At Wits End
bmeadows380
Posts: 2,981 Member
well, my diet experiment with 5:2, 16:8, and OMAD all failed miserably. Trying to fast and only eat within a certain window of time, and trying to fast in general has resulted in a 12 lb gain in the last month.
*sigh*
Honestly? I'm at wits end. I honestly do not know what to do. Everything I've tried, and that's been pretty much every gimmick out there in the last 20 years, has failed for me. Calorie counting works the best of all of them, I know, but in the end, I can't keep the weight off, and calorie counting ends up exhausting me mentally. I'm now at the heaviest I've been in 5 years, and 10 lbs shy of being right back where I started in 2017 when I finally dropped below 300. I'm back above 300 lbs for the first time in 5 years, and I can't seem to find the turn off switch! I swore I wasn't going to be in this place again, that after 5 years, at least I'd stay below 300 lbs, and yet, here I am. *sigh* Its enough to make me want to cry.
I KNOW what I need to do, but the amount of effort its going to take? ITs like my brain is saying "You fooled me in 2017 and 2020 and caught me, but I'm onto you know, and I know your game plan, and you aren't going to win this time." The sheer vigilance of counting every morsel that goes into my mouth coupled with the 2 hours a day of exercise it took to shed that 60 lbs in 2020? Its exhausting just thinking of trying to do it again. My body aches just thinking of that amount of walking again.
And I've realized its the brain drive that I'm fighting against, the brain drive to eat. Even when I know my tummy is telling me its full, my brain is driving me to distraction to eat more. And apparently, my attempts at fasting has made the brain drive even worse.
My doctor suggested trying Zoom, but when I looked into it a) its extremely expensive and i can't afford and b)I already have learned the nutrition advice that its going to give here on MyFitnessPal and have already put those tricks to work, such as no sugar sweetened drinks, going for the lower calorie options, portion size control, lots of fruits and veggies and healthy grains and lean proteins, not keeping a lot of snack foods in the house, etc. Further, the reviews for the coaching part are poor.
I've tried keto, Mediterranean, higher protein - none of it stops the brain hunger. And this winter was the experiments with fasting windows, which has just made things worse. Its a fight to make myself fast, and once I come off? I found that i ended up eating even more.
I've been looking into the FDA approved weight loss drugs, but that's just led to even more depression for me. Of the 5 medications that are currently on the market, I don't think Orlistat or Qsymia are options for me. That leaves 3 options - Contrave, Saxenda (Victova), and Wegovy (Ozempic). The results of the medications aren't all that great in all honesty. For Contrave and Saxenda, I could expect to lose 5-8% of my body weight or 15 to 25 lbs max. That's not very good results, in my opinion and not even close to what I need to lose. Wegovy, the newest, has shown promise of much better - between 10 and 15% modestly which would be 30 to 46 lbs off, which is much better, but the cost is prohibitive. Even with my insurance covering part of the cost, its extremely expensive - $350 for a 3 month supply of Contrave, $723 for a 3 month supply of Saxenda, and $772 for a 3 month supply of Wegovy. I simply cannot afford that at all!
Plus, I'm very doubtful the drugs will work anyway. My doctor back in 2017 tried me on generic Welbutrin, which is half of the formulation of Contrave since the cost of Welbutrin is way lower. However, after 6 months at the highest doses, I had no effect whatsoever. And since I seem to have a high tolerance for opioids, I'm honestly doubting very much Contrave would work for me. And the other two, which are type 2 diabetic drugs, are once and week injections and may well not be options for me after all because of the warnings they have for thyroid tumors as a possible side effect. Since I've had my thyroid removed for thyroid cancer, I'm thinking my endocrinologist would mix those two.
But looking into the diet drugs brought to my attention some of the research going on behind them and the thoughts of some scientists that obesity could be caused by hormonal problems, such as leptin, grehlin, and the GLP-1 peptide, and I do wonder if this is my problem - that either my body doesn't respond well to the leptin hormone that is supposed to signal my brain that its no longer needing to eat, or that the GLP-1levels are low (which is what the Saxenda and Wegovy target). GLP-1 is defined as this:
The glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1) is a multifaceted hormone with broad pharmacological potential. Among the numerous metabolic effects of GLP-1 are the glucose-dependent stimulation of insulin secretion, decrease of gastric emptying, inhibition of food intake, increase of natriuresis and diuresis, and modulation of rodent β-cell proliferation. GLP-1 also has cardio- and neuroprotective effects, decreases inflammation and apoptosis, and has implications for learning and memory, reward behavior, and palatability. Biochemically modified for enhanced potency and sustained action, GLP-1 receptor agonists are successfully in clinical use for the treatment of type-2 diabetes, and several GLP-1-based pharmacotherapies are in clinical evaluation for the treatment of obesity.
