One week on Keto WOE, just a few questions...
dawnz75
Posts: 579 Member
Greetings! I have spent 4 to 5 hours in this group studying and the LCD group and have now completed one week of a ketosis diet. My parameters have been around 90g protein, 15 to 20g carbs, and fat to satiety. My calories have been set at 1500 since January, but I have been around 1300 this last week. I have lost about 40lbs utilizing CICO, but went into a carb frenzy in June with busy, stressful issues. This has been a great week. Keeping sodium to 4 to 5 k daily and keeping hydrated has prevented much of keto flu. Lite salt for extra potassium. I have been keeping track of a list of questions this week. If anyone has a minute and any insight into the answers I would love to learn more about this WOE.
Sugar – I get 2 g of sugar/carb a day from beef broth (I have not had the time or energy to make it homemade yet) and 2 g of sugar/carb from half and half in my black tea. Also a couple g of sugar/carbs from various meat products (ie pepperoni). The rest of my sugars are from veggies, which I am less concerned about. I am still in the beginning phase, are these normal ranges that should not hinder my progress to FA?
Timing- With sugar should I worry about consuming sugar/carbs by themselves. ie. A late night cup of tea or broth. Is it better to combine the carbs with protein/fats when consumed? On a similar note, I have been spreading out my sodium through the day, treating it as a kind of medicine for my body. Are there any repercussions if you take your sodium in big amounts, like 2.5k twice daily? Or is it better to spread it out? I also like to snack, but are 3 solid meals better?
Loose Stool- (for lack of a better term) Irritated bowls are my only keto flu symptom this week. I have been keeping my carb level really strict, 15 to 20g total (10 to 15 net). Today I upped my carb level to 35g with a goal of net carbs at 20g or lower. I found I have not been eating as much veggies as I would have in order to keep my numbers lower this week. I THINK I will add extra carbs (the 35g- 20g net mentioned above) with the intent of upping veggies. I am hoping that will help with the above dilemma?
Nuts- I have been reading eat nuts, don’t eat nuts in the induction phase. Any thoughts? I just added almonds back in for the past couple of days.
Reflection of positives this week- Dropped my calories to 1400, just being full on less calories a day! That rarely happened on CICO, SAD diet. (Don’t worry still getting 1250 min) My hunger has been low. I am having to assess, am I actually hungry? I was always wanting to eat at meal times before keto. Was able to have bake sale for theatre group- 3 days of baking, 6 doz brownies, 8 doz cookies, root beer floats… being around all those foods and smells and realizing I would like to eat them, but I was really not craving any of them was a really awesome milestone. I have learned a lot from many of you here. Thank you for your support and this great community. I am posting this in 2 groups, not sure which one has the most traffic.
Sugar – I get 2 g of sugar/carb a day from beef broth (I have not had the time or energy to make it homemade yet) and 2 g of sugar/carb from half and half in my black tea. Also a couple g of sugar/carbs from various meat products (ie pepperoni). The rest of my sugars are from veggies, which I am less concerned about. I am still in the beginning phase, are these normal ranges that should not hinder my progress to FA?
Timing- With sugar should I worry about consuming sugar/carbs by themselves. ie. A late night cup of tea or broth. Is it better to combine the carbs with protein/fats when consumed? On a similar note, I have been spreading out my sodium through the day, treating it as a kind of medicine for my body. Are there any repercussions if you take your sodium in big amounts, like 2.5k twice daily? Or is it better to spread it out? I also like to snack, but are 3 solid meals better?
Loose Stool- (for lack of a better term) Irritated bowls are my only keto flu symptom this week. I have been keeping my carb level really strict, 15 to 20g total (10 to 15 net). Today I upped my carb level to 35g with a goal of net carbs at 20g or lower. I found I have not been eating as much veggies as I would have in order to keep my numbers lower this week. I THINK I will add extra carbs (the 35g- 20g net mentioned above) with the intent of upping veggies. I am hoping that will help with the above dilemma?
Nuts- I have been reading eat nuts, don’t eat nuts in the induction phase. Any thoughts? I just added almonds back in for the past couple of days.
