Ketosis affect on Thyroid, explained in a way I could understand it.

Replies

  • KnitOrMiss
    KnitOrMiss Posts: 10,104 Member
    That pretty much sums up what happened to me. Except, despite a length of time longer than he mentions with compliance, and I didn't regulate out. But, AFTER that time of not leveling back out, I addressed nutrient deficiencies I hadn't know about prior. In fact, my current PCP has suggested that we might adjust my medications going into keto to prevent the initial drop in function and allow it to level out, adjusting back down or further up as needed. I'm seeing a new Endo now, and should get lab results (officially! I've already seen them, and she didn't run the comprehensive list - no RT3, no B12, D3, Iron, etc. - so I'm expecting more labs requested) next week...

    At the higher carb levels, I simply have no real craving control the way I do on full keto... Looking forward to getting the official go ahead to dive back in.
  • 1thankful_momma
    1thankful_momma Posts: 298 Member
    @KnitOrMiss I know that you have done a lot of work on thyroid data, do you think this link should be considered for the open thread reference? I found it to be very informative and wish I saw it earlier.
    Granted, I have to figure out how it works for me since I have no thyroid gland, but my body still has to do the conversion of t4 to t3 and I did have hasi's as well (still confused on if I should say that I still do since I don't have a thyroid but I still have the antibodies since we track the antibodies for cancer reoccurrence since the other test isn't reliable because I have the antibodies)
  • KnitOrMiss
    KnitOrMiss Posts: 10,104 Member
    Definitely this should be linked...

    And if you still have antibodies, you still have an autoimmune condition. Period. Your Hashi's resulted in surgical or medicinal neutralizing of your thyroid organ, but you are still a sufferer. You still have the risks, I imagine, or continuing to eat soy, grains/gluten, etc., do you not?

    I'll have to think on the whole thing some more as to how it relates to you - but seems to me it would still be similar - that you'd require more T3 medication since your body's ability to convert thyroid hormone (primarily in the gut, to my understand) is significantly impaired, etc., if it still works at all...

    I want to go read/watch the rest of the series...

    Thanks again for sharing. We all learn/absorb/understand different aspects and different approaches. What clicks for one person may not even register for another, and vice versa...all perspectives and explanations should be prevalent and shared!
  • Sunny_Bunny_
    Sunny_Bunny_ Posts: 7,141 Member
    I haven't looked at that link but I don't have a lot of faith on Doc Muscles due to his explanation that T2D turns into T1D just because of insulin use and how he swears you can't overeat fat. Oh yes you can! Lol

    But I'm sure he gets lots of stuff right too.
  • 1thankful_momma
    1thankful_momma Posts: 298 Member
    @baconslave when you get back, will you please put this in open threads? It is important for those with thyroid issues to be aware that the transition period into ketosis does have an affect on thyroid.

    I also found this article the talks about how leptins can be the cause of autoimmune issues http://www.wellnessresources.com/health/articles/elevated_leptin_causes_autoimmune_thyroid_disorders_hashimotos_and_graves/

    There seems to be some growing research on how carbs affects thyroid function... and therefore keto/low-carb can be a source of resolution for some people with these issues.
  • KnitOrMiss
    KnitOrMiss Posts: 10,104 Member
    I messaged the link to her yesterday, as "tags" get lost sometimes...

    I keep reminding myself that there aren't tests for all these things, and that correlation is not causality. In other words that just because things show up together doesn't mean one caused the other specifically without independent testing, etc.

    So I just keep reading, researching, swimming (ala Dory), so I'll read these articles too. :)

    Honestly, I don't need to point a finger at the cause, myself... I just need a long term plan, without huge steps backward, the help remediate the problem... You know what i mean?
  • 1thankful_momma
    1thankful_momma Posts: 298 Member
    seems like a lot of studies that were done that show 'ketosis is bad for thyroid' do not do it long enough to be fat adapted. I will not ever get my thyroid levels checked during a time frame of at least a month to 6 weeks of starting Keto.
    I also find it interesting that lowered t3 levels indicates a muscle saving mechanism on calorie restrictive diets.
    http://cristivlad.com/thyroid-hormone-levels-and-very-low-carb-ketogenic-nutrition/
  • 1thankful_momma
    1thankful_momma Posts: 298 Member
  • 1thankful_momma
    1thankful_momma Posts: 298 Member
    edited June 2017
    KnitOrMiss wrote: »
    Honestly, I don't need to point a finger at the cause, myself... I just need a long term plan, without huge steps backward, the help remediate the problem... You know what i mean?

    yep. I just had a friend say 'Keto isn't good for hypothyroid people' the other day. I had no idea what she was talking about because it works for me... and having no thyroid at all makes me as hypo as you can get. :wink:

    I really think that there hasn't been enough research for them to say it is bad and like Phinney suggests, there has been proven evidence that it is good for other endocrine systems, it is most likely good for the thyroid too.
  • KnitOrMiss
    KnitOrMiss Posts: 10,104 Member
    My own history, I did keto for 18 months, give or take, with only a few minor blips. Every time I locked down and did back to basics - 2-3 months after, a TSH test showed it skyrocketing. I did get fat adapted, especially before my first real glitch, almost a year in. I was 20-30 grams of carbs for 10-11 months, and even a minor slip didn't affect me much, right back into NK after. But my levels didn't really seem to level out at any point. But I don't remember hey, these 2 weeks I struggled, those 3 months, I was strict every day, etc. so it's really hard to follow my exact dietary compliance completely.

