Protein, Macro Targets, & Ketosis
gotblues66
Posts: 58 Member
I'm sure it's been asked before so my apologies... probably a silly question.
I've read up a fair bit on keto dieting and have not really seen a direct answer to this.
Can one go high protein, low carb, and low to moderate fat and remain in fat adapted ketosis?
I'm thinking of macros around 50/5/45 (protein/carbs/fat)
I've read up a fair bit on keto dieting and have not really seen a direct answer to this.
Can one go high protein, low carb, and low to moderate fat and remain in fat adapted ketosis?
I'm thinking of macros around 50/5/45 (protein/carbs/fat)
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Replies
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possibly, particularly if you are doing a lot of heavy exercise...some people must be under 20g carb to stay in ketosis and others can eat 50g carb and stay in ketosis...the same is true of protein, some people will have higher limits than others before shifting out of ketosis...50% protein is a lot of protein, the upper limit for keto is usually 30%, but everyone is different...you could increasing protein in 5% or 10% increments and seeing how you feel and if you still seem to be in ketosis.2
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I run close to 85/10/5 p/f/c when cutting, and remain in nutritional ketosis the entire time. I say close to, because it's actually set up on hard macro numbers (1.75g p/lbs. LBM, trace carbs and fats, and EFAs from fish oil caps).3
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Thanks for the quick replies. I only have ketostix to go by, which are known to be somewhat inaccurate. But I guess I'll have to start some experimentation. I am having a hard time with that last 5 - 10 lbs of fat. The fat loss progress is slower than I hoped for, and I'm totally stagnant building muscle in 30/5/65 keto with caloric deficit. So I feel like I need to change something. I'd just hate to bail on it too soon, maybe the big whoosh is right around the corner, lol. I'm also doing 16:8 IF. Maybe I'll try upping protein a bit and carbs a bit to push my calories into maintenance range, monitor with ketostix, and hope I don't derail that fat loss train.1
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Half of protein is expected to be converted to glucose on average daily.1
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I know it sounds counterproductive but you could try bumping up your calories a bit.....Not too much just by 100 calories or so to see if it has any effect.
When I first started keto I lost 8.5 lbs the first week and then just seemed to stay level for quite some time even though I was only eating around 1200 calories per day. I decided to try bumping up my calories to 1300 just to see what would happen and I started losing again. Go figure!1 -
@swezeytba interesting. Yes I've heard some anecdotal and self experimentation stories like that, especially with resistance training put into the mix. Given my IF/work/gym/life routine and eating habits if I can't get the additional calories from carbs (which are soooo easy to consume), it's gonna have to be more of my low carb protein shakes with MCT oil. I just can't seem to cook/eat enough meat or fat to get up to maintenance or surplus. Of course, if it's only 100 cals/day that shouldn't be too hard. I'm also contemplating targeted keto (additional 50g fast carbs around workout) More experimentation to follow.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »Half of protein is expected to be converted to glucose on average daily.
Oxidation and GNG are not the same thing. The 50% ratio applies to the former.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22139560/ for reference.
"When protein intake surpasses the physiological needs of amino acids, the excess amino acids are disposed of by three major processes: 1. Increased oxidation, with terminal end products such as CO₂ and ammonia 2. Enhanced ureagenesis i. e. synthesis of urea linked to protein oxidation eliminates the nitrogen radical 3. Gluconeogenesis, i. e. de novo synthesis of glucose. Most of the amino groups of the excess amino acids are converted into urea through the urea cycle, whereas their carbon skeletons are transformed into other intermediates, mostly glucose. This is one of the mechanisms, essential for life, developed by the body to maintain blood glucose within a narrow range, (i. e. glucose homeostasis)."5 -
That's good to know @Gallowmere1984. I think I need to ramp up my record keeping. Actually get a scale and start measuring more so I can properly monitor changes. I understand there are better ways to track ketosis than ketostix, but I believe they are a bit pricey and/or require drawing blood (ACK! Not gonna happen!). But it will be important to only introduce one change a time...not sure if I have the patience to stick with it since every time I change a variable it can take a month or more to properly assess results , we'll see. I'll start by adding a protein shake every day, adding 100 cals or so to my daily intake. It will likely do nothing to fat loss, but might help my lifts a bit. C'mon whoosh, restore my faith!1
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gotblues66 wrote: »That's good to know @Gallowmere1984. I think I need to ramp up my record keeping. Actually get a scale and start measuring more so I can properly monitor changes. I understand there are better ways to track ketosis than ketostix, but I believe they are a bit pricey and/or require drawing blood (ACK! Not gonna happen!). But it will be important to only introduce one change a time...not sure if I have the patience to stick with it since every time I change a variable it can take a month or more to properly assess results , we'll see. I'll start by adding a protein shake every day, adding 100 cals or so to my daily intake. It will likely do nothing to fat loss, but might help my lifts a bit. C'mon whoosh, restore my faith!
Accurately measuring intake is definitely important, if you want to he able to perceive how modifications affect you. This is especially true over the long term, where trend causation is all but invisible, in the absence of proper record keeping.
I look at food intake tracking much like I do a lifting journal/log. In the early stages, it's really easy to see the progress, because it's happening so quickly. You don't need a diary to let you remember that you added 50 lbs. to your squat, and lost 15 lbs. in the last month. However, once you start getting into diminishing returns, it can takes weeks or months to see progress, and the human brain just can't keep up with extremely minor details on such a timeline. Most people can't remember exactly how much of what they had for breakfast this morning, let alone what they were eating five months ago.3
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