Reflection of positives this week- Dropped my calories to 1400, just being full on less calories a day! That rarely happened on CICO, SAD diet. (Don’t worry still getting 1250 min) My hunger has been low. I am having to assess, am I actually hungry? I was always wanting to eat at meal times before keto. Was able to have bake sale for theatre group- 3 days of baking, 6 doz brownies, 8 doz cookies, root beer floats… being around all those foods and smells and realizing I would like to eat them, but I was really not craving any of them was a really awesome milestone. I have learned a lot from many of you here. Thank you for your support and this great community. I am posting this in 2 groups, not sure which one has the most traffic.
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Replies
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Sorry nobody answered you.
I have posted in other places that it takes about three weeks for you to switch from sugar burning to fat burning.
You should take your weight in three phases. Use a BMI chart to set the weight you are striving for. If you are over 30 bmi, then 30 is your first goal. Take your height, go horizontal (over) to the 30 column and go straight up (vertical) to get the weight. Determine how many calories maintains that weight. Use that as your goal calories. Never eat more than that. When you get close to that weight, then reset your goal to 25 bmi. Get the maintenance calories for your new goal. Again, when you get close, reset to 20 bmi.
My sister set her calorie goal at the maintenance for 20 bmi and just pushed through it. That is what I am doing also.
Using the ideal calorie level and keto, you should be able to eliminate hunger and shed the pound.
If you get hungry, eat protein like eggs or meat. If you are close to your calorie limit, keep it down to 200 calories or less. Drink tea. Ice tea and hot tea fill the stomach. Plus people mistake thirst for hunger.
As for the keto macros, I get my levels from:
http://www.mydreamshape.com/keto-calculator/
for bowel problems: use food grade diatomaceous earth (fgde). It is very inexpensive and very healing. I take one tablespoon nightly I add a little water to make a slurry and eliminate chunks. Then enough water to drink it. FGDE will take the toxins out of your digestive tract. It works for constipation and diarrhea. If it is a bathroom issue, FGDE will fix it.3 -
Greetings! I have spent 4 to 5 hours in this group studying and the LCD group and have now completed one week of a ketosis diet. My parameters have been around 90g protein, 15 to 20g carbs, and fat to satiety. My calories have been set at 1500 since January, but I have been around 1300 this last week. I have lost about 40lbs utilizing CICO, but went into a carb frenzy in June with busy, stressful issues. This has been a great week. Keeping sodium to 4 to 5 k daily and keeping hydrated has prevented much of keto flu. Lite salt for extra potassium. I have been keeping track of a list of questions this week. If anyone has a minute and any insight into the answers I would love to learn more about this WOE.
Sugar – I get 2 g of sugar/carb a day from beef broth (I have not had the time or energy to make it homemade yet) and 2 g of sugar/carb from half and half in my black tea. Also a couple g of sugar/carbs from various meat products (ie pepperoni). The rest of my sugars are from veggies, which I am less concerned about. I am still in the beginning phase, are these normal ranges that should not hinder my progress to FA?
@dawnz75 - Congrats on doing so well for the first week or two so far... As far as sugar, getting a little bit in products isn't a huge concern unless you are eating massive amounts of those. However, many times you can actually find different brands or formulas without the carbs, if it is worth it. And I agree, veggie carbs (other than potatoes/corn/peas/etc.) don't hit me the same way as others... As long as you keep those in awareness, I don't see an issue with it. FA can come slowly or quicker, and there are a million factors in that. Keeping actual added sugars down helps the most, I think.Timing- With sugar should I worry about consuming sugar/carbs by themselves. ie. A late night cup of tea or broth. Is it better to combine the carbs with protein/fats when consumed? On a similar note, I have been spreading out my sodium through the day, treating it as a kind of medicine for my body. Are there any repercussions if you take your sodium in big amounts, like 2.5k twice daily? Or is it better to spread it out? I also like to snack, but are 3 solid meals better?
Tea or broth, I wouldn't worry about. However, if you're having something you know is higher in carbs, it can help to pair it with a fat or protein. But it's really very individual. I've heard it said that eating pasta for breakfast while getting 25% of your meal's calories from MCT Oil is more ketogenic than just restricting carbs... (Chris Masterjohn PhD)
As far as sodium, you absolutely don't want to have the sodium in large amounts, all at once or even only twice in the day. It can cause extreme loose stool...violently, etc. If you are curious, you can look up salt enema or things like that. It's better to have it over the course of the day as you need it/use it/dump it.
