Salt tablets. Take one with a sip of water about every 3-4 miles. I ran a very happy and easy 1/2 marathon while fasted with only salt as fuel. I'm not an expert by any means, but I run a lot, do distances and races, in a hot environment and usually with no food. The salt tabs have been a life savior, I used to get hyponatermia.

Maybe @lodro will pop in. Ultradistance cycling.

codename_steve wrote: »

I've never used salt tablets. Where can I get them? What do I need to know about purchasing them? It makes sense that sodium is the problem, because by mile 10 I've sweat quite a bit. I tried drinking salted water but it didn't taste very good.

I've also thought about trying to drink an extra cup of broth the night before a long run. Would this help for a morning run?

I've gotten them at Walgreens. You have to ask for them in the pharmacy as sodium tablets.

I feel my salt intake is generally just right. But I dont pay much attention to timing. However, today I dosed myself with about half a teaspoon of plain table salt as it's what I had at work right before I left for the gym for my run. About 30 min prior to actually running. Had a great run today. So, there may be something to timing salt intake for me.

@codename_steve I wasnt terribly scientific about it I'm afraid. I poured out the salt and casually dipped my finger in it licking till it was gone. Lol. I drank about 8 oz of water on the way to the gym and come to think of it I did have a wee stitch in my side. I attributed it to scrappy breathing technique but maybe it was the water!

@codename_steve - the first sodium dose looks to be too early. According to Dr Phinney, it should be 1000 mg about 30 minutes prior. That is for hard core endurance athletes. I do about half that personally and it has helped. For comparison, I will get closer to 6-7 miles in that hour with about 1 -1.5 miles of that being a fast walk (4.7 mph) and the rest running at a pace between 7.5-8.6 mph depending on how I am feeling that day. I don't go any longer than that just because I don't have time before work.

Actually, I rotate my workouts and just changed to more focus on strength training last week, but I had been doing the running/walking for about 10 weeks or so.

If you take the sodium too soon, you likely peed much of it out before you started. You also need to combine it with 8-12 oz of water right before you start. The way the sodium helps is that when you get your heart rate up, your blood volume expands. This will be done by sucking water from all your cells and dehydrating you on the cellular level. The sodium helps with retaining that extra water you take in right before you start so that you are not pulling as much from the cellular level.

All of the above is for someone in ketosis. If you have net carbs at 50g per day, you are going to likely be going in and out of ketosis throughout the day and never becoming fully fat adapted. Please do not misunderstand, there are plenty of advantages to being LC but not keto. There seems to be some evidence that strength training, sprinting, and other short burst exercise does better with this approach. However for things that take longer term endurance, keto seems to have the advantage.

I would not rule out BP since it would have normalized some from the time you stopped to the time you made it too the grocery store. Both high and low BP can cause dizziness. Personally, I have much more of an issue with low BP, but I think I am in the minority there. The dizzy when standing is what I regularly experience because of my lowish BP. It is not that unusual for mine to get as low as 90's over 40's - especially if I stay sitting relaxed for a while.

Last thought is you might have overall electrolyte imbalance with not enough potassium and/or magnesium. Avocado is a better choice than a banana for potassium and magnesium as they have roughly the same amount per calorie, but bananas are the highest sugar fruit there is, so that part may negatively affect you here.

codename_steve wrote: »

@cstehansen thanks for the reply! I will try taking the sodium closer to starting next saturday as well as a little more water with it. Would getting sodium right help with possible blood pressure weirdness?

Do you think I should lower my carbs further? I did think about the avocado instead of banana, but (thinking about prerun) was worried about the fiber level.

I have been supplementing magnesium, along with K2, so I think I'm ok there, but haven't paid too much attention to potassium since it's so hard to track accurately.

ETA: I've also been thinking about trying to plan my carbs for that day before my run. But I worry that this would defeat the purpose of running while being fat adapted.

I can't guarantee the timing of the sodium would affect BP, but it is what I would try first.

As for cutting carbs further, that is a personal thing and depends on your goals. If endurance athletics is your goal, then it might be a good idea to get below 20. Don't worry about the dietary fiber in an avocado pre-run unless you have a wicked fast metabolism as it shouldn't get through you quick enough to make a difference.

Personally (and I stress this is personally as everyone is different), I run fasted in the morning. If you are fat adapted, your body doesn't really care if it is pulling fat from your diet or from your belly, so there is no need to eat beforehand. There is also enough glucagon in your muscles for that first little bit without doing any carb loading. Eating beforehand is really just to get the glucose for sugar burning. Personally, I have more issues with eating beforehand (within 60-90 minutes) causing cramping during the run than getting any benefit from it.

Don't overdo potassium as you can actually poison yourself if you go too high. This is one reason I suggest getting it from real foods like avocado, spinach, celery, etc. Any supplementation would be a dash of salt substitute here and there, but not too much.

codename_steve wrote: »

Was finally able to finish a 16 mile run!!

So I think I've finally figured it out. I took two salt tablets at the start of my run, then 2 more at each 30 minute interval. It ended up being somewhere around 15 tablets. Is that normal/ok?

Thinking back on my runs a couple weeks ago, I realize that around miles 6-8 I would stop sweating. I was so excited when I realized I was on mile 10 and still dripping! Feeling the salt left on my skin after the sweat had dried kinda validated for me that I really was losing a ton of sodium.

Check this guy out: http://zachbitter.com/blog/

He has set records in ultra marathons doing LCHF. He likely has some really good info for you on this.

Personally, I think as long as you are also getting the fluids with that salt, then you got it right. I am not a runner. I will only rotate it into my workouts for 2-3 months once or twice a year and will usually top out at running 5-6 miles by the end and then drop it for 6-10 months before picking it back up again. With those distances, just the salt 30 minutes prior and added water right before I start I get enough.