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The 2017 Bulking-After-40 Program (Joe's New Routine)

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2

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  • jvcinv
    jvcinv Posts: 504 Member
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    When you say you're tired of eating do you mean tired of eating more frequently or in greater quantities in order to support the bulking up process?
  • arguablysamson
    arguablysamson Posts: 1,706 Member
    edited April 2017
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    jvcinv wrote: »
    When you say you're tired of eating do you mean tired of eating more frequently or in greater quantities in order to support the bulking up process?

    Yes. It takes so much to get one's body to grow to new levels (down or up). It requires a good amount of dedication (eating and working out). It's hard to eat a lot and blast one's muscles consistently each week! Fun, yes, but still hard!
  • blambo61
    blambo61 Posts: 4,372 Member
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    Whey protein is easy to get down without taking up a lot of volume.
  • jjrogalski73
    jjrogalski73 Posts: 15 Member
    edited April 2017
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    In my opinion, having powerlifted for years, you dont need to work each muscle group 3 times a week and I would advise against doing so, especially us guys in our 40's. Hit it hard, heavy and intense, no more than an hour, especially if you train fasted. GH is high during this time period but only for so long. Me personally, I lift 3 times per week and have no issues with getting stronger. For example, DAY 1 is chest & back, DAY 2 legs & shoulders, DAY 3 is bis & tris. You can reverse the order you train the following week, and go backwards to keep from stagnating. I do the "push/pull" routine because you can do it back to back without stopping (i.e: lat pulldowns, then incline bench, THEN rest....a.k.a "supersetting").

    As for nutrition, after YEARS of believing the "Bro Science" crap, protein windows and all that foolisness....that only applies to those who are "enhanced". I put on muscle, but I also got fat eating too much protein and eating what all the mags said, which is why I am OMADing now. Only supplement I use now is creatine in MIO water, because there have been numerous studies that state creatine monohydrate is proven to work. I take NO protein powder whatsoever and over the last decade probably tried EVERY powder known to man. I think they are waste of money personally and I regret using them. Only thing they were good for is if I needed a good laxative (sorry for being crude, but true indeed). I found training while fasted on a cup of black cawwwfeeee is the best, and I wait at LEAST 3-4 hours before I eat my OMAD.

    One thing to note is how NFL Legend Herschel Walker has trained on OMAD for over 20 years in his YouTube video about his diet, at a high level, and has always been in ridiculous shape. He has also never lifted weights. He is genetically gifted, but I would say if it can work for him, it can work for anyone. And after years of lifting, injuries and all, it sucks finding out at THIS point in life you have muscle that is worthless and non-functional. So Im switching to mostly calisthenics. Ive watched inmates work out on the rec yard for hours doing body weight exercises and are jacked beyond belief and strong with NO supplementation or access to the things we have on the outside. That got me thinking after 14 years in this game. I need to change my "lift things up and pewt them down" mentality. Benching a lot of weight means nothing when you get punched in the face. Sorry for the rant folks. Just things Ive learned over the years and observed.......
  • arguablysamson
    arguablysamson Posts: 1,706 Member
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    In my opinion, having powerlifted for years, you dont need to work each muscle group 3 times a week and I would advise against doing so, especially us guys in our 40's. Hit it hard, heavy and intense, no more than an hour, especially if you train fasted. GH is high during this time period but only for so long. Me personally, I lift 3 times per week and have no issues with getting stronger. For example, DAY 1 is chest & back, DAY 2 legs & shoulders, DAY 3 is bis & tris. You can reverse the order you train the following week, and go backwards to keep from stagnating. I do the "push/pull" routine because you can do it back to back without stopping (i.e: lat pulldowns, then incline bench, THEN rest....a.k.a "supersetting").

    As for nutrition, after YEARS of believing the "Bro Science" crap, protein windows and all that foolisness....that only applies to those who are "enhanced". I put on muscle, but I also got fat eating too much protein and eating what all the mags said, which is why I am OMADing now. Only supplement I use now is creatine in MIO water, because there have been numerous studies that state creatine monohydrate is proven to work. I take NO protein powder whatsoever and over the last decade probably tried EVERY powder known to man. I think they are waste of money personally and I regret using them. Only thing they were good for is if I needed a good laxative (sorry for being crude, but true indeed). I found training while fasted on a cup of black cawwwfeeee is the best, and I wait at LEAST 3-4 hours before I eat my OMAD.