As far as snacking, your body needs a break from digestion, etc. You should eat only when hungry, if possible, not when craving something or needing a pick me up. As you become fat adapted, you will naturally find more time between meals to either occur or be able to engineer it to happen, without much issue. If you find yourself still desiring a snack, you likely need to increase your meal, either in calories or in fats. It is said that if you eat and are hungry again in less than 4 hours, that food or combination of foods is not satiating for you - or it isn't good for your blood sugar levels, insulin resistance, etc. Some people do better with intermittent fasting, some people do better with 2 or 3 meals a day, and some people do better including a snack or two... If what you are doing is working for you, there is no real need to change anything until it doesn't work for you anymore - or you get some sort of lab results telling you that how you seem to do with it is hiding a less than awesome response elsewhere, etc.Loose Stool- (for lack of a better term) Irritated bowls are my only keto flu symptom this week. I have been keeping my carb level really strict, 15 to 20g total (10 to 15 net). Today I upped my carb level to 35g with a goal of net carbs at 20g or lower. I found I have not been eating as much veggies as I would have in order to keep my numbers lower this week. I THINK I will add extra carbs (the 35g- 20g net mentioned above) with the intent of upping veggies. I am hoping that will help with the above dilemma?
Loose stools can be caused by so many things. This article helped me to get to the root of mine (low stomach acid due to no gallbladder) ... http://nobunplease.com/diarrhea-low-carb-keto-diet/
More veggie only carbs may help ... or it may not. But the overall goal of Keto is to find your individual upper carb threshold. If you notice more cravings or loss of keto benefits, you might want to go lower again for a while, but long term, you might even be able to go up to 50 total, 35 or so net, as long as you get adapted and such.Nuts- I have been reading eat nuts, don’t eat nuts in the induction phase. Any thoughts? I just added almonds back in for the past couple of days.
Nuts for me were a tool when I couldn't eat regular food for a while (traveling, working outdoors, etc.), but not a regular item. They do create cravings in some folks. Eating them raw can cause digestive issues. If they work for you and consuming only a single portion isn't a big issue, you're probably okay. Again, this is very individual. For some folks, nuts are the key to long term success. For others, they're the think that causes failure...Reflection of positives this week- Dropped my calories to 1400, just being full on less calories a day! That rarely happened on CICO, SAD diet. (Don’t worry still getting 1250 min) My hunger has been low. I am having to assess, am I actually hungry? I was always wanting to eat at meal times before keto. Was able to have bake sale for theatre group- 3 days of baking, 6 doz brownies, 8 doz cookies, root beer floats… being around all those foods and smells and realizing I would like to eat them, but I was really not craving any of them was a really awesome milestone. I have learned a lot from many of you here. Thank you for your support and this great community. I am posting this in 2 groups, not sure which one has the most traffic.
Those are some great successes. Good luck as you continue on. I'm sorry for the delay in my response, as I don't have much connection opportunity on weekends/holidays.
Feel free to respond if you have other specific questions.6 -
A big thanks to 62Apples and KnitorMiss for their insightful responses. I appreciate you both taking the time. Day 9 and I think this is a great WOE for me to continue out at least the summer, actually I was thinking how great this would be to have in place for over the Halloween to Christmas stretch... I have no intention of stopping, just will start individualizing what works for me. I am seriously not hungry, like a little maybe I should eat, but not the craving or need to feed. My only challenge has been switching to meals instead of snacks. It will come, so glad for this place of support!3
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The not being hungry bit will come and go, sometimes in phases, sometimes day to day. Enjoy it while it lasts, because the hunger will return and have natural ebbs and flows. Starting to plan a low carb holiday now by experimenting with various low carb options can make for an amazing success later. I know some folks who have made almond bread based stuffing, cauliflower mash instead of potatoes, and many, many other things. Also, by then, you'll be well adapted, so a single meal here or there (once a week or month) of slightly higher numbers will not be the iceberg to sink you... Just have a planned end to any indulgence and jump right back to plan!2
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@dawnz75, the info above is excellent and I really can't add to it except this: you are doing a really fantastic job getting a strong start on a ketogenic lifestyle. Congrats, girl!!
