Crashed :(
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Retrofit55
Posts: 68 Member
Okay. This is going to be really hard to write because it means I'll be admitting to all of you who have been such encouraging cheerleaders that, IMMEDIATELY on the heels my earlier hardwon success, I've blown, blown, blown it big time. I'll spare you the ugly details except to say it was with two days of some ultra-high sugar carbs combined with highly processed wheat -- in the form of an old pastry nemesis -- that, good grief, I already KNOW spells disaster to this body.
So now I'm trying not to berate myself long enough to figure out exactly what I did/didn't do that led up to this sudden breach in my commitment to keto...a crash I really wasn't expecting until, blam!, it happened. I hope some of you can offer me ideas for the triggers I think I have identified.
I actually think the poor hydration and electrolyte imbalance(s) we've been talking about has played some role in the recent fail. I hope to fix this by getting some quart canning jars so I'll always have plenty of homemade keto bone broth on hand for quick nourishment. For that matter, is there anything wrong with just keeping my crockpot running on low for days/weeks, replenishing as necessary with water, bones, and other ingredients, as I consume the strained broth (at least 24 hours after adding any fresh bones & meat) while using a clean ladle each time I dip into it?
Further, I am sure that I have not been getting enough raw veggies in my diet. And that scares me because of the liver damage that can result from high dietary fat intake without sufficient accompanying phytonutrients to help the liver successfully process the fat out of the body. Until I get a handle on the raw veggie problem, do you think it would be "good enough for now" if I concentrated on eating above-ground veggies lightly sautéed in good fats and spices/herbs? Does baking/frying/microwaving completely destroy the nutritive value of vegetables for the purposes of fat burning? Can anyone point me to a keto cookbook with simple recipes that make it easier to get the healing vegetables we need?
Also, I find it so much easier to fast than eat keto and think I was too often opting to fast at the expense of the veggies I should have been getting during my brief keto feedings. With my neuromuscular issues, I found I was increasingly forgoing the (physically daunting) veggie preparation and cutting the keto feedings prematurely short, just so I could resume the labor-free fast. Neglecting my veggies was a mistake that I am sure played a huge role in my crash. And I want to fix it, or at least buy myself some time with cooked veggies (?) to keep myself from crashing again until I can find a way to routinely get enough raw vegetables (and even green smoothies, and lifting the blender to wash after smoothie prep, can be difficult for me, no matter how much a breeze it looks like in the keto videos).
Also, ironically, I'm having a hard time keeping the fat intake up to a level that provides satiety. Particularly while I'm trying to keep the protein down to a level that is acceptable for stage 3 renal failure (55-68 g protein/day). Right now, I'm so blown out of the water by all of these complex variables swimming around in my mind, and the recent disappointing fail, that the only fix I can picture is some half-cooked broccoli swimming around in bacon grease. I need simplicity to make this work!
Finally, I noticed that I was drifting away from faithfully logging my keto feeding macros as my intermittent fasting periods increased in frequency and length. I am trying to re-establish consistent AM and PM check ins with my food diary to make sure I have logged all intake, but I welcome any tips on ways you all have found that help you routinely log your macros in a timely fashion.
Like I said, I'm a mess, but if good keto nutrition will fix my multifold health messes, and I am convinced it will, I still dearly want to achieve it, even in the presence of my (hopefully temporary) physical impairments. Any ideas, Good People?
So now I'm trying not to berate myself long enough to figure out exactly what I did/didn't do that led up to this sudden breach in my commitment to keto...a crash I really wasn't expecting until, blam!, it happened. I hope some of you can offer me ideas for the triggers I think I have identified.
I actually think the poor hydration and electrolyte imbalance(s) we've been talking about has played some role in the recent fail. I hope to fix this by getting some quart canning jars so I'll always have plenty of homemade keto bone broth on hand for quick nourishment. For that matter, is there anything wrong with just keeping my crockpot running on low for days/weeks, replenishing as necessary with water, bones, and other ingredients, as I consume the strained broth (at least 24 hours after adding any fresh bones & meat) while using a clean ladle each time I dip into it?
Further, I am sure that I have not been getting enough raw veggies in my diet. And that scares me because of the liver damage that can result from high dietary fat intake without sufficient accompanying phytonutrients to help the liver successfully process the fat out of the body. Until I get a handle on the raw veggie problem, do you think it would be "good enough for now" if I concentrated on eating above-ground veggies lightly sautéed in good fats and spices/herbs? Does baking/frying/microwaving completely destroy the nutritive value of vegetables for the purposes of fat burning? Can anyone point me to a keto cookbook with simple recipes that make it easier to get the healing vegetables we need?