    One thing to note is how NFL Legend Herschel Walker has trained on OMAD for over 20 years in his YouTube video about his diet, at a high level, and has always been in ridiculous shape. He has also never lifted weights. He is genetically gifted, but I would say if it can work for him, it can work for anyone. And after years of lifting, injuries and all, it sucks finding out at THIS point in life you have muscle that is worthless and non-functional. So Im switching to mostly calisthenics. Ive watched inmates work out on the rec yard for hours doing body weight exercises and are jacked beyond belief and strong with NO supplementation or access to the things we have on the outside. That got me thinking after 14 years in this game. I need to change my "lift things up and pewt them down" mentality. Benching a lot of weight means nothing when you get punched in the face. Sorry for the rant folks. Just things Ive learned over the years and observed.......

    I appreciate your perspective, Josh. Me, I don't seem to grow as well unless I workout when sore and do a consistent three days. I can blast my muscles and not respond quite as well. It's frequency that seems to matter to me. I will try the reverse-order thing. Sounds fun. Today, I am doing an arm day -- briachialis curls and skull crushers!
  • jjrogalski73
    jjrogalski73 Posts: 15 Member
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    I only mentioned what I did because at our age, it is in recovery/time off from working whatever muscle is where the growth and strength will come from if that is your goal. Kind of like your vid on "Less Equals More". The same principle rule is true when it comes to muscle growth and strength. If you are sore, you can end up getting seriously hurt or tear a muscle if the DOMS is bad enough (Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness) because stress is being placed AGAIN on an already stressed muscle that has microscopic tears on it while it is trying to recover. The muscle worked HAS to have time to recover and rebuild or you could end up becoming weaker and actually lose muscle and get injured, or tweak a rotator cuff or shoulder and then your screwed. I am always sore after I workout. Sometimes for days. If I am not sore, its because I didn't hit it heavy, hard and intense enough. Letting it rest is where you will make the most gains. TRUST me. I used to think doing more would do more for me. It never worked. I learned by experience the hard way the old iron adage in the weight room to "Work smarter, not harder". Lol
  • jseams1234
    jseams1234 Posts: 1,218 Member
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    I only mentioned what I did because at our age, it is in recovery/time off from working whatever muscle is where the growth and strength will come from if that is your goal. Kind of like your vid on "Less Equals More". The same principle rule is true when it comes to muscle growth and strength. If you are sore, you can end up getting seriously hurt or tear a muscle if the DOMS is bad enough...

    Serious truth. I do a pretty intense 3 day split (I'm 46) and my gains have been exponential compared to when I was working out more frequently. Granted, my days in the gym are INTENSE and I walk out feeling like jello and the DOMS are always a reminder that I'm not a young kid anymore.
  • arguablysamson
    arguablysamson Posts: 1,706 Member
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    jseams1234 wrote: »
    I only mentioned what I did because at our age, it is in recovery/time off from working whatever muscle is where the growth and strength will come from if that is your goal. Kind of like your vid on "Less Equals More". The same principle rule is true when it comes to muscle growth and strength. If you are sore, you can end up getting seriously hurt or tear a muscle if the DOMS is bad enough...

    Serious truth. I do a pretty intense 3 day split (I'm 46) and my gains have been exponential compared to when I was working out more frequently. Granted, my days in the gym are INTENSE and I walk out feeling like jello and the DOMS are always a reminder that I'm not a young kid anymore.

    It's so funny since, the more I take off to heal, the more sore I get. it's as if my body is a kid starting to act up once I wait for it to react. It do medium to light effort and do three days per muscle group. I want to tax the muscle and teach the cells to expand. Seems to be the only way to really get at it. I'm taking a break for these last couple of days and today.
  • jjrogalski73
    jjrogalski73 Posts: 15 Member
    edited April 2017
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    jseams1234 wrote: »
    I only mentioned what I did because at our age, it is in recovery/time off from working whatever muscle is where the growth and strength will come from if that is your goal. Kind of like your vid on "Less Equals More". The same principle rule is true when it comes to muscle growth and strength. If you are sore, you can end up getting seriously hurt or tear a muscle if the DOMS is bad enough...

    Serious truth. I do a pretty intense 3 day split (I'm 46) and my gains have been exponential compared to when I was working out more frequently. Granted, my days in the gym are INTENSE and I walk out feeling like jello and the DOMS are always a reminder that I'm not a young kid anymore.

    Yes sir, like Ive said and will say again........agreed....your strength & gains will come from rest & recovery. Not more frequency. And not at our age. And dang sure not if your fasted. It is your body's way of saying "HEY......were good!" because it is not used to the stress while dealing with OTHER stresses. The older we get, the longer it takes to recover, unless you have "assistance". The LONGER it takes to get used to doing also, especially for those who get into weights later in life.