So I am really starting to wonder if GLP-1 deficiency is what is causing my brain hunger issues, but what can I do about it? That winds us back to the Saxenda and Wegovy, because those drugs have to do with boosting GLP-1 levels which started as diabetic drugs because of their ability to improve blood glucose levels because of the influence GLP-1 has on insulin. But as I said before, I don't think my endocrinologist would agree that they would be a good idea for me to try with my history of thyroid cancer, and besides which the cost is extremely prohibitive.
How else can these hormones be adjusted? One method is moderate intensity exercise, which is depressing because I can't seem to find the energy to even keep light exercise going, let alone moderate. I DETEST exercise machines and gyms - and I've tried them. Its a battle to get myself to use them, to stay, and when I'm done working out? I feel exhausted and just glad its over, and dreading the next session. I HATE regular exercise with a passion. I've tried exercise classes, tried martial arts, tried exercise videos - none of them stick because I despise them all, and I can't in the end win the mental war with myself to keep making myself do something I hate with a passion and that leaves me exhausted, sore, and mentally spent.
Besides which, where is the time? My job takes up 9 hours of my waking day and officially ends at 5:30. Even though I'm working from home, I'm tied to my computer most of the day, and while I can fit in various house chores, I can't do anything that takes more than 5 or 10 minutes here or there. And even by starting diner before 5:30, its 7 by the time we eat and I get the kitchen cleaned up. Usually, its getting too dark by then to do something outside, which rolls me back to the darned exercise machines that I hate with a passion.
I lose the battle with trying to run myself out of bed early in the morning to get a walk in before work - the older I get, the harder it is to get out of bed before 7 AM. Maybe, when it gets warmer and my armpit surgical wound is healed, I might be able to take time out during the afternoon, but whatever time I take is going to have to be tacked onto the end of the day, which means even if I can win the war and make myself get up at 6 AM so I can start my day at 7 instead of 8 for work, I'm going to be 6:30 finishing my day up. And if I want to try to get 7 hours of sleep, then I have to be getting ready for bed and in bed by 10:30 at the latest to make sure I get to sleep. There just doesn't seem to be enough time to do all the things I need to do! Because In that time, I also have to fit in gardening, cleaning house, laundry, church obligations, lawn care, and trying to get quality time with my hubby.
My husband loves swimming and thinks that would be an exercise he could get himself to do regularly, and with its ease on the joints, its something I'd like to try. However, even though they are finally opening an indoor pool up in the county, its 25 miles away. I'm working from home on the opposite end of the county. My husband is already working in the county seat where the pool is, so he's already in town and it would make sense for him to go swim after work. But for me, it would be driving in my truck 50 miles round trip, and with gas prices what they are, that's an expense we can't afford. That would be both vehicles driving 50 miles a day. Plus we get back to the time factor, and i can't get to the pool before they close, anyway. *sigh*
I'm sorry to whine, but the obesity struggle and failures I've been dealing with along with the massive regain is really hitting me hard. It doesn't help either that I know that my window for pregnancy is rapidly diminishing - each year now is a massive drop in fertility since I'm now 42. I've got maybe 3 years, maybe. But I also know that even though I don't have heart problems or diabetes or anything like that, my age would already make me high risk, and couple that age with being over 300 lbs? I sincerely doubt my doctor is going to tell me that getting pregnant is a good idea right now.
Of course, taking time to lose the weight over the next year also cuts into that 3 year window......
*sigh* So where am I now? I'm at the point where I am seriously considering weight loss surgery. I've always said WLS should be a last resort, and until now, I never considered myself to be in that position. I had lost the weight before on my own, so since I've proven I can do it on my own, then surgery shouldn't be an option for me, right? Except I couldn't keep the weight off on my own, and now, I can't seem to restart the very thing that I used to lose it on my own the first time because its like my brain has cut off that strategy in its war with me.
