Marathon Training Plans
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IM_in_training wrote: »Hal Higdon's training plans are good novice, get-to-the-finish plans. If you're in it for the long haul, though, I suggest trying some training plans that help you build a better base. They take more time, but you'll be glad you did. Here is a good base-building "pre-conditioning" training plan by Pasadena Pacers: https://www.runpacers.org/pasadena/training-programs/pre-conditioners/
that link is for a couch to 5 miles plan... i run half marathons currently?0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »IM_in_training wrote: »Hal Higdon's training plans are good novice, get-to-the-finish plans. If you're in it for the long haul, though, I suggest trying some training plans that help you build a better base. They take more time, but you'll be glad you did. Here is a good base-building "pre-conditioning" training plan by Pasadena Pacers: https://www.runpacers.org/pasadena/training-programs/pre-conditioners/
that link is for a couch to 5 miles plan... i run half marathons currently?
Here's their half program: https://www.runpacers.org/pasadena/training-programs/half-marathon/
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TavistockToad wrote: »Thought i would resurrect this thread for another question!
I haven't started training for my marathon yet, but i have chosen my plan - Hal Higdon Novice 2 (but without the speedwork as my legs don't like it, but i want to do the mileage over doing Novice 1) - which includes a Half Marathon race half way through the plan.
What are the benefits of doing a race half way through the plan? is it just race experience? (of which i feel that i have plenty) are there any other benefits i'm missing out on if i just run 13 miles that weekend?
thoughts, suggestions, ideas from more experienced runners would be appreciated!
For your first marathon, a half marathon as a training race is a good time to practice running at marathon pace in a race environment. If you lose discipline and run too fast, you won't mess yourself up as much as running too fast in an actual marathon. But running the half, with other runners passing you, and holding to your planned pace even though you know you're in a race and you *could* run faster, helps to prepare you to do the same in the actual marathon.
A common saying for a marathon is, "Don't go out too fast." For someone with experience running half marathons, I would add: The first half of your first marathon should be the slowest half marathon you've run in your life.
Unless you use a half as a training race, and successfully control yourself to run at marathon pace. Do that, and what you should feel at the end of the half is that you ran faster than easy, but it really doesn't feel like you worked as hard as running a half marathon race. That's what you want to feel at the halfway point of the marathon.
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TavistockToad wrote: »Thought i would resurrect this thread for another question!
I haven't started training for my marathon yet, but i have chosen my plan - Hal Higdon Novice 2 (but without the speedwork as my legs don't like it, but i want to do the mileage over doing Novice 1) - which includes a Half Marathon race half way through the plan.
What are the benefits of doing a race half way through the plan? is it just race experience? (of which i feel that i have plenty) are there any other benefits i'm missing out on if i just run 13 miles that weekend?
thoughts, suggestions, ideas from more experienced runners would be appreciated!
For your first marathon, a half marathon as a training race is a good time to practice running at marathon pace in a race environment. If you lose discipline and run too fast, you won't mess yourself up as much as running too fast in an actual marathon. But running the half, with other runners passing you, and holding to your planned pace even though you know you're in a race and you *could* run faster, helps to prepare you to do the same in the actual marathon.
A common saying for a marathon is, "Don't go out too fast." For someone with experience running half marathons, I would add: The first half of your first marathon should be the slowest half marathon you've run in your life.
Unless you use a half as a training race, and successfully control yourself to run at marathon pace. Do that, and what you should feel at the end of the half is that you ran faster than easy, but it really doesn't feel like you worked as hard as running a half marathon race. That's what you want to feel at the halfway point of the marathon.
Interesting, thank you.
I heard a talk by a runner recently (came 3rd in new york marathon in the 90s aparently) who said that you should do a negative split for a full, and not doing that is the biggest mistake newbie marathoners make. That advice has stuck with me.0 -
IM_in_training wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »IM_in_training wrote: »Hal Higdon's training plans are good novice, get-to-the-finish plans. If you're in it for the long haul, though, I suggest trying some training plans that help you build a better base. They take more time, but you'll be glad you did. Here is a good base-building "pre-conditioning" training plan by Pasadena Pacers: https://www.runpacers.org/pasadena/training-programs/pre-conditioners/
that link is for a couch to 5 miles plan... i run half marathons currently?
