Marathon Training Plans
TavistockToad
Posts: 35,719 Member
Afternoon pals!
So after half jokingly saying to my running buddy that i want to do a marathon next year, she hasn't said no... and she's asked for some training plans to look at.
A quick google and Hal Higdon novice 2 looks ok, but what plans do people recommend??
My running back ground is 2 years of non consistent running with a couple of races and 2 years of consistent running with 3 races last year (2 half marathons, 1 10k) and 4 races this year (2 half marathons, a train 7 mile and a 10k). i run up to Half Marathon distance, and i know that my weekly mileage is woefully low for a full currently, so would need to work on that before i started a training plan. i currently run 3/4 x a week, cross train 1/2 x and strength train 2 x.
my running buddy has been running a lot longer than me, but her current mileage is lower than mine at the moment but she has done a lot more half marathons than me, so we'd be after something novice to intermediate.
thanks in advance
So after half jokingly saying to my running buddy that i want to do a marathon next year, she hasn't said no... and she's asked for some training plans to look at.
A quick google and Hal Higdon novice 2 looks ok, but what plans do people recommend??
My running back ground is 2 years of non consistent running with a couple of races and 2 years of consistent running with 3 races last year (2 half marathons, 1 10k) and 4 races this year (2 half marathons, a train 7 mile and a 10k). i run up to Half Marathon distance, and i know that my weekly mileage is woefully low for a full currently, so would need to work on that before i started a training plan. i currently run 3/4 x a week, cross train 1/2 x and strength train 2 x.
my running buddy has been running a lot longer than me, but her current mileage is lower than mine at the moment but she has done a lot more half marathons than me, so we'd be after something novice to intermediate.
thanks in advance
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Replies
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The Hal Higdon plans have worked for me, and seem highly recommended by others, as well.2
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Hal Higdon plans are great for a first marathon. I am not sure how much difference there is between the novice 1 and 2 plans. My suggestion would be to choose the plan that offers you the most weekly mileage that you think you can handle without getting hurt. I know this is vague advice, but the there is a fine line between adequate training and over training. On one hand, maximizing your training mileage is going to give you the easiest time on race day. On the other hand, doing more than you are ready for will result in burnout or injury. For a first marathon, I would choose more miles over speed work. And also make sure that you are comfortable with the initial mileage. If you are stretching yourself to make the miles in the first few weeks of the plan, then it is probably too advanced. Your goal for your first marathon should just be to finish. There will be plenty of chances to improve on your time in the future. Good luck!1
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lporter229 wrote: »Hal Higdon plans are great for a first marathon. I am not sure how much difference there is between the novice 1 and 2 plans. My suggestion would be to choose the plan that offers you the most weekly mileage that you think you can handle without getting hurt. I know this is vague advice, but the there is a fine line between adequate training and over training. On one hand, maximizing your training mileage is going to give you the easiest time on race day. On the other hand, doing more than you are ready for will result in burnout or injury. For a first marathon, I would choose more miles over speed work. And also make sure that you are comfortable with the initial mileage. If you are stretching yourself to make the miles in the first few weeks of the plan, then it is probably too advanced. Your goal for your first marathon should just be to finish. There will be plenty of chances to improve on your time in the future. Good luck!
Currently I could do week 4 of the hal higdon novice plans easily, which is comforting to know!2 -
TavistockToad wrote: »lporter229 wrote: »Hal Higdon plans are great for a first marathon. I am not sure how much difference there is between the novice 1 and 2 plans. My suggestion would be to choose the plan that offers you the most weekly mileage that you think you can handle without getting hurt. I know this is vague advice, but the there is a fine line between adequate training and over training. On one hand, maximizing your training mileage is going to give you the easiest time on race day. On the other hand, doing more than you are ready for will result in burnout or injury. For a first marathon, I would choose more miles over speed work. And also make sure that you are comfortable with the initial mileage. If you are stretching yourself to make the miles in the first few weeks of the plan, then it is probably too advanced. Your goal for your first marathon should just be to finish. There will be plenty of chances to improve on your time in the future. Good luck!
Currently I could do week 4 of the hal higdon novice plans easily, which is comforting to know!
Then I would say you should be good to go with that plan! Sounds like you have a solid foundation of running so if you follow your training schedule, you should have nothing to worry about.0 -
If you have time to build your base before starting MRT, you might consider one of Higdon's intermediate plans. I did Intermediate 2 for my first marathon, because my base at the time was 30+ mpw. I didn't want to go backwards, and knew, from years of reading online forums, that more miles would make the race go better. I did great, both in the training and in that first marathon. Since you've already done some HMs, starting at 30 mpw shouldn't be a jump for you.0
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spiriteagle99 wrote: »If you have time to build your base before starting MRT, you might consider one of Higdon's intermediate plans. I did Intermediate 2 for my first marathon, because my base at the time was 30+ mpw. I didn't want to go backwards, and knew, from years of reading online forums, that more miles would make the race go better. I did great, both in the training and in that first marathon. Since you've already done some HMs, starting at 30 mpw shouldn't be a jump for you.