And unfortunately, WLS is truly the cheapest option for me. I had to have surgery last week to remove a cyst, which means I have met my individual yearly deductible for this year, and I'm over halfway through the out of pocket deductible. Meaning that I could expect to pay less than $3,000 if I have WLS done before 12/31 of this year, and the insurance would cover the rest. So sadly, weight loss surgery is the most economical solution I have outside of trying to figure out how to buckle down and win the war against my brain without any outside help.
BUT I don't have a lot of hope that WLS will work long term any more than extreme exercise and meticulously calorie counting did. Both methods will result in weight loss, yes, but will they keep it off? Will they fix the brain issue? Because calorie counting did not work in keeping the weight off. Once I hit a plateau, my brain wins the battle. So exercising apparently doesn't long term fix any leptin or GLP-1 problems I'm having.
But while WLS has been shown to improve leptin and GLP1-1 in the beginning, long term, its benefits to those levels also subside from what I've read. Meaning, I'll have the weight off, but find myself in the same boat as those hormones balance back out. And I've seen from my brother, sister in law, and cousin, that keeping the weight off long term is just as hard for WLS patients as it was for me losing it the calorie counting way. All three have gained back a significant amount of what they lost. No, my brother and sister in law are not back to where they started (though my cousin is), but they regained well over half of what they did lose.
So could I keep it off if I lose it through WLS? I don't know, and that's the big catch. Though my husband had a point - if I could lose 120 lbs through WLS, that would put me down to the 180 that is my pipe dream weight. But if I regained half of that, I'd be sitting at 240, which is loads better than 300, but could I really stay at the 240, or would I find myself creeping up again? Is WLS surgery really a long term solution?
I HATE where I am right now. I've made so many mistakes and failed so miserably and now I'm facing the consequences, but I don't know what to do to FIX this! And all the cliché and pithy sayings just make it worse. Like the one I've seen bandied about "fat is hard. losing weight is hard. choose your hard." That one lately has just been really making me feel like I'm a lazy, gluttonous horrible failure because yeah, being fat is hard, and losing weight is hard, but they are not equally hard - losing the weight is 10 times even harder than just being fat, and I can't seem to find the fortitude or wherewithal or the extra effort I need to win that harder thing.
*sigh* I've got an appointment later this month to talk to my doctor about this because I'm completely out of options at the moment, and I'm very depressed and feeling trapped and upset and frustrated and so very, very furious with myself because even with the loads of self condemnation I'm heaping onto myself at the moment, my brain is STILL driving me to eat. I'm at the point where it seems that just about every waking hour, I'm finding myself thinking about food. Constantly being aware of my weight, of my need to lose weight, of my desire to snack is just mental exhausting, which unfortunately is spilling over into being physically exhausting as well, and making it hard to do anything.
My mother tells me to just accept that I'm fat and live my life, but I cant' seem to come to that point yet. I want to win this battle, dang it! But I'm so very, very tired of the constant failure and yo-yoing. AT the same time, it was SO depressing to go through my closet and have to store 75% of it because I've gained so much weight back, I can't wear the new clothes I bought myself. I feel so self conscious because of my weight. I don't feel attractive, and I'm back to wanting to avoid social activities because of it.
Sorry for the longwinded rant - this has been boiling under the surface for a while now, and I needed a release!
*sigh*
Honestly? I'm at wits end. I honestly do not know what to do. Everything I've tried, and that's been pretty much every gimmick out there in the last 20 years, has failed for me. Calorie counting works the best of all of them, I know, but in the end, I can't keep the weight off, and calorie counting ends up exhausting me mentally. I'm now at the heaviest I've been in 5 years, and 10 lbs shy of being right back where I started in 2017 when I finally dropped below 300. I'm back above 300 lbs for the first time in 5 years, and I can't seem to find the turn off switch! I swore I wasn't going to be in this place again, that after 5 years, at least I'd stay below 300 lbs, and yet, here I am. *sigh* Its enough to make me want to cry.
I KNOW what I need to do, but the amount of effort its going to take? ITs like my brain is saying "You fooled me in 2017 and 2020 and caught me, but I'm onto you know, and I know your game plan, and you aren't going to win this time." The sheer vigilance of counting every morsel that goes into my mouth coupled with the 2 hours a day of exercise it took to shed that 60 lbs in 2020? Its exhausting just thinking of trying to do it again. My body aches just thinking of that amount of walking again.
