@Sunny_Bunny_, can you explain that chart above?

So you eat at the calorie amount it would take to maintain your current weight (TDEE) and still lose weight? How long have you been doing this and how much weight have you lost? How did you determine your 1700 TDEE?

hesterific wrote: »

My TDEE is 1700 (20C/60P/155F) and if I under eat or create a deficit I stall. As long as I fast or feast I lose like crazy. Consuming less calories slows your basal metabolism. I follow a page where they did an experiment to see if they could eat unlimited fat and still lose weight. 3500cals and they lost weight.

@hesterific Your TDEE of 1700: is that your TDEE at your current weight? Or is your TDEE 1700 at your goal weight? If not too personal, how much of a difference is there between your current weight and your goal weight?

I'm asking because I've always thought it would be a reasonable approach to lose weight at the amount of calories for maintenance TDEE. It would be a lesser deficit over time but I'd still lose, just more slowly. I've been maintaining (~goal) for ~3.5 years so it is not currently relevant to me.

I guess my next question is: if you are currently eating at your TDEE for you actual current weight (and not your goal weight) and are losing weight, what is your next step when you reach goal weight?

OK. I'll just go with the idea that as you are losing weight, you are reducing calories in order to continue to lose. Correct? Your additional information of "recalculating every 10 pounds" means you are periodically readjusting calories down. Down being the operative word there. Calories are being adjusted downward overall as you continue to lose. Correct?

I could argue/debate that the calories you are eating are neither MAINTENANCE TDEE nor MAINTENANCE calories because you are not maintaining, but rather you are losing and continuing to lose with each continued adjustment. I am in the camp of one has to be in a deficit in order to lose weight and your continued reduction of calories creates a continued deficit...in my mind.

BUT what is in my mind really DOESN"T MATTER. What I call it or you call it. Maintenance calories or deficit calories. What matters is you are losing unwanted weight. It is good you have also found that dropping the Torani, detrose, etc has had a positive impact on your weight loss. I never seemed to have problem with them (lost fine while using them) but I have read where many folks are very negatively effected by them in regards to weight management.

And when you say above that when you reach your desired weight you will (likely) "add more healthy carbs from veggies and up your protein"...you mean substitute/replace some of the calories from fat with these carbs and protein calories versus add more calories of veggie carbs and proteins. Because you will be eating at a calorie amount to maintain your goal weight. Correct?

This is an interesting angle. Are you suggesting that I am not a 5'3" 41 yr old female who doesn't exercise? I am not at a caloric deficit, I eat 1700 calories, 155g are fat. We are not in the same camp, caloric deficits cause the body to save and stall. We will have to agree to disagree, my friend. If this wasn't working for me I would certainly entertain your ideas but I have seen too many people stalled in their journeys, experiencing hair loss or other secondary system failures, looking for help. Ketogenic Success on fb is a wonderful group. "Absolutely, post your macros." Stalled user then posts macros, admin responds, "Your calories are far too low. If you do not up your calories you body will continue to hold on to everything. Up your calories, report back." Sure enough it's usually the issue. Sometimes it's nuts or dairy but usually it's because people have reduced their basal metabolism by starving their systems.
If I wanted to have a calorie restricted diet, I might as well join Weight Watchers. Same loss in the beginning, same stall and feelings of failure to follow.
Awesome back and forth today, thank you!

I'm not sure why differing opinions opens the door for aggressive challenges, as I said if this wasn't working for me I would entertain your suggestion. Maybe I can just leave this here for you to read?
https://www.ketovangelist.com/the-calorie-hypothesis/

DianaElena76 wrote: »

@Sunny_Bunny_, can you explain that chart above?

As I understand it the chart shows the ratio of protein to other macros in grams you want to aim for depending on your goal.
So if fat loss is your goal you want to eat a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio of protein to everything else.

Now, that’s not to say that you wouldn’t do great with slightly less protein and more fat but the basic idea this is representing is that you want to adjust your fat and carb intake to suit your goal. Protein is less of a variable as far as weight loss or gain goes. It’s not a good energy source. Your body would burn body fat before it would start burning protein for energy so you can generally eat more calories if they are mostly protein and not so much fat or carbs.

The PSMF part of the chart is generally a very short term and quite low calorie crash diet. Meant for only a few days with maintenance level eating other days.
It also shows examples of actual foods that naturally contain the ratios explained for each section as reference.

Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »

As far as the calorie discussion goes. It all comes down to fat flux.
Weather you’re in fat influx or fat efflux. You can call it calories or magic moonbeams but it’s the flux that matters.
Without any doubt, if a person is losing fat mass they are in fat efflux. More fat is leaving the cells than is being re-esterified back into the cells.
Of course fat isn’t the only thing we can lose that will create scale weight loss and a smaller appearance. I personally believe I lost a decent amount of muscle when I first went keto.
But anyway, if you truly want to understand what creates fat loss you will want to study this.
http://eatingacademy.com/weight-loss/how-to-make-a-fat-cell-less-not-thin-the-lessons-of-fat-flux

Thanks for sharing this. I enjoy Dr. Attia's blog. As I read it, it's his assertion in this blog post that some people in ketosis can lose weight (fat) without creating a deficit, but I think he believes this to be a smaller proportion of people, while more people need to create a deficit (presumably from reducing intake of dietary fat) in order to lose weight/fat.

For me personally, I find I need to create a deficit in order to lose, which I do by reducing grams of fat consumed (while keeping my carbs under 20 grams and my protein at 60 grams). It's what works for me. I think everyone has to find the right balance for them as an individual through some amount of trial.

Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »

DianaElena76 wrote: »

@Sunny_Bunny_, can you explain that chart above?

As I understand it the chart shows the ratio of protein to other macros in grams you want to aim for depending on your goal.
So if fat loss is your goal you want to eat a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio of protein to everything else.

Now, that’s not to say that you wouldn’t do great with slightly less protein and more fat but the basic idea this is representing is that you want to adjust your fat and carb intake to suit your goal. Protein is less of a variable as far as weight loss or gain goes. It’s not a good energy source. Your body would burn body fat before it would start burning protein for energy so you can generally eat more calories if they are mostly protein and not so much fat or carbs.

The PSMF part of the chart is generally a very short term and quite low calorie crash diet. Meant for only a few days with maintenance level eating other days.
It also shows examples of actual foods that naturally contain the ratios explained for each section as reference.

Thank you!