sodium and water retention on LCHF
Options
2t9nty
Posts: 1,611 Member
My wife is doing LCHF with me, and she frequently has what I would call the "keto flu." I suggest more sodium and tell her I shoot for 4K to 5K mg figuring salt added to eggs, etc. is not showing up on MFP. I do things like have three servings of olives with lunch, and I add a teaspoon of Lite Salt to the gallon of fluids I drink every day.
Today it was so bad, she finally had some bouillon. I asked what her totals were on the food logging, and she said she was still not up to the 2300 that is the default.
She is worried that the increased sodium will show up on the scales with increased water weight, and this will be discouraging. I think the programming that sodium is bad is deeply seated.
Does anyone (female would have more credibility) have experience with this and can give me some words of assurance I can pass on? She has not experienced the weight loss with the LCHF that I have, and I wonder if the low sodium may be a factor too. As an additional data point, she is on thyroid meds and gets it monitored.
Today it was so bad, she finally had some bouillon. I asked what her totals were on the food logging, and she said she was still not up to the 2300 that is the default.
She is worried that the increased sodium will show up on the scales with increased water weight, and this will be discouraging. I think the programming that sodium is bad is deeply seated.
Does anyone (female would have more credibility) have experience with this and can give me some words of assurance I can pass on? She has not experienced the weight loss with the LCHF that I have, and I wonder if the low sodium may be a factor too. As an additional data point, she is on thyroid meds and gets it monitored.
0
Replies
-
She is more likely retaining water in an edited for her body to desperately hold onto the little sodium and potassium she does have.
And since she's showing symptoms of dehydration she NEEDS it. It's a dangerous thing she's doing in an effort to save a couple pounds from showing in the scale that aren't even fat.0 -
I like to save examples of people that make themselves sick requiring a hospital visit from the simple act of not taking the sodium seriously.
This was just a couple days ago.
Then most people commented how he needed electrolytes and he said he was taking potassium and magnesium and getting some salt but not measuring it. And he was drinking a lot of water which made it all worse without sodium. But he was only concentrating on the water part of hydration.
Finally he went to the hospital and low electrolytes were confirmed. Sodium... it's not optional.
3 -
I thought this was a nice article on https://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2013/04/16/Keto-flu-and-Sufficient-Intake-of-Electrolytes0
-
Additional article that adds even more reasons to up your salt I think may be helpful for your wife @2t9nty
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4546722/Salt-won-t-heart-attack-says-scientist.html
The part associated with weight loss is near the end, but I would recommend reading the entire article.0 -
I was like your wife I think. Whenever I had any salt or salty food before eating keto I would swell up to the point where I was very uncomfortable. I could barely close my hands it was so bad. I assumed it was the salt so I stayed away from my favorite salty foods like sausage, olives, feta and I would never salt my food. After eating keto I no longer swell at all after eating salt. I put it on everything and eat alot of foods high in salt. I log on average 3500 of salt a day. That does not include my chicken broth I drink daily or any extra I add to my food. What makes me swell is when I eat carbs. So it was the bread and rice that made me swell up! My mother has also noticed the same thing. I think your wife would feel much better if she up her intake.
0 -
She had a serving of olives with breakfast and I got us a can of sauerkraut for us to have with lunch. The programming is hard to reprogram. She has not reported problems today. I need to get her on an electrolyte drink like I have to keep the tank topped up.1
-
cstehansen wrote: »Additional article that adds even more reasons to up your salt I think may be helpful for your wife @2t9nty
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4546722/Salt-won-t-heart-attack-says-scientist.html
The part associated with weight loss is near the end, but I would recommend reading the entire article.
Good article - Thanks!0 -
Personal experience from a female who was raised in the era of "salt causes water retention". Also experienced it with puffy fingers.
Parts of 2013-2014: On BP meds for high blood pressure. Limited salt to less than 1500 mg per day. Also lost 60 pounds so eating low sodium does not inhibit weight loss in everyone as the article might suggest.
