Anybody using Garmin's auto-FTP?
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NorthCascades
Posts: 10,970 Member
It's in all the newer units: the 520, 820, 1000, and several watches.
I recently got a watch with this feature, and I'm trying to figure out how large a grain of salt to take it with.
I understand that nothing beats a good test, but that's not in the cards very often, and sometimes the computer has a new estimation.
My approach has been to try the new number and see if it makes sense (training targets and intensity factors for rides in general) but I'd love to hear other peoples' thoughts on this feature if anybody else is using it.
I recently got a watch with this feature, and I'm trying to figure out how large a grain of salt to take it with.
I understand that nothing beats a good test, but that's not in the cards very often, and sometimes the computer has a new estimation.
My approach has been to try the new number and see if it makes sense (training targets and intensity factors for rides in general) but I'd love to hear other peoples' thoughts on this feature if anybody else is using it.
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I haven't used it since I do test regularly. I haven't paid it much attention but maybe I will. It would be interesting to see what it says compared to my formal testing.0
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I've had my watch for about a month. This feature has popped up at the end of three rides, giving me 3, then 4, then 12 more watts. Pretty small little nudges, well, the last one isn't tiny.
The way Garmin (Firstbeat really) did this is very weird. The feature requires a chest strap HRM. I was going to ignore it entirely when I read that, but the first time it happened it came up with an estimate that was 3 watts higher than my last test, and I guess I'm a little intrigued.0 -
I really suck at doing the FTP tests, but I only have a Edge 500 and I don't have a power meter. Right now I've used the average heart rate for a 20+ minute difficult but sustained climb.0
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Interesting. What do you do with that number, @BusyRaeNOTBusty? Do you try to keep your HR below what you come up with on future climbs to pace yourself? Do you use it as a fitness indicator?0
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I having been doing an training plan from LW Coaching. She uses heart rate zones a lot for the different intervals in the plans, so I mainly use it for that. But it's also about as hard as I can go on a climb without burning out and having to stop and catch my breath.
The zones are also used for the "Fitness and Freshness" calculations through Strava Premium. Those seem to be a pretty good indication of actual fitness.
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My Garmin (Edge 800) is too old for that function but I do the Wattbike Hub 20 min FTP tests program on a WattBike Pro.
What do I do with it?
Not a lot really! Mostly just an interesting metric to plot progress.
It really just confirms what I already feel about what power is sustainable for what duration.
My winter indoor training does include quite a lot of long duration intervals either side of my sustainable output.
So if 200w for an hour is my maximum I would do an hour of 5 or 6 minute intervals at 140/220 watts or 150/210 watts for example.
Outdoors I just use HR as a guide, that's fine for my style of riding.0 -
not been using the auto FTP, but I do use the "recovery advisor" - It doesn't seem to be particularly discriminating though - 90 minute ride at "full gas" (np=98% of ftp), recovery time approx 22 hours. 135 minute ride, again pretty intense (np=102% of ftp) - recovery time 22 hours. Todays ride, 200 minutes, np=95% of ftp (which for a 3 hour ride isn't exactly pi$$ing around) - you guessed it, recovery time 22 hours.
I think it's basically just saying "you'll be right after a nights sleep mate"...
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I think it becomes a bit more useful with a heart rate monitor, maybe. When I've used it on rides over an hour, the time has gone up markedly. I've seen it recommend 67 hours for me. For completeness sake, I've got a power meter and HRM connected, so maybe it's the combination that matters.0
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After my heart problems of nearly two years ago, I never ride without the heart rate strap, so it's always getting that data as well as the power...
May e it's just that my FTP is so ludicrously low that it reckons I can't take too long to recover from anything... Who knows, I only leave it on because it gives me a giggle at the end of the ride to see 22 hours come up over and over again.0 -
In that case, I've got nothing. I've seen it recommend as few as 6 hours (for rides where I didn't even hop on for an hour and was just testing settings) all the way up to 67 hours (for a 3 hour ride where my HR averaged over 150).
When riding, my HR gets up to around 150-160bpm, and all the tools I've seen project a max HR for me of 185bpm (so my HR zone is labeled as "Super Threshold" or "Aerobic Capacity"). My FTP right now is 255, and my weight of 98.3kgs puts me at a W/kg of 2.6W/kg. How do you compare? Would any of that info, if plugged in for you, maybe make a difference?0 -
pedermj2002 wrote: »I think it becomes a bit more useful with a heart rate monitor, maybe. When I've used it on rides over an hour, the time has gone up markedly. I've seen it recommend 67 hours for me. For completeness sake, I've got a power meter and HRM connected, so maybe it's the combination that matters.
I think the recovery advisor always only looks at HRV data.
You probably know this already but it's telling you when you'll be back to 100 % in terms of your energy level. It's not telling you anything about when your legs will stop being sore.
On the bike, I usually just go by the rule of thumb that < 150 TSS means I can ride hard tomorrow. I have it set up to be able to show me my TSS while I ride.0 -
I use my FTP for training. It's useful for recovery purposes as explained above (because TSS = NP / FTP * duration). It's also a very direct and straightforward indicator of my fitness. Trying to see if I'm getting fitter or not using HR data is like reading tea leaves, but the only reason I'm capable of holding 20 more watts for an hour is that my fitness has improved, there's really no other way to interpret it.0
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Oooh, that would make more sense then, definitely. Good call!0
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I think I'll just sack the recovery advisor off and do what I've done for the past 3 years or more, since I got the power meter - as NorthCascades said, use the TSS as a guideline.
As to your question pedermj2002 - as my HrMax is "chemically limited" (beta blockers etc) to 145 (and that was achieved on a "test to falling over" at the hospital with a couple of cardioligists and a crash cart in attendence just in case) - and my hr zones are set in the garmin accordingly, from a RHR of 43, If I were to experience your numbers the only thing I'd be concerned with is how long the paramedics would take to get to me...
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On the recommendation of the Medics, I've actually got the garmin set up as follows...
with an alert set to bleep and flash if my HR gets into Z5. even at the top end of Z5 there's a few extra beats "grace" to cover the fact that I don't really want to be exerting myself any harder than 139 without being under medical supervision...
(without the chemicals, my HrMax 2 years ago was 183, and RHR was 49... At the moment I feel like I'm driving a "works van" with a governor on the engine - basically, I feel fit and strong, I just can't rev... it's a strange feeling, a little like being at altitude - you can feel your heart working really hard, breathing is laboured as hell, but there's not the amount of Oxygen getting into the muscles that you think should be...)
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As long as this has turned into a thread about the recovery advisor (and other things), it's worth pointing out that you're supposed to train as normal when the count down is <= 24 hours.
I find that it generally works pretty well, but I have this in my watch, so it knows about everything I do, not just cycling. And I still find other things like cumulative training load and just plain TSS work better.0 -
Today it gave me another 21 watts. The last auto-FTP happened on the first, just over two weeks ago.
This was a hilly ride, to run some errands. I was in a hurry. The odd thing is I ran a couple miles before heading out, it was a hard run and got my heart beating faster (185 bpm) than I've seen in years. It was a short run so not too much fatigue. Then I did 183 bpm up a hill on the bike.
If this is true, I'm almost as strong as I was before the accident.0