My max mileage is around 20 mpw at the mo, so it is a bit of a jump. Which is one of the things that concerns me!0 -
On Hal Higdon's site, he has good descriptions of each plan and who it's for. I went through all of the descriptions and decided which was best for me, but also printed out the easier plan as a backup if it got to be too much.2
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TavistockToad wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »If you have time to build your base before starting MRT, you might consider one of Higdon's intermediate plans. I did Intermediate 2 for my first marathon, because my base at the time was 30+ mpw. I didn't want to go backwards, and knew, from years of reading online forums, that more miles would make the race go better. I did great, both in the training and in that first marathon. Since you've already done some HMs, starting at 30 mpw shouldn't be a jump for you.
My max mileage is around 20 mpw at the mo, so it is a bit of a jump. Which is one of the things that concerns me!
It depends on which marathon you plan to do. If you are doing a race in March, you don't have time to build your base much before starting a plan. If you aren't doing one until October, you have plenty of time.0 -
spiriteagle99 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »If you have time to build your base before starting MRT, you might consider one of Higdon's intermediate plans. I did Intermediate 2 for my first marathon, because my base at the time was 30+ mpw. I didn't want to go backwards, and knew, from years of reading online forums, that more miles would make the race go better. I did great, both in the training and in that first marathon. Since you've already done some HMs, starting at 30 mpw shouldn't be a jump for you.
My max mileage is around 20 mpw at the mo, so it is a bit of a jump. Which is one of the things that concerns me!
It depends on which marathon you plan to do. If you are doing a race in March, you don't have time to build your base much before starting a plan. If you aren't doing one until October, you have plenty of time.
September/October probably.
I have a half in May already payed for.0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »If you have time to build your base before starting MRT, you might consider one of Higdon's intermediate plans. I did Intermediate 2 for my first marathon, because my base at the time was 30+ mpw. I didn't want to go backwards, and knew, from years of reading online forums, that more miles would make the race go better. I did great, both in the training and in that first marathon. Since you've already done some HMs, starting at 30 mpw shouldn't be a jump for you.
My max mileage is around 20 mpw at the mo, so it is a bit of a jump. Which is one of the things that concerns me!
It depends on which marathon you plan to do. If you are doing a race in March, you don't have time to build your base much before starting a plan. If you aren't doing one until October, you have plenty of time.
September/October probably.
I have a half in May already payed for.
Well . . . if you build base for a marathon between now and the half, and get to where a long run of 16 miles or so is routine, you'll be in pretty good shape to train for a fall marathon. That, and when a 16 mile long run is routine, a half marathon race isn't nearly as big a deal as it was when your longest run was 13 miles.0 -
So between now and your HM, you can easily build your base from 20 mpw to 30-35. There's plenty of time for that. Then you start an intermediate level marathon plan that starts at 35 mpw and builds to a peak of 50 mpw.0
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TavistockToad wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »If you have time to build your base before starting MRT, you might consider one of Higdon's intermediate plans. I did Intermediate 2 for my first marathon, because my base at the time was 30+ mpw. I didn't want to go backwards, and knew, from years of reading online forums, that more miles would make the race go better. I did great, both in the training and in that first marathon. Since you've already done some HMs, starting at 30 mpw shouldn't be a jump for you.
My max mileage is around 20 mpw at the mo, so it is a bit of a jump. Which is one of the things that concerns me!
It depends on which marathon you plan to do. If you are doing a race in March, you don't have time to build your base much before starting a plan. If you aren't doing one until October, you have plenty of time.
September/October probably.
I have a half in May already payed for.
Well . . . if you build base for a marathon between now and the half, and get to where a long run of 16 miles or so is routine, you'll be in pretty good shape to train for a fall marathon. That, and when a 16 mile long run is routine, a half marathon race isn't nearly as big a deal as it was when your longest run was 13 miles.spiriteagle99 wrote: »So between now and your HM, you can easily build your base from 20 mpw to 30-35. There's plenty of time for that. Then you start an intermediate level marathon plan that starts at 35 mpw and builds to a peak of 50 mpw.
you mean i need to run over winter... what was never part of the plan!!!! :laugh: :laugh:
thanks for all the input so far everyone... i am meeting my running buddy for lunch in a couple of weeks and i will see if she is actually seriously up for doing it - as i would like to be signed up for something at new year so i can plan it properly.0 -
I’m going to probably do the novice 2 plan next year. I’m currently at 30 mpw, and could probably do intermediate 1, but don’t want to hurt myself by overdoing it1
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Just a quick update....