Parts of 2014-2016- continued to eat low sodium (though probably not as low as <1500 mg). Maintenance years. No change in weight. Usual +/- 1 or 2 pounds was on going. Normal fluctuations.
4/16-4/17: keto. Definite need for increased sodium to not feel keto crappy though I was never one to have an intake of "XX" per day. I am quite certain I ate more sodium than previously because I enjoyed foods like dill pickles, ham, shrimp, crab, olives, sauerkraut, hotdogs, cheese, kielbasa far more often than when eating a low sodium diet. I occasionally drank salty broth, chewed on a boullion cube or licked a quantity of sodium from the palm of my hand if I felt a little "off".
Throughout the keto year of increased sodium overall, I didn't note any abnormal fluctuations on the scale. Same +/- 1 to 2 pounds.
I hope your wife felt better after the salty broth and you are smart to quietly lead her towards saltier foods in the daily diet. I was highly reluctant to increase sodium due to BP history and "programming" but had no ill-effects from doing so.0 -
We are working on it. I gave her the executive summary of the two articles and she asked me to send them to her. She said she got over 4000 mg today due to the kraut and some olives to push her over the edge. She said she felt a lot better today.
If she is up on the scales tomorrow, I am in for it.2 -
I mean I know you're probably kidding a bit, but it's important to look at the overall trend, not day to day. You mention in your OP that she's not experienced the expected weight loss --- how long has she been at it, what's her weekly caloric deficit, how much did she weigh when she started and how much does she weigh now? Have other markers improved at all -- bloating, fit of clothes, mobility, energy, sleep, skin?If she is up on the scales tomorrow, I am in for it.
0 -
We are working on it. I gave her the executive summary of the two articles and she asked me to send them to her. She said she got over 4000 mg today due to the kraut and some olives to push her over the edge. She said she felt a lot better today.
If she is up on the scales tomorrow, I am in for it.
I really hope she can understand that maintaining proper sodium is waaaaaaay more important than a couple pounds of non fat scale weight.1 -
I would maybe discus how carbs cause higher insulin which causes us to hold onto electrolytes and retain water. When we cut carbs we lose electrolytes and water. With electrolytes being lost we are no longer at an adequate level of sodium. 3000-5000 mg per day is just to make sure we replace what we have lost.
If she is ignoring it, you might need to bring up that she is making herself sick. Basically on purpose... it almost seems like slightly disordered eating - feeling poorly to be smaller.
2 -
She has been at it mostly since January. It makes things easier since it is what I have been doing. I have encouraged taking measurements so there are plenty of metrics. I am T2D, so I have the glucose levels as affirmation. I have lost an inch and a half on my neck and seven inches on my waist, so if weight hits a plateau or bounces around a little, I have some other hard numbers to console me.
When I record weight, I use the highest number from the previous 7 days, and that evens things out a lot. I figure if you have not kept it off a week, it is not really gone. This removes some of the daily scale stuff.4 -
Hey! She's got to get the water and the sodium in! I've been keto for a year, lost 55lbs. It's harder to lose weight when I haven't been drinking and I definitely notice a difference when I dont get the sodium in. Easiest way for me is to make the "keto-ades" (recipe is in one of the sticky posts). Kills two birds haha. If I don't get enough I feel tired, lethargic, i get headaches. she can really make herself sick because you need those extra electrolytes on this diet!! Sodium is not bad!
Have her take measurements and also take her pictures. There was a 3 month period where I didn't lose a single pound, but my body was changing anyway. I had the pictures to look at to prove it.
I understand her wanting to see fast results but this is a lifestyle change, you have to think in the long term. No reason to rush it and make herself miserable. The fat WILL come off, she WILL have more energy, and feel better, less hungry, ect. But she has to do it right or she will be unhappy, sick, or end up in the hospital for low electrolytes.2 -
Yep! I can say that eating carbs turns on the sponge inside my hands and ankles making them swell terribly! I used to think this was from sodium, but how wrong I was! I will swell up, now, from not having enough sodium.
Hopefully she can reach a happy medium and change the brainwashing that's been done through the years! She will feel better for it! Good luck!1