    I once recently worked my lats SO hard with heavy dumbell rows and lat pulldowns that it wasnt the next day, it was the DAY AFTER my lat locked up while trying to "wipe". Lol. Sorry for the crude example. Imagine if I hit back/lats again on the day I was supposed to hit it again when DOMS hit unexpectedly. Id probably hurt myself real bad.

    It is the same after a brutal leg day and then you go and try and sit in a chair. Try working your legs 2 days later again just to SEE if you could even do it. I know I couldnt. In my late 20s, early 30s, I could recover quicker by doing more.

    Now that Im almost mid 40s, I have found that is not the case at all. So I trick my body now by spacing out the workouts, and reversing the order of my 3 day workouts. For example, if I ended on Friday doing legs, I hit them again on Monday and go backwards. Keeping my body guessing keeps it from stagnating and then growth occurs between the workouts because my body never knows what Im going to hit it with in the iron house when I go. The element of surprise. Too bad I had to learn this truth the long and hard way. Lol
  • blambo61
    blambo61 Posts: 4,372 Member
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    what is DOMS?

    I had an interesting experience with weights yesterday after a 20-hr fast. I always bonk and can't go heavy after that long of a fast and it is hard getting through the workout. I took a scoop of UCAN superstarch (super slow release carb) about 45-min before I went and I didn't bonk. Maybe other carbs would act the same but I have tried a candy bar and other things right before lifting and they helped but I would still felt compromised (maybe the high sugar shut off fat metabolism and lessened energy due to the carbs?). Only one data point. Stuff is too expensive to use just for regular lifting but I'm hoping it will allow me to run some 5ks on an empty stomach (with the exception of the UCAN) and not get sick to my stomach from having food in it while racing and also not bonking which I can do if I run those after a 20-hr fast.
  • arguablysamson
    arguablysamson Posts: 1,706 Member
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    blambo61 wrote: »
    what is DOMS?

    Delayed. Onset. Muscle. Soreness.
  • jjrogalski73
    jjrogalski73 Posts: 15 Member
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    blambo61 wrote: »
    what is DOMS?

    I had an interesting experience with weights yesterday after a 20-hr fast. I always bonk and can't go heavy after that long of a fast and it is hard getting through the workout. I took a scoop of UCAN superstarch (super slow release carb) about 45-min before I went and I didn't bonk. Maybe other carbs would act the same but I have tried a candy bar and other things right before lifting and they helped but I would still felt compromised (maybe the high sugar shut off fat metabolism and lessened energy due to the carbs?). Only one data point. Stuff is too expensive to use just for regular lifting but I'm hoping it will allow me to run some 5ks on an empty stomach (with the exception of the UCAN) and not get sick to my stomach from having food in it while racing and also not bonking which I can do if I run those after a 20-hr fast.

    DOMS is "Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness". One thing you have to be careful of if you TRAIN fasted is to keep your workout volume super low. Like less than 7 sets and you need to rest about 4-5 minutes between sets. If you find training fasted doesnt work for you, dont have carbs before you workout. Have your OMAD, then go train several hours later (like 5-6hours later). Preworkout "meals" are a myth. Move it post workout and watch what happens. Me personally, I train fasted, then I have my meal several hours later. I don't take any supplements. Being fasted before training or a run does not mean to have superstarch or a candybar. That is not fasted. Try BCAA powder before your workout. There are no calories and it may help. Ive used it before, but like you said, that stuff gets expensive. I like black Starbucks coffee with stevia in it before I do anything.
  • blambo61
    blambo61 Posts: 4,372 Member
    edited April 2017
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    If I workout fasted in the morning, I don't bonk and still have enough glycogen (10-hr fast). So that is how I can get around it. If I go 20 hrs and then workout, I will bonk about every time. The 5ks I want to run are after work so I'm trying to figure out the best way to tackle that, still fast, not have an upset stomach, and not bonk.

    I do each muscle group twice a week. I do two warm up sets, 1st one 7-reps at 50% goal weight, next one is 3-reps @75% goal weight, next is 10-rep @ goal weight, next is 10-reps @ 90% goal weight, and last one is 10-reps @ 80% goal weight. If I can do all that, I move up in weight. I do all my lifts in a session so I lift twice a week and hit each exercise that I do (bench, row, mil press, lat pull-down, up-right row, dips, dead lift, leg press, calf raises, weighted crunches, and back-ups for lower back). Not a power-lifter routine but I like it. Progress is a little slow since I do so much in a session but my main emphasis is running. I run 3x week on days I'm not lifting.
  • jjrogalski73
    jjrogalski73 Posts: 15 Member
    edited April 2017
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    blambo61 wrote: »
    If I workout fasted in the morning, I don't bonk and still have enough glycogen (10-hr fast). So that is how I can get around it. If I go 20 hrs and then workout, I will bonk about every time. The 5ks I want to run are after work so I'm trying to figure out the best way to tackle that, still fast, not have an upset stomach, and not bonk.