And I've realized its the brain drive that I'm fighting against, the brain drive to eat. Even when I know my tummy is telling me its full, my brain is driving me to distraction to eat more. And apparently, my attempts at fasting has made the brain drive even worse.
My doctor suggested trying Zoom, but when I looked into it a) its extremely expensive and i can't afford and b)I already have learned the nutrition advice that its going to give here on MyFitnessPal and have already put those tricks to work, such as no sugar sweetened drinks, going for the lower calorie options, portion size control, lots of fruits and veggies and healthy grains and lean proteins, not keeping a lot of snack foods in the house, etc. Further, the reviews for the coaching part are poor.
I've tried keto, Mediterranean, higher protein - none of it stops the brain hunger. And this winter was the experiments with fasting windows, which has just made things worse. Its a fight to make myself fast, and once I come off? I found that i ended up eating even more.
I've been looking into the FDA approved weight loss drugs, but that's just led to even more depression for me. Of the 5 medications that are currently on the market, I don't think Orlistat or Qsymia are options for me. That leaves 3 options - Contrave, Saxenda (Victova), and Wegovy (Ozempic). The results of the medications aren't all that great in all honesty. For Contrave and Saxenda, I could expect to lose 5-8% of my body weight or 15 to 25 lbs max. That's not very good results, in my opinion and not even close to what I need to lose. Wegovy, the newest, has shown promise of much better - between 10 and 15% modestly which would be 30 to 46 lbs off, which is much better, but the cost is prohibitive. Even with my insurance covering part of the cost, its extremely expensive - $350 for a 3 month supply of Contrave, $723 for a 3 month supply of Saxenda, and $772 for a 3 month supply of Wegovy. I simply cannot afford that at all!
Plus, I'm very doubtful the drugs will work anyway. My doctor back in 2017 tried me on generic Welbutrin, which is half of the formulation of Contrave since the cost of Welbutrin is way lower. However, after 6 months at the highest doses, I had no effect whatsoever. And since I seem to have a high tolerance for opioids, I'm honestly doubting very much Contrave would work for me. And the other two, which are type 2 diabetic drugs, are once and week injections and may well not be options for me after all because of the warnings they have for thyroid tumors as a possible side effect. Since I've had my thyroid removed for thyroid cancer, I'm thinking my endocrinologist would mix those two.
But looking into the diet drugs brought to my attention some of the research going on behind them and the thoughts of some scientists that obesity could be caused by hormonal problems, such as leptin, grehlin, and the GLP-1 peptide, and I do wonder if this is my problem - that either my body doesn't respond well to the leptin hormone that is supposed to signal my brain that its no longer needing to eat, or that the GLP-1levels are low (which is what the Saxenda and Wegovy target). GLP-1 is defined as this:
The glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1) is a multifaceted hormone with broad pharmacological potential. Among the numerous metabolic effects of GLP-1 are the glucose-dependent stimulation of insulin secretion, decrease of gastric emptying, inhibition of food intake, increase of natriuresis and diuresis, and modulation of rodent β-cell proliferation. GLP-1 also has cardio- and neuroprotective effects, decreases inflammation and apoptosis, and has implications for learning and memory, reward behavior, and palatability. Biochemically modified for enhanced potency and sustained action, GLP-1 receptor agonists are successfully in clinical use for the treatment of type-2 diabetes, and several GLP-1-based pharmacotherapies are in clinical evaluation for the treatment of obesity.
So I am really starting to wonder if GLP-1 deficiency is what is causing my brain hunger issues, but what can I do about it? That winds us back to the Saxenda and Wegovy, because those drugs have to do with boosting GLP-1 levels which started as diabetic drugs because of their ability to improve blood glucose levels because of the influence GLP-1 has on insulin. But as I said before, I don't think my endocrinologist would agree that they would be a good idea for me to try with my history of thyroid cancer, and besides which the cost is extremely prohibitive.
How else can these hormones be adjusted? One method is moderate intensity exercise, which is depressing because I can't seem to find the energy to even keep light exercise going, let alone moderate. I DETEST exercise machines and gyms - and I've tried them. Its a battle to get myself to use them, to stay, and when I'm done working out? I feel exhausted and just glad its over, and dreading the next session. I HATE regular exercise with a passion. I've tried exercise classes, tried martial arts, tried exercise videos - none of them stick because I despise them all, and I can't in the end win the mental war with myself to keep making myself do something I hate with a passion and that leaves me exhausted, sore, and mentally spent.