Also, I find it so much easier to fast than eat keto and think I was too often opting to fast at the expense of the veggies I should have been getting during my brief keto feedings. With my neuromuscular issues, I found I was increasingly forgoing the (physically daunting) veggie preparation and cutting the keto feedings prematurely short, just so I could resume the labor-free fast. Neglecting my veggies was a mistake that I am sure played a huge role in my crash. And I want to fix it, or at least buy myself some time with cooked veggies (?) to keep myself from crashing again until I can find a way to routinely get enough raw vegetables (and even green smoothies, and lifting the blender to wash after smoothie prep, can be difficult for me, no matter how much a breeze it looks like in the keto videos).
Also, ironically, I'm having a hard time keeping the fat intake up to a level that provides satiety. Particularly while I'm trying to keep the protein down to a level that is acceptable for stage 3 renal failure (55-68 g protein/day). Right now, I'm so blown out of the water by all of these complex variables swimming around in my mind, and the recent disappointing fail, that the only fix I can picture is some half-cooked broccoli swimming around in bacon grease. I need simplicity to make this work!
Finally, I noticed that I was drifting away from faithfully logging my keto feeding macros as my intermittent fasting periods increased in frequency and length. I am trying to re-establish consistent AM and PM check ins with my food diary to make sure I have logged all intake, but I welcome any tips on ways you all have found that help you routinely log your macros in a timely fashion.
Like I said, I'm a mess, but if good keto nutrition will fix my multifold health messes, and I am convinced it will, I still dearly want to achieve it, even in the presence of my (hopefully temporary) physical impairments. Any ideas, Good People?
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Replies
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It took me a year to keeping to Keto. I had to many emotional issues and food was my escape. I completely get it.
What worked for me... admitting I had the problem. Then, any time I binged, I took the time to figure out why without judging myself inadequate or unable to change. Once I figured out why, I could learn from it and start over.
I don't understand the need for raw vegetables, so I'll skip on trying to help for that one.
Keeping it simple helps to get started and on track. I literally had the same meals every day for 4 days and then I started changing it. Is it boring, yea, but it works and is easy. Besides, I was bored with my pre-Keto diet too.
Good luck
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My local stores have a variety of precut vegetables. I don't like the high price but given the inability to slice and dice that could work for you. I've seen the usual pepper/onion mix plus, broccoli, cauliflower, zucchini. Most stores have sliced carrots in a bag as well as baby carrots in a bag. Pre sliced mushrooms are usually available. We have a few stores with a salad bar too and it is loaded with precut vegetables. No need to cut baby spinach that I'm aware of. Our stores also have pre-shredded lettuce mixes as well as chopped collards or kale in a bag.
My simple answer to keeping fat intake up if that is what you need medically is cream cheese or mascarpone cheese both of which are lower in protein than most cheeses (since you have a health need to keep protein down). I wasn't into making fat bombs ( because I'd overeat them) but when I chose to keep fat high, I frequently ate coconut oil or MCT oil off a spoon just like medicine because that's what it was- medicine.
In regards to the pastries get it out of the house if possible. Fortunately my husband doesn't like sweets so there is none of that around to tempt me.2 -
I didn't really like the idea of fat bombs but I caved, I've been walking past a bunch of danish for three days now, I haven't caved but last night I made my first chocolate fat bombs. I need that extra fat to make sure I have the satiety to resist. They're like yummy little chocolates.1
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I say get keto adapted before you do the intermittent fasting. Go with something tried and true like bacon and eggs for breakfast if you like them. I would not obsess too much with the veggies. I like leafy greens, and the net carbs are low, so I can always have so turnip greens or something with supper.
I pretty much stayed focused on keeping the carbs under 20 at first, and then started watching the other macros and the calorie count. I had the great electrolyte awakening.
For hunger control, a cup of coffee with heavy whipping cream will do the job.1 -
You asked: "is there anything wrong with just keeping my crockpot running on low for days/weeks, replenishing as necessary with water, bones, and other ingredients ...."