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Feeling much better over all. Working still on eliminating snacks. The reason to eliminate snacks is that they spike insulin? I was thinking a couple pieces of lunchmeat over a small pickle, or a hard boiled egg As a snack? If the snack is protein/fat based, would it still be a concern? Sometimes I was thinking pepperoni for a little hike in sodium between meals. I am not hungry, trying to get enough calories and not eat all my sodium at the same time. I also usually enjoy a cup of black tea with half and half between meals, been trying to drink it with meals this last week. Thanks for anyone who happens to see this and takes the time to offer advice.0
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Your whole body needs a break from digestion, too. That is why fasting has so much benefits. You can take in sodium without causing the digestive process to start. Plus, if you are low on natural bile production, the more you eat, the less you have available for real meals if it overdoses on a snack, etc. When insulin is released/processing, your body STOPS BURNING FAT. The two don't coexist. I'd rather burn fat...
Sodium can be taken like a pill or even put into a capsule rather than eating extra calories and such in pepperoni.
@FIT_Goat can give a more science based answer.2 -
Awesome, I will continue in my endeavors to eat in 3 meals a day. I think my baby step will be one cup of tea outside those parameters for now. I am sure it will get to be a habit, just will take some planning to get myself on board. Thanks for the common sense KnitOrMiss.1
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Your body still needs insulin for uptake if amino acids not just glucose.
Every time you eat you're supplying exogenous energy. You will not use any/much endogenous energy, your body fat, if you eat every couple hours.
And you need more sodium than you can get from just food.
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Great diagram. It really puts into perspective the benefits of IF. Which I am not doing atm. But that does motivate me to have larger meals and stop the 100 calorie snacks between. Thank you both for the great input.1
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Miss Dawn, I looked at your food diary and if your feeling good you're most likely getting plenty of sodium (averaging ~4000+mg/day) from your food and the little bit of "supplementing" you're doing with broth (which is food to me). And the couple days you added .25 tsp of lite-salt.
The foods I eat are different than the foods you eat and most of mine don't have much sodium in them so I find myself having to intentionally lick a quarter to half teaspoon of salt off the palm of my hand or chomp on a boullion cube to keep my sodium where it needs to be especially on hot days when I walk outside. I had a couple of "salt licks" today because I worked in the garden and took a 45 minute walk this evening after it "cooled down" to about 88 degrees LOL (about 31C).
I think your doing GREAT! You've asked some pertinent questions and created good discussion.
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Thanks kpk54! A lot of the foods I eat at the moment are high sodium. I realize that I might not want to eat them everyday forever, but it was easy to make them a priority for the first 2 weeks. I need to decide on some good quality salt because the idea of a "salt lick" seems like a great solution for long term. Then I would not feel like i needed to include a cup of broth as part if my breakfast! But feeling good has motivated me to keep the sodium coming on strong. My goal is 4500 daily and I usually get close to that. I can relate to the heat, supposed "cool down" to 103 today. This last weekend it was pushing 110. I drink more water so been mindful of more sodium than I normally would.4
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You seem like you're on a good path @dawnz75. Nothing wrong with the foods you eat especially when starting out and because you like them. I'm old and semi-retired. LOL. I have plenty of time on my hands to plan, shop for groceries and cook with few distractions in life. It makes a difference!
Actually working in the sodium throughout the day as you do is not a bad idea and I am guessing probably what most people do. I've always eaten with a "whole food" approach simply because that's what I was raised with way back in the 1950s and 60s. Problem was somewhere along the way I started eating lots of other stuff too and lots of it! I forgot that we eat to nourish our bodies not for entertainment, comfort, boredom and all that stuff. It's a process. You'll learn a lot about your habits. You probably already have. 1 -
You seem to have a really solid start on your journey with your choices and knowledge.