Besides which, where is the time? My job takes up 9 hours of my waking day and officially ends at 5:30. Even though I'm working from home, I'm tied to my computer most of the day, and while I can fit in various house chores, I can't do anything that takes more than 5 or 10 minutes here or there. And even by starting diner before 5:30, its 7 by the time we eat and I get the kitchen cleaned up. Usually, its getting too dark by then to do something outside, which rolls me back to the darned exercise machines that I hate with a passion.
I lose the battle with trying to run myself out of bed early in the morning to get a walk in before work - the older I get, the harder it is to get out of bed before 7 AM. Maybe, when it gets warmer and my armpit surgical wound is healed, I might be able to take time out during the afternoon, but whatever time I take is going to have to be tacked onto the end of the day, which means even if I can win the war and make myself get up at 6 AM so I can start my day at 7 instead of 8 for work, I'm going to be 6:30 finishing my day up. And if I want to try to get 7 hours of sleep, then I have to be getting ready for bed and in bed by 10:30 at the latest to make sure I get to sleep. There just doesn't seem to be enough time to do all the things I need to do! Because In that time, I also have to fit in gardening, cleaning house, laundry, church obligations, lawn care, and trying to get quality time with my hubby.
My husband loves swimming and thinks that would be an exercise he could get himself to do regularly, and with its ease on the joints, its something I'd like to try. However, even though they are finally opening an indoor pool up in the county, its 25 miles away. I'm working from home on the opposite end of the county. My husband is already working in the county seat where the pool is, so he's already in town and it would make sense for him to go swim after work. But for me, it would be driving in my truck 50 miles round trip, and with gas prices what they are, that's an expense we can't afford. That would be both vehicles driving 50 miles a day. Plus we get back to the time factor, and i can't get to the pool before they close, anyway. *sigh*
I'm sorry to whine, but the obesity struggle and failures I've been dealing with along with the massive regain is really hitting me hard. It doesn't help either that I know that my window for pregnancy is rapidly diminishing - each year now is a massive drop in fertility since I'm now 42. I've got maybe 3 years, maybe. But I also know that even though I don't have heart problems or diabetes or anything like that, my age would already make me high risk, and couple that age with being over 300 lbs? I sincerely doubt my doctor is going to tell me that getting pregnant is a good idea right now.
Of course, taking time to lose the weight over the next year also cuts into that 3 year window......*sigh* So where am I now? I'm at the point where I am seriously considering weight loss surgery. I've always said WLS should be a last resort, and until now, I never considered myself to be in that position. I had lost the weight before on my own, so since I've proven I can do it on my own, then surgery shouldn't be an option for me, right? Except I couldn't keep the weight off on my own, and now, I can't seem to restart the very thing that I used to lose it on my own the first time because its like my brain has cut off that strategy in its war with me.
And unfortunately, WLS is truly the cheapest option for me. I had to have surgery last week to remove a cyst, which means I have met my individual yearly deductible for this year, and I'm over halfway through the out of pocket deductible. Meaning that I could expect to pay less than $3,000 if I have WLS done before 12/31 of this year, and the insurance would cover the rest. So sadly, weight loss surgery is the most economical solution I have outside of trying to figure out how to buckle down and win the war against my brain without any outside help.
BUT I don't have a lot of hope that WLS will work long term any more than extreme exercise and meticulously calorie counting did. Both methods will result in weight loss, yes, but will they keep it off? Will they fix the brain issue? Because calorie counting did not work in keeping the weight off. Once I hit a plateau, my brain wins the battle. So exercising apparently doesn't long term fix any leptin or GLP-1 problems I'm having.
But while WLS has been shown to improve leptin and GLP1-1 in the beginning, long term, its benefits to those levels also subside from what I've read. Meaning, I'll have the weight off, but find myself in the same boat as those hormones balance back out. And I've seen from my brother, sister in law, and cousin, that keeping the weight off long term is just as hard for WLS patients as it was for me losing it the calorie counting way. All three have gained back a significant amount of what they lost. No, my brother and sister in law are not back to where they started (though my cousin is), but they regained well over half of what they did lose.
So could I keep it off if I lose it through WLS? I don't know, and that's the big catch. Though my husband had a point - if I could lose 120 lbs through WLS, that would put me down to the 180 that is my pipe dream weight. But if I regained half of that, I'd be sitting at 240, which is loads better than 300, but could I really stay at the 240, or would I find myself creeping up again? Is WLS surgery really a long term solution?