I would think carefully about keeping a running batch of broth in a crock pot. By definition, slow cookers don't keep foods at a high enough temperature to ward off stray food pathogens. With chronic digestive issues to cope with, I'm always very concerned about food poisoning so I may be overly cautious in this respect. But, still, how about making large quantities of bone broth and freezing in single servings? I freeze things like that in quart sized ziplock bags, laid flat in the freezer until solid so they can be efficiently stored standing upright.4 -
First, my experience with food addiction is that it sneaks up on you & makes you betray yourself. In which case I hope you won't give yourself too much grief. You sound like you are on top of identifying reasons you were vulnerable to the carbs' siren song and that's really all you can do. You are in this for the long haul & 2 days off plan, while no doubt distressing, won't ruin it all. So hugs for that scare you gave yourself!!
I've not heard about or read any science on the necessity of raw veg to help the liver on a high fat diet, maybe someone else on here with more knowledge can offer more specific advice. But I know any kind of veg, raw or cooked, if your gut can tolerate it, is a good idea so go ahead & eat veg however.
I agree with the above health caution to make discreet batches of bone broth & freeze them rather than keep a slow cooker going continuously.
As for faithfully logging, I check in first thing in the morning & try to log ahead of the day, predicting what I'll be eating and readjusting after the fact to check that I got enough nutrients in my IF window before it closes.
Hang in there! Be kind to yourself. Over time I think you'll find solutions that work for your lifestyle & abilities.1 -
What about something like this? Would it help with prep?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FOI4324/
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XZZSFYL/
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HC7BNJA/2 -
Love kitchen gadgets and had that 1st one posted by knit. I used it frequently until the blades became dull. Even when sharp, things had to be cut into fairly small pieces before placing in the chopper. To me it was useful only for onions though it was awesome for that purpose. Carrots were too hard. Celery too stringy. Green peppers would cut only of placed skin side up or down, forget which way. I liked it though and wore it out!1
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There was a $100 one by Cuisinart or someone that seemed like a better long term deal, but I was going for cost. I'm sure folks with limited mobility would have sites recommending better options. I know a friend who has the chopping scissors she uses for her legally blind mother to make the food easier to eat... But I know my wrist pain flares up if I chop too much, whether with scissors or a knife...1
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Slips happen. I've been LCHF for a bit over 2 years. Mainly keto. I would say I am on the right track about 90% of the time. That looks good but it leaves a few weeks of eating the wrong foods for my health. I do consider it to be a victory when I don't let myself go too far.
For example, a slip for me prior to LCHF was a family sized bag of peanut m&m's. Now a slip is a tablespoon of of chocolate chips in nuts, or a small bowl of ice cream. And the slips don't last as long. I get back on track faster. Usually. LOL
It happened. It will probably happen again. Just move on quickly.
Retrofit55 wrote: »I actually think the poor hydration and electrolyte imbalance(s) we've been talking about has played some role in the recent fail. I hope to fix this by getting some quart canning jars so I'll always have plenty of homemade keto bone broth on hand for quick nourishment. For that matter, is there anything wrong with just keeping my crockpot running on low for days/weeks, replenishing as necessary with water, bones, and other ingredients, as I consume the strained broth (at least 24 hours after adding any fresh bones & meat) while using a clean ladle each time I dip into it?
How about using supplements or sodium tablets? That is a fairly exact way of bringing up electrolytes. Would that work with your health issues?
quote="Retrofit55;d-10567265"]Further, I am sure that I have not been getting enough raw veggies in my diet. And that scares me because of the liver damage that can result from high dietary fat intake without sufficient accompanying phytonutrients to help the liver successfully process the fat out of the body. Until I get a handle on the raw veggie problem, do you think it would be "good enough for now" if I concentrated on eating above-ground veggies lightly sautéed in good fats and spices/herbs? Does baking/frying/microwaving completely destroy the nutritive value of vegetables for the purposes of fat burning? Can anyone point me to a keto cookbook with simple recipes that make it easier to get the healing vegetables we need? [/quote]
I don't understand your veggie need either. Is that related to your kidney problem?
People don't need any veggies. They can be very good for you but much of the benefits of phytonutrients (and fibre) have to do with plant digestion. If you limit plant intake I believe there is less of a need for plants.
