Do we have a list of Reliable and Unreliable sources?
tmoneyag99
Posts: 480 Member
So I went through found some reading material and what not but there are SO many sources on the internet regarding How to do Keto or LCHF dieting. There is so much conflicting information too. Even here for example. Some people count calories some people don't. Some people check for ketosis some people don't.
Naturally I *try* to do my own research outside of this forum but it's getting more and more difficult to sort through it all.
So can we get a list of reliable LCHF gurus to listen to or ignore? Note people promoting Keto/LCHF Lifestyle only. But some have better info than others and so they can provide better advice. Some people may promote it but still put out myths about the proper approach to the diet. Clearly, listening to
If you'll name your people I'll add them to this list and maybe someone can post it in the info link.
Sources to refrence:
Lyle Mcdonald
Mark Sisson
Sources To avoid:
Naturally I *try* to do my own research outside of this forum but it's getting more and more difficult to sort through it all.
So can we get a list of reliable LCHF gurus to listen to or ignore? Note people promoting Keto/LCHF Lifestyle only. But some have better info than others and so they can provide better advice. Some people may promote it but still put out myths about the proper approach to the diet. Clearly, listening to
If you'll name your people I'll add them to this list and maybe someone can post it in the info link.
Sources to refrence:
Lyle Mcdonald
Mark Sisson
Sources To avoid:
0
Replies
-
To Reference:
Jeff Volek
Stephen Phinney
Eric Westman
Jason Fung
Maria Emmerich1 -
What about to avoid. Example Dr. Eric Berg has many youtube videos and warns against eating too much protien. I'd love to know who the keto charlatans are.
Avoid:
Tim Ferris.
He's a smart guy but he's not not not an expert. He has an MBA and as a degree in East Asian Studies from Princeton University in 2000.He worked in sales at a data storage company.... NOT AN EXPERT and should not be advising people on Diet. His "Slow Carb" Ideas are no different than GI diets and Southbeach.0 -
To be fair, though, Slow Carb diets work for some people, so this is completely viable as a resource for the Low Carb lifestyle.
If you check back in the description of this group, it covers everything from zero carb/carnivores to Nutritional Ketosis (for medical reasons) to a standard low carb dietary range (50-100 grams a day) on up to 150 grams of carbs, or really, restricting any type of carb at all. This is an all encompassing group.
Just as there are a large number of people for whom various things work, and others on whom the same strategies do not work, I cannot rule out completely most specific resources.
For example, while certain parts of Dr. Berg's protocols of using less protein may work for kidney patients, they may not work for other less challenged patients. His protocols for D3/K2 for bone health are excellent.
Low carbing is very N=1, and it generally requires a lot of individual experimenting to determine where you fall in the spectrum.
Perhaps you like one person's IF protocol, but another person's macros breakdown, someone else's nutrient supplementation protocols, another person's bread swaps, yet another person's sweetener recommendations, someone's exercise protocols, etc.
To me, that doesn't make any of the aspects that don't work for you WRONG - or the ones that do work for you RIGHT...
Plus, medical knowledge is always learning new and more important things, such as how much better not restricting protein can be for many keto followers, and so on...
K2 is relatively new, even to Functional Medicine, and traditional practioners are even further behind on the timetable...
And so, I think you're going to get a lot of personal opinion on this post, because no version of Keto is one size fits all...7 -
In fact, in my experience, you'll find the earlier teachings/posts from some Gurus to vary quite a lot from their current teachings. Leanne Vogel of Healthful Pursuit is one of those. She used to do a number of things herself that she has now, over the last 5 years, of personal experimentation, determined that some things work better, some don't really work at all, some are meh, and others are excellent.
She is sharing her personal experiences, combined with professional education she studied/was instructed along the way. So to some, she would be less expert... To others, she would fit another's personality perfectly...
You can probably get a list of favorites, and those who folks don't like much, but I'd bet a lot of money that those names can switch lists from person to person...3 -
I agree with @KnitOrMiss.
If you take the name Volek who is well respected in the LC/Keto world and throw him into an anti keto performance arena, he'd get torn up one side and down the other. The same is true for Fung. He is loved by many in the "fasting world" but elsewhere, some people think he's a fool.
You know..."...Legit or FOS"?
If you're looking for generally favorable, knowledgeable folks in the low carb/ keto world read some of these books in the link below. I happen to like Dr. Ron Rosedale but bet half the people here think he is FO poo. The thing is, half of what he says may be out in left field but certainly all of it isn't. As Dr. Phinney might ask, "But, which half"? Context always matters.
