate ketones in her urine. Ingesting and peeing out ketones does not mean you are in ketosis! You only pee them out because your body is not using them and is filtering them and getting rid of them as waste.
Let your body make its own ketones by what you eat/don't eat, not by ingesting them.
That is a great blog. Thanks for the link. And the last photo looks like dinner.1