:noway: :bigsmile:
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Good luck!0
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Just booked the hotel for the night before the race.... new pants please!!!!
who's idea was this!?
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »Just booked the hotel for the night before the race.... new pants please!!!!
who's idea was this!?
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Entirely yours
and you told us all about it so you can't back out now!
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i've paid for it, i have absolutely no intention of backing out!4
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Thought i would resurrect this thread for another question!
I haven't started training for my marathon yet, but i have chosen my plan - Hal Higdon Novice 2 (but without the speedwork as my legs don't like it, but i want to do the mileage over doing Novice 1) - which includes a Half Marathon race half way through the plan.
What are the benefits of doing a race half way through the plan? is it just race experience? (of which i feel that i have plenty) are there any other benefits i'm missing out on if i just run 13 miles that weekend?
thoughts, suggestions, ideas from more experienced runners would be appreciated!0 -
Hal Higdon's training plans are good novice, get-to-the-finish plans. If you're in it for the long haul, though, I suggest trying some training plans that help you build a better base. They take more time, but you'll be glad you did. Here is a good base-building "pre-conditioning" training plan by Pasadena Pacers: https://www.runpacers.org/pasadena/training-programs/pre-conditioners/0
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IM_in_training wrote: »Hal Higdon's training plans are good novice, get-to-the-finish plans. If you're in it for the long haul, though, I suggest trying some training plans that help you build a better base. They take more time, but you'll be glad you did. Here is a good base-building "pre-conditioning" training plan by Pasadena Pacers: https://www.runpacers.org/pasadena/training-programs/pre-conditioners/
that link is for a couch to 5 miles plan... i run half marathons currently?0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »IM_in_training wrote: »Hal Higdon's training plans are good novice, get-to-the-finish plans. If you're in it for the long haul, though, I suggest trying some training plans that help you build a better base. They take more time, but you'll be glad you did. Here is a good base-building "pre-conditioning" training plan by Pasadena Pacers: https://www.runpacers.org/pasadena/training-programs/pre-conditioners/
that link is for a couch to 5 miles plan... i run half marathons currently?
Here's their half program: https://www.runpacers.org/pasadena/training-programs/half-marathon/
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TavistockToad wrote: »Thought i would resurrect this thread for another question!
I haven't started training for my marathon yet, but i have chosen my plan - Hal Higdon Novice 2 (but without the speedwork as my legs don't like it, but i want to do the mileage over doing Novice 1) - which includes a Half Marathon race half way through the plan.
What are the benefits of doing a race half way through the plan? is it just race experience? (of which i feel that i have plenty) are there any other benefits i'm missing out on if i just run 13 miles that weekend?
thoughts, suggestions, ideas from more experienced runners would be appreciated!
For your first marathon, a half marathon as a training race is a good time to practice running at marathon pace in a race environment. If you lose discipline and run too fast, you won't mess yourself up as much as running too fast in an actual marathon. But running the half, with other runners passing you, and holding to your planned pace even though you know you're in a race and you *could* run faster, helps to prepare you to do the same in the actual marathon.
A common saying for a marathon is, "Don't go out too fast." For someone with experience running half marathons, I would add: The first half of your first marathon should be the slowest half marathon you've run in your life.
Unless you use a half as a training race, and successfully control yourself to run at marathon pace. Do that, and what you should feel at the end of the half is that you ran faster than easy, but it really doesn't feel like you worked as hard as running a half marathon race. That's what you want to feel at the halfway point of the marathon.
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TavistockToad wrote: »Thought i would resurrect this thread for another question!
I haven't started training for my marathon yet, but i have chosen my plan - Hal Higdon Novice 2 (but without the speedwork as my legs don't like it, but i want to do the mileage over doing Novice 1) - which includes a Half Marathon race half way through the plan.
What are the benefits of doing a race half way through the plan? is it just race experience? (of which i feel that i have plenty) are there any other benefits i'm missing out on if i just run 13 miles that weekend?
thoughts, suggestions, ideas from more experienced runners would be appreciated!
For your first marathon, a half marathon as a training race is a good time to practice running at marathon pace in a race environment. If you lose discipline and run too fast, you won't mess yourself up as much as running too fast in an actual marathon. But running the half, with other runners passing you, and holding to your planned pace even though you know you're in a race and you *could* run faster, helps to prepare you to do the same in the actual marathon.
A common saying for a marathon is, "Don't go out too fast." For someone with experience running half marathons, I would add: The first half of your first marathon should be the slowest half marathon you've run in your life.
Unless you use a half as a training race, and successfully control yourself to run at marathon pace. Do that, and what you should feel at the end of the half is that you ran faster than easy, but it really doesn't feel like you worked as hard as running a half marathon race. That's what you want to feel at the halfway point of the marathon.
Interesting, thank you.