Here ya go. Open the link and scroll down. The vast majority of these low carb authors have many followers. At least in low carb circles. But you'll never get everyone to agree which one is right or "the best"
https://unlearn-rethink.com/2017/08/01/the-rabbit-hole-essential-reading-nutrition-edition/
Or watch this series on youtube by Dr. Eric Westman, another well respected guy. Watch a bunch of them and see how often he says (in this question and answer series), "Well I don't know". And the reason he says that is because what works for one, doesn't work for everyone. I love this guy. He could not make things more simple so far as I'm concerned. He's had thousands of keto weight loss clients and certainly knows that one size does not fit all. Lots of people have lots of medical issues. For example: should someone on cumadin or warfarin be eating lots of leafy greens? Or should someone on blood pressure medication be upping their sodium intake? In both cases (in the series) he pretty much says...."It depends. Follow up with your PCP".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWgBiTLTta0
5 -
Tim Ferris is a Sales Man. He is notorious for taking old knowledge and repackaging it. Therefore he is not a reliable diet source hence why I listed him. I read his book "4hr work week" It's basically high level Business School concepts packaged for the individual. He bounces from one hot thing to the next. Read up on him. HE does not need to be an actual resource on nutriton. It's not his expertiese.
Slow Carb diets are not new. It's essentially the same thing as the Glycemic Index diet and South Beach. He's just repackaged some old knowledge that actual doctors discovered and wrote about.
I'm not denying the validity of the Theory behind Slow Carb. I'm denying the expertise of Tim Ferris who claims "90% of people should be on a Slow Carb Diet" Don't believe me go watch his video about keto diet.
My post wasn't saying that other woe was wrong BUT the point of this post was to identify the individuals that were the most well locked in on the LCHF/Keto diets. Slow Carb, GI, and South Beach don't fit that profile. Diets such as the Glycemic Index and South Beach existed long before the idea of slow carbs. But they aren't necessarially "low" carb high fat.
I looked at that link and that's a lot of different people that i haven't seen or heard anyone talk about. Furthermore that is a huge list. And I've read Primal Blue Print and I like Mark Sisson but he isn't Keto or LCHF.
That list also doesn't tell you who the misinformed quacks are.0 -
Plus you'll have to forgive me but earlier we had a huge conversation about how "you can't eat too much protein" but Dr. Berg (one of the individuals on the reading list) says that eating too much protien can throw you out of ketosis.
Tim Ferris states that if you don't get ketosis precisely right it's a horrible diet for you.
So which is it. Do we listen to these experts or not? Does anyone else not see how all these contradictions are so confusing?1 -
Depends.... it's an n=1 as has been stated before. I totally understand why one might be confused. Read some stuff, try some stuff (one change at a time), check your results.
Repeat
BTW, one doesn't need to be in ketosis to lose weight, if that is their low carb aim. Ketosis is good for other things though.3 -
tmoneyag99 wrote: »Plus you'll have to forgive me but earlier we had a huge conversation about how "you can't eat too much protein" but Dr. Berg (one of the individuals on the reading list) says that eating too much protien can throw you out of ketosis.
Tim Ferris states that if you don't get ketosis precisely right it's a horrible diet for you.
So which is it. Do we listen to these experts or not? Does anyone else not see how all these contradictions are so confusing?
I don't know the context of his statement but I would say that if you are on the border of ketosis and keep jumping in and out AND fail to correctly control your electrolytes you probably will feel horrible and it won't be a good diet strategy for you. Over the years I've been here I've seen this happen to people several times.
So I think what it "is" is that we do our research and then try the strategies that makes sense to us and monitor our own results and adjust from there because what works for me might not work for you or anyone else.
2 -
canadjineh wrote: »Depends.... it's an n=1 as has been stated before. I totally understand why one might be confused. Read some stuff, try some stuff (one change at a time), check your results.
Repeat
BTW, one doesn't need to be in ketosis to lose weight, if that is their low carb aim. Ketosis is good for other things though.
Yep. Keep reading. The more you know the more you realize how much there is that you still need to know, and how much more there is that isn't set in stone.
Too many variables for absolute certainty.tmoneyag99 wrote: »Plus you'll have to forgive me but earlier we had a huge conversation about how "you can't eat too much protein" but Dr. Berg (one of the individuals on the reading list) says that eating too much protien can throw you out of ketosis.
