Oh, this is a great question and I think I'm dealing with something similar, although I'm prepping to (hopefully!) PR in a half marathon at the moment (I've run 6 marathons, though, so I've been in that boat too).

From what I've read, I think it's first a matter of defining what you mean by "speed work". Are you talking about lactate threshold runs? Or shorter, faster intervals? I think the vast majority of what I've read would say that for marathon running what's key is building up endurance through logging more miles, and secondly working on lactate threshold. Traditional speed work (short, fast intervals) would count as not very important at this distance.

However, there's also two schools about lactate threshold runs. For a few years, and a few marathon seasons, I followed the Hanson's marathon method, which had me building up endurance by increasing weekly mileage and substituted the traditional lactate threshold runs with marathon-pace runs - the point being to practice running at the pace you're going to run your marathon in. These were quite long (8-12 miles or thereabouts) and because they came without real rest days before or after it was supposed to simulate the last leg of the race, since you started the workout more tired than you would in a traditional program.

It sounds like this might be something you might want to try out at some point (e.g., runs "at marathon pace" rather than traditional lactate threshold). I know of the Matt Fitzgerald book but haven't used it myself. I spent a number of years with Hanson's and that was really the period where I feel like I got a good mileage base under me - it didn't increase my top speed (nor was it really designed to) but I could run longer at marathon/half marathon pace, and it taught me to pace myself extremely well, too, which I think is something everyone struggles with at that distance.

I've since switched to following Pete Pfitzinger's Road Racing because I felt like I'd maxed out with Hanson's and wanted to try something different. He mixes in more traditional lactate threshold and workouts with short, fast (5k pace) intervals, but I'm using it for a half marathon plan atm.

I'd be curious to hear about Fitzgerald's approach in general and also how you're finding it. I might be in the market for something new soon.

sorry - an addendum to my post above, I realise I didn't explicitly answer your question:

"do you think that there is a significant value in short, fast intervals for marathon training"

100% yes! But once a week is enough in my limited experience. With a second workout of longer duration with some of those intervals being a half mara pace, some at 10k pace, some at 5k pace (and of course, for a longer interval distance).

For those workouts to be effective, you'll need to do an FTP test at the start of your training to give you a good understanding of your heart rate zones/

One workout I'd highly recommend you do about 14 days before the marathon is the following, and forgive me if this is too much/unwanted detail, but it was such an important workout for me, so I want to share:

10min warm up
Repeat the following four steps, 3 times:
1) 5min just below lactate threshold
2) 5mins at lactate threshold
3) Repeat 5 times:
3a) 20seconds flat out
3b) 40seconds recover
4) 3 minute recover
10 min cool down

I was really intimidated by that workout. Half way thru it, I just didn't see how I was possibly going to be able to go faster when the watch beeped the next time, but I did and was amazed at how much quicker I had become over the course of the previous 3-4 months. This gave me such a confidence boost for the race. I knew I was ready.

not long now then. Good luck! Look forward to hearing how it went

7lenny7 wrote: »

Great question and I look forward to the answers.

Running faster forces you to use a more efficient stride (so I've read) and your body learns to use that stride at other paces. A more efficient stride means less fuel consumption during the race and a faster pace for a given effort.

Recently I think I saw this first hand. My easy pace has been about 9:15, and nearly all of my runs had been at that pace. Last weekend I had a rare 5k and did fairly well, missing my PR by just 12 seconds. The next day I went out for an easy run and my pace was 8:35. I think I need to do more speed work if that's the improvement I'm going to see.

I have to jump in support of this. I think there is another aspect along with efficient stride, I think there is also form. I experienced something like this just last night. The workout was:

- 10 mins warmup
- 4 mins 5k pace
- 4 X 45 secs steep hill sprint
- 10 mins half mara pace
- 2mins easy
- repeat

the first 4mins at 5k pace was a disaster. I just couldn't get to the pace and I felt like I was shuffling along. I became convinced I was tired from the bike FTP test I did the day before and was close to quitting because clearly it was a waste of time, but I stuck with it and the hill sprints had the effect of "reprogramming" my stride and pace. I rolled into the 10mins feeling stronger and actively having to slow myself down because my pace was too quick.

I think it's the act of focussing on being upright, powerful, looking ahead and pumping the arms that did it. I locked into that feeling for the rest of the workout and it was a big help.

Don't know if that makes sense to anyone else, but it was a great reminder for me.

I've done a Pfitzinger plan (18/55) for my last two marathons (out of 5) and got PRs in both. He does a combination of speedwork - mostly long tempo runs for the first half, run at about 15k pace (supposed to be between your 10k and HM pace, with slower runners closer to 10k pace and faster runners closer to HM pace, since tempo is the pace you can maintain for an hour), then the second half he does shorter intervals (400m - 1600 m) run at 5k pace. He also includes 3 short races in the latter half. I've never done these since we don't have a lot of 8-15k races near me. Then there are strides, which are usually done every other week, that help with pure speed and form.

My understanding is that the speedwork is partly to help you work on stamina and the mental game. If you can finish 7 miles at 15k pace, that helps when you are at mile 23 and have to gut through the next few miles. Same with doing your 5th 1000 m. repeat.