I heard a talk by a runner recently (came 3rd in new york marathon in the 90s aparently) who said that you should do a negative split for a full, and not doing that is the biggest mistake newbie marathoners make. That advice has stuck with me.0 -
IM_in_training wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »IM_in_training wrote: »Hal Higdon's training plans are good novice, get-to-the-finish plans. If you're in it for the long haul, though, I suggest trying some training plans that help you build a better base. They take more time, but you'll be glad you did. Here is a good base-building "pre-conditioning" training plan by Pasadena Pacers: https://www.runpacers.org/pasadena/training-programs/pre-conditioners/
that link is for a couch to 5 miles plan... i run half marathons currently?
Here's their half program: https://www.runpacers.org/pasadena/training-programs/half-marathon/
I have a plan for my half and my full, thanks.0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »I heard a talk by a runner recently (came 3rd in new york marathon in the 90s aparently) who said that you should do a negative split for a full, and not doing that is the biggest mistake newbie marathoners make. That advice has stuck with me.
Clearly I don't have the experience as the guy you listened to, but I think telling someone who's never run a marathon before that they should run negative splits is asking a lot, for two reasons. 1 - With a huge base, most new marathon runners will experience pretty intense muscle fatigue and cramps in last several miles. Good luck doing negative splits with that. 2 - Race nutrition. yes you can and should practice this but without marathon experience to draw on, you're not really going to know exactly what it's like and nailing your nutrition so you can run negative splits is going to be tough. The underlying theme is solid though...don't go out too fast.
And I agree with all @MobyCarp says above.4 -
TavistockToad wrote: »I heard a talk by a runner recently (came 3rd in new york marathon in the 90s aparently) who said that you should do a negative split for a full, and not doing that is the biggest mistake newbie marathoners make. That advice has stuck with me.
Clearly I don't have the experience as the guy you listened to, but I think telling someone who's never run a marathon before that they should run negative splits is asking a lot, for two reasons. 1 - With a huge base, most new marathon runners will experience pretty intense muscle fatigue and cramps in last several miles. Good luck doing negative splits with that. 2 - Race nutrition. yes you can and should practice this but without marathon experience to draw on, you're not really going to know exactly what it's like and nailing your nutrition so you can run negative splits is going to be tough. The underlying theme is solid though...don't go out too fast.
And I agree with all @MobyCarp says above.
Yes, exactly that - start out slower than you think you should.
I might just walk the first 13 so I know I'm not going too fast :laugh:0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »I heard a talk by a runner recently (came 3rd in new york marathon in the 90s aparently) who said that you should do a negative split for a full, and not doing that is the biggest mistake newbie marathoners make. That advice has stuck with me.
Clearly I don't have the experience as the guy you listened to, but I think telling someone who's never run a marathon before that they should run negative splits is asking a lot, for two reasons. 1 - With a huge base, most new marathon runners will experience pretty intense muscle fatigue and cramps in last several miles. Good luck doing negative splits with that. 2 - Race nutrition. yes you can and should practice this but without marathon experience to draw on, you're not really going to know exactly what it's like and nailing your nutrition so you can run negative splits is going to be tough. The underlying theme is solid though...don't go out too fast.
And I agree with all @MobyCarp says above.
Yes, exactly that - start out slower than you think you should.
I might just walk the first 13 so I know I'm not going too fast :laugh:
Follow my plan. Last race 1/2 I was 2:45. You just need to run on ice while it is snowing
God it was miserable0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »I heard a talk by a runner recently (came 3rd in new york marathon in the 90s aparently) who said that you should do a negative split for a full, and not doing that is the biggest mistake newbie marathoners make. That advice has stuck with me.
Clearly I don't have the experience as the guy you listened to, but I think telling someone who's never run a marathon before that they should run negative splits is asking a lot, for two reasons. 1 - With a huge base, most new marathon runners will experience pretty intense muscle fatigue and cramps in last several miles. Good luck doing negative splits with that. 2 - Race nutrition. yes you can and should practice this but without marathon experience to draw on, you're not really going to know exactly what it's like and nailing your nutrition so you can run negative splits is going to be tough. The underlying theme is solid though...don't go out too fast.
And I agree with all @MobyCarp says above.
I agree with this 100%. But that's not to say that you shouldn't AIM to run negative splits. Plan and execution are two different things. Executing a perfect marathon plan is tough on your first attempt, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't try. Shooting for negative splits will definitely help to make sure you don't go out too fast. I think that the biggest mistake that newbies make is thinking that they can "bank" time by running faster at the start when they are fresh. This rarely, if ever, works, even for experienced marathoners.1 -
When I've paced a marathon well, it feels almost way too easy in the first half. By mile 25, that same pace I held for the first half took quite a bit of effort to maintain. If you are starting to feel tired by the halfway point, you are in for a rough day...3