I could be wrong. And I am probably biased. I've been following a mainly carnivorous diet, and eat almost no vegetables, because I feel better doing it. I have a few autoimmune diseases, and some fairly advanced arthritis, that improves by a lot when I skip carbs.Retrofit55 wrote: »Also, ironically, I'm having a hard time keeping the fat intake up to a level that provides satiety. Particularly while I'm trying to keep the protein down to a level that is acceptable for stage 3 renal failure (55-68 g protein/day). Right now, I'm so blown out of the water by all of these complex variables swimming around in my mind, and the recent disappointing fail, that the only fix I can picture is some half-cooked broccoli swimming around in bacon grease. I need simplicity to make this work!
Adding butter, salad dressings, oils, cheese, nuts and seeds to your foods may help.
Bullet proof coffee or chia tea is a really easy way to add more fat to your diet, if it is to your tastes.
Congrats on getting right back to it! That's hard to do. 2 -
Retrofit55 wrote: »Okay. This is going to be really hard to write because it means I'll be admitting to all of you who have been such encouraging cheerleaders that, IMMEDIATELY on the heels my earlier hardwon success, I've blown, blown, blown it big time.
Welcome to the world of two steps forward and one step back. Sometimes it's lots of steps forward, but for most of us, at some point, there ends up being a one-step back. You could've just said, "forget it," but instead you reached out to the rest of us. Your post is encouraging because we've all struggled here and there. The important thing is to not give up. I admire you for trying to do something positive about your health issues! I'm doing keto for health reasons too, and I was comforted to see that there are others here walking the same path. Hang in there and see this as a learning experience. {{HUGS}}
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The verdict is out and highly divided regarding nutritional value for plant foodss. Yes I know "essential fatty acids", "essential amino acids" and no such thing as "essential carbohydrates".
I was up late last night reading about value in plant food sources. Some of that came from keto "experts". I went down a rabbit hole of new research regarding need for prebiotics (vegetables/fiber) in the general population and then into a deeper rabbit hole regarding prebiotic need for those with neurological disorders.
I can safely say that while there are researchers who are pro and con, the vast majority will say there is NEW information every day and much to be learned.4 -
There is no sense in rumination or judgement. The past is merely memory. All you really have is the next decision. Simply begin again.5
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mandycat223 wrote: »You asked: "is there anything wrong with just keeping my crockpot running on low for days/weeks, replenishing as necessary with water, bones, and other ingredients ...."
I would think carefully about keeping a running batch of broth in a crock pot. By definition, slow cookers don't keep foods at a high enough temperature to ward off stray food pathogens. With chronic digestive issues to cope with, I'm always very concerned about food poisoning so I may be overly cautious in this respect. But, still, how about making large quantities of bone broth and freezing in single servings? I freeze things like that in quart sized ziplock bags, laid flat in the freezer until solid so they can be efficiently stored standing upright.
No, I think it's fine.
Because the food isn't in there long enough for pathogens to build. If it's hot and cooking, it gets eaten. What's more it's at a constantly high enough temperature to ward off problems like bacteria.
It can be done.
I found this...
and this...Perpetual stew or Hunter's pot
And finally....
As a final comment, my grandmother herself had a perpetual broth pot on the go. Over an open fire. At night, she would take the pot off its hook, and sit it on the fire embers.
It would still be hot in the morning, when she would hang it back up and put in the fire again.
Sometimes, she would transfer the pot to a cast-iron stove, and that thing would roar....1 -
food_lover16 wrote: »It took me a year to keeping to Keto. I had to many emotional issues and food was my escape. I completely get it.
What worked for me... admitting I had the problem. Then, any time I binged, I took the time to figure out why without judging myself inadequate or unable to change. Once I figured out why, I could learn from it and start over.
I don't understand the need for raw vegetables, so I'll skip on trying to help for that one.
Keeping it simple helps to get started and on track. I literally had the same meals every day for 4 days and then I started changing it. Is it boring, yea, but it works and is easy. Besides, I was bored with my pre-Keto diet too.
Good luck
You know, food_lover16, simplifying with identical meals for four days at a time might help a lot. All I'll need to do is get my macros, nutrition and satiety right for those four days. I'm feeling less overwhelmed by all of the dietary "parameters" (including those imposed by various medical conditions) just thinking about it. And, like you, I'll take four days of boring if it's easy and works, especially here at the beginning. Thanks for the suggestion!1 -
mandycat223 wrote: »You asked: "is there anything wrong with just keeping my crockpot running on low for days/weeks, replenishing as necessary with water, bones, and other ingredients ...."