Tim Ferris states that if you don't get ketosis precisely right it's a horrible diet for you.
So which is it. Do we listen to these experts or not? Does anyone else not see how all these contradictions are so confusing?
Yes, it's confusing. Dr. Berg is wrong about that. I personally don't listen to his videos. If you don't believe the protein proponents, then go research protein and muscle loss during weight loss. I know Anubis has posted links in other threads.
Here's the crux of the problem: Every single one of us here is an individual, with different DNA, different medical history/issues, different psychological tendencies, different reasons for being here. We aren't all here for weightloss. Some came to low-carb for help with diabetes management, some came here for therapy for another medical issue, some are here to maintain, and yep, some weight loss, too. We are each and every a n=1. Given the disparate reasons for us coming together, not all "experts" tenets are going to address everyone's needs. And not every approach is going to work best for everyone. And frankly, not every "expert" is going to be 100% right all the time. You may just want to read studies. Though keto hasn't been researched like other aspects of weight loss so there isn't as much to draw upon.
Regarding experts, Fung for example. I hate fasting sooooo much. I'm the Witchiest Witch that ever Witched when I even try. But it works really well for some people. Lots of people say he's FOS. I don't know about his science. He's a nephrologist who now clinically treats people using fasting protocols for diabetes management among other things, IIRC. What I do know that many people find that following his protocols works well to achieve consistent calorie deficit for people. This tool works well for them. Not my cuppa for sure. But if losing weight improves health, and if it works for someone...
After all, this is how low-carb diets work:
^^This is about as close to "absolute truth" as you are going to get. And even then someone is going to find something to nitpick...
We have to be really careful in labeling people "good" and "bad." This could easily turn into a witch hunt. So I'm not going to tell people what to do. We are a "roll your own" group here. None of us should tell any other what to do.
What certainly can be done is that we can post which speakers or authors we have found to be the most helpful and why and state which aspect of low-carb benefits it addresses. We can post research we've read and it's implications. People can state if they disagree and why. And if we manage to remain civil and keep the thread ultra-awesome and informative, then I'll put it in Open Threads. That way, as we have always tried to do, the information is there for people to make an educated choice. Some posters in this thread have already done so.
If you are wanting definitive resources, in addition to the mention of Phinney and Volek, who are a must read, we have some links already posted in the LaunchPad, plus the wealth of links and discussion posted in the collection of Open Threads. Along with this thread, no one can say the info isn't there. But there are ALWAYS going to be people who are misinformed who need corrected, and ALWAYS those who'd rather follow some "keto-cult" or facebook guru because they don't want to do their own research. Or just plain don't know how to research or where to start. Not everyone was a librarian like I was, and I try to remember that.
Our group is here to support and guide people. As it has been since 2015, I believe, under these current Group Leaders.
We have low-carb in common.
We aren't going to tolerate misinformation here, but frankly, I've gotta take the aerial view. We can't be about alienating anyone in the process.
So eat enough protein if you don't have kidney disease, mmmmkay! Pretty please with Truvia on top!
And if you are stalling, count your calories!
8 -
I also like:
Peter Attia
Ivor Cummings
Mary Newport
Richard Bernstein
Terry Wahls
Dom D'Agostino
David Feldman and his n=1 on cholesterol
Nina Teicholz (Big Fat Surprise)
Sarah Halberg
I also like these ones, but I don't agree with everything they say:
Gary Taubes (Good Calories Bad Calories.... I'm not a big fan of his new book)
Marty Kendall (@ Optimizing Nutrition)
Sam Feltham and his 5000 kcal diet experiments at Smash the Fat
Fathead
I'm not a huge fan of Jimmy Moore but sometimes he has a gem.4 -
hahaha, @baconslave:
Ex-Librarians of the world, UNITE! My first real job was as a library page at 15.Not everyone was a librarian like I was, and I try to remember that.
1 -
@canadjineh
I'm such a dork.
I miss libraries sooooo much.
I shelf-read when I'm looking for a book for the kids.
One day...5 -
canadjineh wrote: »hahaha, @baconslave:
Ex-Librarians of the world, UNITE! My first real job was as a library page at 15.Not everyone was a librarian like I was, and I try to remember that.
My work study job at college was library assistant. At one point I almost decided to major in LS, but kept getting side tracked by anthropology classes so ended up with a BS in that area instead.1 -
I got in trouble a couple times for shelf reading while I was reshelving books, lol. So many books, so little time....
1
This discussion has been closed.