    I can say I went from fully carb-loaded SAD to low carb (aiming for 50 or so) on 1/15/15. On 2/18/15, I went keto. In October 2014, my TSH had been 1.64 while my fasting insulin had gone down from 9 (in May) to 7.6 (in October).

    6 months later, in April, after 1 month low carb, 2 months keto, my TSH went up to 2.699, and my FI went down to 7.1. Buckled down again in July (digestive issues - had to change up specifics of what I was eating), and in October my number was TSH 3.979 while FI went down to 5.8 (I stopped Metformin in May, I think).

    Rebooted again February 2016 (finally started digestive enzymes), and in April 2016, TSH went down to 2.04, FI up to 15 (bad week), and down to 9.9 in May, as a follow up.

    Up down, up down like a darned yo-yo. Somewhere in February maybe, I started in on mincronutrients I'd been missing, etc., too...
  • Italiana_xx79
    Italiana_xx79 Posts: 567 Member
    Thank you for sharing the link with us :)
  • canadjineh
    canadjineh Posts: 5,375 Member
    I've got to check this link out when I get back to my full-on desktop computer.....Also I got a very interesting email from a functional doc I'm following that I'll add in this thread.
  • KnitOrMiss
    KnitOrMiss Posts: 10,104 Member
    @canadjineh - Excited for the email!!! I wish I could afford a functional doc. I'm about at the end of my rope, sadly.
  • canadjineh
    canadjineh Posts: 5,375 Member
    edited July 2017
    @KnitOrMiss His interesting post that I'm referring to is on Hypothalamic Obesity Disorder - if you have been treating low thyroid but not getting improvements it could be this. Site is here: restarted.com/hypothalamic-obesity-disorder/
    I need to look up more info on it but too busy with work right now. Dr Westin Childs, functional med doc specializing in thyroid issues.
  • bluets2011
    bluets2011 Posts: 241 Member
    I was about to start reading on the topic. I have hashimotos and saw more than once that keto is not good. But after a life struggling with my yoyoing weight, mood disorders, period issues etc I was ready to give it a go. Started in mfp 27 April 2017. And following keto from May 20th since I Lost 17.7lbs (13 to go), energy is much better, mental clarity too. I take liothyronine (T3) only so not sure it makes a difference. But I don't see myself going back to my old way of eating. I used to be vegan, then vegetarian and now pescatarian and this suits me.
  • canadjineh
    canadjineh Posts: 5,375 Member
    edited July 2017
    I think in this thread we may have to differentiate between Keto, ZC, and Lo-Carb. It might make a difference in thyroid. Just my 2 cents, tho.

    BTW, @KnitOrMiss, I didn't actually mean you personally in my last post, I probably should have used the more correct (yet unwieldy) 'one' instead of a generic group 'you.' :s
  • StacyChrz
    StacyChrz Posts: 865 Member
    I was diagnosed with Hypothyroid at 8 years old, I am now 41 and taking 200 mcg of Synthroid. I have been fortunate throughout my life that when I have made an effort to eat reasonably and exercise I have been able to lose weight. I do believe I have to work a little harder at it to see results but not to a vast degree. I've been back on Keto since April 26th with 2 planned indulgences. I don't use test strips but I am confident based on how I feel that I am at least in NK and likely fat adapted. I will be having a full thyroid panel drawn tomorrow. I can't wait to see what my numbers look like. I had TSH and T4 drawn in mid May and we lowered my Synthroid at that time. I am losing weight steadily, sleeping great and feeling healthy and clear headed. More to follow!!
  • StacyChrz
    StacyChrz Posts: 865 Member
    And the results are in!
    My A1C is 5.3 - awesome after going on a binge from September till Mid-April and being back in the woe April-June.
    My TSH is still low at 0.08, everything else is in the green.
    My Doc is thrilled with my weight loss in the past 2 months and wants to leave my synthoid where it is for now. We'll retest again in 3 months.
  • KnitOrMiss
    KnitOrMiss Posts: 10,104 Member
    Your TSH is in range if you feel good. Optimal TSH is said to be 0.5 to 1.5. Make sure they are doing a Free and Reverse T3 on you. Many times, after a certain point, we struggle to convert the T4 to T3, giving is the appearance of improving numbers, while we still feel bad and actually need some T3... I felt better with both T4 and T3, but have recently switched to NDT. My most recent visit, a new practitioner that I'm evaluating practically begged/threatened me to go back to synthetics, as "it's easier for us to adjust in small increments instead of chunks. 0.5 is a small change in the TSH, and we need to make small adjustments." Yeah, no... Every single visit I had to adjust my meds... It was exhausting.