Here's their half program: https://www.runpacers.org/pasadena/training-programs/half-marathon/
I have a plan for my half and my full, thanks.0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »I heard a talk by a runner recently (came 3rd in new york marathon in the 90s aparently) who said that you should do a negative split for a full, and not doing that is the biggest mistake newbie marathoners make. That advice has stuck with me.
Clearly I don't have the experience as the guy you listened to, but I think telling someone who's never run a marathon before that they should run negative splits is asking a lot, for two reasons. 1 - With a huge base, most new marathon runners will experience pretty intense muscle fatigue and cramps in last several miles. Good luck doing negative splits with that. 2 - Race nutrition. yes you can and should practice this but without marathon experience to draw on, you're not really going to know exactly what it's like and nailing your nutrition so you can run negative splits is going to be tough. The underlying theme is solid though...don't go out too fast.
And I agree with all @MobyCarp says above.4 -
TavistockToad wrote: »I heard a talk by a runner recently (came 3rd in new york marathon in the 90s aparently) who said that you should do a negative split for a full, and not doing that is the biggest mistake newbie marathoners make. That advice has stuck with me.
Clearly I don't have the experience as the guy you listened to, but I think telling someone who's never run a marathon before that they should run negative splits is asking a lot, for two reasons. 1 - With a huge base, most new marathon runners will experience pretty intense muscle fatigue and cramps in last several miles. Good luck doing negative splits with that. 2 - Race nutrition. yes you can and should practice this but without marathon experience to draw on, you're not really going to know exactly what it's like and nailing your nutrition so you can run negative splits is going to be tough. The underlying theme is solid though...don't go out too fast.
And I agree with all @MobyCarp says above.
Yes, exactly that - start out slower than you think you should.
I might just walk the first 13 so I know I'm not going too fast :laugh:0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »I heard a talk by a runner recently (came 3rd in new york marathon in the 90s aparently) who said that you should do a negative split for a full, and not doing that is the biggest mistake newbie marathoners make. That advice has stuck with me.
Clearly I don't have the experience as the guy you listened to, but I think telling someone who's never run a marathon before that they should run negative splits is asking a lot, for two reasons. 1 - With a huge base, most new marathon runners will experience pretty intense muscle fatigue and cramps in last several miles. Good luck doing negative splits with that. 2 - Race nutrition. yes you can and should practice this but without marathon experience to draw on, you're not really going to know exactly what it's like and nailing your nutrition so you can run negative splits is going to be tough. The underlying theme is solid though...don't go out too fast.
And I agree with all @MobyCarp says above.
Yes, exactly that - start out slower than you think you should.
I might just walk the first 13 so I know I'm not going too fast :laugh:
Follow my plan. Last race 1/2 I was 2:45. You just need to run on ice while it is snowing
God it was miserable0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »I heard a talk by a runner recently (came 3rd in new york marathon in the 90s aparently) who said that you should do a negative split for a full, and not doing that is the biggest mistake newbie marathoners make. That advice has stuck with me.
Clearly I don't have the experience as the guy you listened to, but I think telling someone who's never run a marathon before that they should run negative splits is asking a lot, for two reasons. 1 - With a huge base, most new marathon runners will experience pretty intense muscle fatigue and cramps in last several miles. Good luck doing negative splits with that. 2 - Race nutrition. yes you can and should practice this but without marathon experience to draw on, you're not really going to know exactly what it's like and nailing your nutrition so you can run negative splits is going to be tough. The underlying theme is solid though...don't go out too fast.
And I agree with all @MobyCarp says above.
I agree with this 100%. But that's not to say that you shouldn't AIM to run negative splits. Plan and execution are two different things. Executing a perfect marathon plan is tough on your first attempt, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't try. Shooting for negative splits will definitely help to make sure you don't go out too fast. I think that the biggest mistake that newbies make is thinking that they can "bank" time by running faster at the start when they are fresh. This rarely, if ever, works, even for experienced marathoners.1 -
When I've paced a marathon well, it feels almost way too easy in the first half. By mile 25, that same pace I held for the first half took quite a bit of effort to maintain. If you are starting to feel tired by the halfway point, you are in for a rough day...3
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The purpose of the HM 6-8 weeks ahead of your marathon is to dial in your race pace. It lets you know what your current fitness level is so you can set a realistic goal pace.1
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Huh. Looks like we lost someone. That sucks.0