I think you should do very well 1 -
3 1/2 weeks already. The summer is flying by. My greatest challenge is getting in sodium now that I have switched to 3 meals a day with no snacks. That transition was one if the hardest parts for me, just habit, not because I am overly hungry. I think it would help to drink a cup or 2 of broth at non meals times. Will the less than 1g of carb affect my insulin levels? I am weighing being in fat loss mode longer verses getting all my sodium in for the day. Today was 3700 and I try for 4500 to 5k. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks!1
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3 1/2 weeks already. The summer is flying by. My greatest challenge is getting in sodium now that I have switched to 3 meals a day with no snacks. That transition was one if the hardest parts for me, just habit, not because I am overly hungry. I think it would help to drink a cup or 2 of broth at non meals times. Will the less than 1g of carb affect my insulin levels? I am weighing being in fat loss mode longer verses getting all my sodium in for the day. Today was 3700 and I try for 4500 to 5k. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks!
I'm not sure... Dr Bernstein says that anything that creates stomach expansion causes an insulin release.
Just as another option, you can also take sodium chloride tablets available usually from the pharmacy. At Walgreens I've had to ask the pharmacist for them because they keep them back there. I buy those for my dad because it's easier for him. Personally I just swallow coarse salt as if it's a large pinch of tiny pills whenever I feel the need.0 -
Thanks. I will look into the sodium pill form. Have a great weekend.1
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I personally prefer using Sea Salt crystals over the sodium chloride pills. Some people don't absorb the pills well - and it can actually make the dehydration worse- and start with only one at a time, for sure...can cause you to need the bathroom, urgently.1
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Some won't care for my comment but if you feel fine on 3700 mg of sodium what need is there to increase it to hit a specific higher number? I clearly understand the need for increased sodium (for most people) when eating very low carb but I think of sodium in the same terms as others think of fat...no need to force feed to hit a magical number. Find what works for you.
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Beginners question: I've been doing a fairly strict keto diet for three weeks, or so. I use JustFitter Ketone test strips, carefully abiding by the instructions. Today I measured in the "moderate" zone of around 4.0 mmol/L. In searching online, I'm finding that this may well be too high. For example, according to "The Art and Science of Low-Carbohydrate Living," nutritional ketosis is defined by serum ketones ranging from 0.5 to 3.0 mM. Thoughts? Do I need to pull back, introduce more healthy carbs? Clearly, I want to avoid a Ketoacidosis situation!0
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@luvguini - Those numbers of "being too high" is based on blood ketones, not urine strips. Urine concentrations are affected dramatically by hydration, so as long as you're getting any color at all, you're producing ketones.
You cannot get Ketoacidosis unless you are a Type 1 Diabetic or a Type 2 Diabetic who no longer produces insulin. If your body makes ANY insulin, it is impossible for you to get Diabetic Ketoacidosis. Those warnings are generally a "so we can't be sued" type of thing...
Sounds like you are rocking and rolling...1 -
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Beginners question: I've been doing a fairly strict keto diet for three weeks, or so. I use JustFitter Ketone test strips, carefully abiding by the instructions. Today I measured in the "moderate" zone of around 4.0 mmol/L. In searching online, I'm finding that this may well be too high. For example, according to "The Art and Science of Low-Carbohydrate Living," nutritional ketosis is defined by serum ketones ranging from 0.5 to 3.0 mM. Thoughts? Do I need to pull back, introduce more healthy carbs? Clearly, I want to avoid a Ketoacidosis situation!
If you are not a Type 1 Diabetic it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to get ketoacidosis. The fact that your body makes insulin prevents it. Furthermore, it is much more than just sorta high ketones. It's very very high ketones combined with very high blood sugar that progresses long enough due to no insulin until severe dehydration and low blood ph occur.
Let me assure you, that it does not just sneak up on a T1D. It is an incredibly painful condition that makes forming coherent sentences incredibly challenging. I'm unfortunately very familiar with it. As a matter of fact my daughter was just released from ICU 2 days ago.... she had a blood sugar of 520 on admission due to using insulin that had become inactive from heat exposure. She was vomiting and could barely hold herself upright. Do you have those kinds of symptoms?
You are comparing blood ketones to urine ketones... they are not the same. Also, blood ketones get up past 10-15 in DKA. They call it DIABETIC KETOACIDOSIS for a reason.
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I apologize for not having read the responses sooner -- *thank you*, Knit and Sunny, for your articulate and helpful responses. Blood ketones vs. urine ketones, apples and oranges. Slowly I'll catch on as I read more. Again thank you, and Sunny Bunny, there's nothing worse than seeing our kids sick -- and in the hospital, no less. I hope your daughter is on the mend!
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