I would think carefully about keeping a running batch of broth in a crock pot. By definition, slow cookers don't keep foods at a high enough temperature to ward off stray food pathogens. With chronic digestive issues to cope with, I'm always very concerned about food poisoning so I may be overly cautious in this respect. But, still, how about making large quantities of bone broth and freezing in single servings? I freeze things like that in quart sized ziplock bags, laid flat in the freezer until solid so they can be efficiently stored standing upright.
Yes, my fear of food contamination was the only thing stopping me from trying it. But I remember stories of the constant soup pots some women used to keep running, apparently without killing every member of the family, so wondered if it might actually be safe/feasible. I would rather my bone broth not kill me, of course, but, boy, a constant crockpot bone broth would make my life so much easier. For now, though, I'll stick with my ziplocks.
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My local stores have a variety of precut vegetables. I don't like the high price but given the inability to slice and dice that could work for you. I've seen the usual pepper/onion mix plus, broccoli, cauliflower, zucchini. Most stores have sliced carrots in a bag as well as baby carrots in a bag. Pre sliced mushrooms are usually available. We have a few stores with a salad bar too and it is loaded with precut vegetables. No need to cut baby spinach that I'm aware of. Our stores also have pre-shredded lettuce mixes as well as chopped collards or kale in a bag.
My simple answer to keeping fat intake up if that is what you need medically is cream cheese or mascarpone cheese both of which are lower in protein than most cheeses (since you have a health need to keep protein down). I wasn't into making fat bombs ( because I'd overeat them) but when I chose to keep fat high, I frequently ate coconut oil or MCT oil off a spoon just like medicine because that's what it was- medicine.
In regards to the pastries get it out of the house if possible. Fortunately my husband doesn't like sweets so there is none of that around to tempt me.
Good ideas. I had been avoiding the bagged, cut veggies in favor of individual whole, but since that's not working for me, I'm going to change my shopping patterns and go for the pre-washed, pre-cut. I can justify the expense because of the $$ (and angst) I save not having to throw out beautiful veggies that have gone bad just because I haven't had the strength to prepare them.1 -
LizinLowell wrote: »First, my experience with food addiction is that it sneaks up on you & makes you betray yourself. In which case I hope you won't give yourself too much grief. You sound like you are on top of identifying reasons you were vulnerable to the carbs' siren song and that's really all you can do. You are in this for the long haul & 2 days off plan, while no doubt distressing, won't ruin it all. So hugs for that scare you gave yourself!!
I've not heard about or read any science on the necessity of raw veg to help the liver on a high fat diet, maybe someone else on here with more knowledge can offer more specific advice. But I know any kind of veg, raw or cooked, if your gut can tolerate it, is a good idea so go ahead & eat veg however.
I agree with the above health caution to make discreet batches of bone broth & freeze them rather than keep a slow cooker going continuously.
As for faithfully logging, I check in first thing in the morning & try to log ahead of the day, predicting what I'll be eating and readjusting after the fact to check that I got enough nutrients in my IF window before it closes.
Hang in there! Be kind to yourself. Over time I think you'll find solutions that work for your lifestyle & abilities.
This is great. Combining your suggestion with food_lover16's, I'm going to log my meals in blocks, four days ahead, and then adjust them as I go. I'm really excited about this. It feels right.
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »What about something like this? Would it help with prep?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FOI4324/
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XZZSFYL/
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HC7BNJA/
Thanks! I'm trying to buy one inexpensive labor-saving device a month and think at least one of these items belong on my Wish List. Thanks for the research!
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Retrofit55 wrote: »mandycat223 wrote: »You asked: "is there anything wrong with just keeping my crockpot running on low for days/weeks, replenishing as necessary with water, bones, and other ingredients ...."
I would think carefully about keeping a running batch of broth in a crock pot. By definition, slow cookers don't keep foods at a high enough temperature to ward off stray food pathogens. With chronic digestive issues to cope with, I'm always very concerned about food poisoning so I may be overly cautious in this respect. But, still, how about making large quantities of bone broth and freezing in single servings? I freeze things like that in quart sized ziplock bags, laid flat in the freezer until solid so they can be efficiently stored standing upright.
Yes, my fear of food contamination was the only thing stopping me from trying it. But I remember stories of the constant soup pots some women used to keep running, apparently without killing every member of the family, so wondered if it might actually be safe/feasible. I would rather my bone broth not kill me, of course, but, boy, a constant crockpot bone broth would make my life so much easier. For now, though, I'll stick with my ziplocks.
Did you read my post?
It's safe, if you follow the guidelines! 1