    I do each muscle group twice a week. I do two warm up sets, 1st one 7-reps at 50% goal weight, next one is 3-reps @75% goal weight, next is 10-rep @ goal weight, next is 10-reps @ 90% goal weight, and last one is 10-reps @ 80% goal weight. If I can do all that, I move up in weight. I do all my lifts in a session so I lift twice a week and hit each exercise that I do (bench, row, mil press, lat pull-down, up-right row, dips, dead lift, leg press, calf raises, weighted crunches, and back-ups for lower back). Not a power-lifter routine but I like it. Progress is a little slow since I do so much in a session but my main emphasis is running. I run 3x week on days I'm not lifting.

    I dont powerlift anymore because I had my knee recently reconstructed. I lift as heavy as possible, yes, but no more powerlifting. I built a pretty solid foundation to work on, so I just lift to stay in shape. I plan to change my routine because of my surgery, because I want to be able to do more functional strength workouts instead of lifting heavy weights. Im too old and my joints got some Rice Crispy action going on now. Lol.

    In regards to any "routine", like I tell most if they ask, the best routine is the one you'll do. I find when I wake up, I get my workout out of the way, be it weights or walking. I then bookend or center my meal / nutrition around that workout, and most of the times it is up to a few hours AFTER I workout. Now, if I go a whole day be it 20hrs or more fasted like you mentioned above, Ill eat, THEN go workout a few hours later and Im not suffering at all. Its pointless to fast for 20hrs then try to workout. I have done it before and feel great, so I cant say I have suffered like you have. However, I have found if I workout right when I get up, that normally doesnt happen because I know Im gonna eventually eat. I work shift, so my day is typically backwards to most anyways. :)
  • shaeliya
    shaeliya Posts: 5 Member
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    Vanguard1 wrote: »
    I was saying to another member last night "I dont want to be skinny". Once I hit my goal, I plan on adjusting calories for muscle growth. Sounds like you have a solid plan, good luck!!

    Sigh...I do.
  • wsandy8512
    wsandy8512 Posts: 1,897 Member
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    @arguablysamson, how is your bulk going now that you're a couple of months into it?
  • x3nomorph
    x3nomorph Posts: 174 Member
    edited May 2017
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    I've had decent energy so far with my workouts while doing OMAD, 5 weeks in.

    My meal is around 8 or 9 pm and I workout at 5am, 4 to 5 times a week, I sip through my session with some Xtend BCAAs mixed with water

    4 out of the 5 workouts are based around barbell compound movements, deadlifts, squats, rows, military press, power cleans, pullups and dips, the 5th workout is kettlebell work, and pullups/dips, sometimes I skip the kettlebell day

    I don't think I could do it 20+ hours into the fast, I eat at night and workout early morning so I have decent glycogen levels to blast my skeletal muscle
  • arguablysamson
    arguablysamson Posts: 1,706 Member
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    wsandy8512 wrote: »
    @arguablysamson, how is your bulk going now that you're a couple of months into it?

    I have dropped back into strict OMAD for the time being. I will resume the bulk probably in about 2 to 4 months.
  • wsandy8512
    wsandy8512 Posts: 1,897 Member
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    wsandy8512 wrote: »
    @arguablysamson, how is your bulk going now that you're a couple of months into it?

    I have dropped back into strict OMAD for the time being. I will resume the bulk probably in about 2 to 4 months.

    I hope it goes better for you next time you try. I can imagine it's hard to eat more to bulk after having lost so much weight. Personally, I'd probably be too panicky about gaining fat weight versus muscle weight to even try. lol

  • arguablysamson
    arguablysamson Posts: 1,706 Member
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    wsandy8512 wrote: »
    wsandy8512 wrote: »
    @arguablysamson, how is your bulk going now that you're a couple of months into it?

    I have dropped back into strict OMAD for the time being. I will resume the bulk probably in about 2 to 4 months.

    I hope it goes better for you next time you try. I can imagine it's hard to eat more to bulk after having lost so much weight. Personally, I'd probably be too panicky about gaining fat weight versus muscle weight to even try. lol

    Its actually quite fun, but it has to be done in cycles since some fat gain is inevitable.