I HATE where I am right now. I've made so many mistakes and failed so miserably and now I'm facing the consequences, but I don't know what to do to FIX this! And all the cliché and pithy sayings just make it worse. Like the one I've seen bandied about "fat is hard. losing weight is hard. choose your hard." That one lately has just been really making me feel like I'm a lazy, gluttonous horrible failure because yeah, being fat is hard, and losing weight is hard, but they are not equally hard - losing the weight is 10 times even harder than just being fat, and I can't seem to find the fortitude or wherewithal or the extra effort I need to win that harder thing.
*sigh* I've got an appointment later this month to talk to my doctor about this because I'm completely out of options at the moment, and I'm very depressed and feeling trapped and upset and frustrated and so very, very furious with myself because even with the loads of self condemnation I'm heaping onto myself at the moment, my brain is STILL driving me to eat. I'm at the point where it seems that just about every waking hour, I'm finding myself thinking about food. Constantly being aware of my weight, of my need to lose weight, of my desire to snack is just mental exhausting, which unfortunately is spilling over into being physically exhausting as well, and making it hard to do anything.
My mother tells me to just accept that I'm fat and live my life, but I cant' seem to come to that point yet. I want to win this battle, dang it! But I'm so very, very tired of the constant failure and yo-yoing. AT the same time, it was SO depressing to go through my closet and have to store 75% of it because I've gained so much weight back, I can't wear the new clothes I bought myself. I feel so self conscious because of my weight. I don't feel attractive, and I'm back to wanting to avoid social activities because of it.
Sorry for the longwinded rant - this has been boiling under the surface for a while now, and I needed a release!
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Sigh….you are almost writing my own story!…if you really want advice, all I can say is, “Suck it up buttercup”…. You know how to lose weight and you have been very successful before….dieting and losing weight is not a “ fix “…. It is a constant daily battle…I have struggled badly the past year and regained 35 pounds as of today but it was 45 pounds so I am losing again….I certainly do not want another baby but I want to live many more years being healthy and strong….I guess you have to ask yourself if losing weight is worth the time and effort to lose the pounds….do you feel better now or when you were slimmer and eating healthier?….I hate exercise per say but I do enjoy swimming…..I hate to sweat….you do so much work outside that maybe that is enough exercise….I did no exercise the first year on MFP….I could barely walk around the house…what is working for me right now are a few things….I got rid of so many clothes that if I continue to gain I will need more new clothes….I keep reminding myself how bad I felt at 350 plus pounds; how limited my mobility was and how depressed I was all of the time….knowing I was pre diabetic and my b/p was becoming dangerous….how I was sleeping almost all day…..and more important is how good I feel now….how much better I look….I have been coming to terms with myself that I will have to weigh and measure and exercise a little for the rest of my life if I want to continue feeling the way I do now….it is a small price to pay for being healthier and stronger….I know you have the strength to do this again….you were one of my MFP idols!….you still are!…please don’t be so hard on yourself….you are a beautiful intelligent woman and you have so many years ahead of you to live a healthy life!3
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Bmeadows- I’ve read your whole posting! First please try to relax. I’ve done the lose / regain process myself several times as have others here. I’ve been over 300 lbs. This time around for me I have managed to maintain the weight loss. I’m at 25 lbs from goal but not regaining after almost two years.
Here’s a few thing I learned that might help you a little-
You don’t need to exercise to lose weight. My hour and a half at the gym gets me 250-300 extra calories. That’s a small banana and an apple. Exercise makes you fitter and stronger but unless you’re an elite athlete it’s not going to peel off pounds in a hurry, I exercised for years but didn’t control my eating resulting in constant weight gain not loss.
For me, I needed to clean up the pantry and refrigerator a little. If I don’t bring certain foods in the house it’s just easier. There are still snacks and treats but most are pre-packaged in individual portions.
I wasn’t ready to lose weight until I was READY. No amount of anxiety, shame, or guilt would give me determination.
The energy that I put into agonizing over my weight was better spent in logging and planning meals. If I don’t plan or at least log my meals daily, I tend to mentally detach myself from being accountable.
You need to enlist your husband to shop and plan meals. He has to commit to helping himself and you. Married weight loss is a challenge and a daily compromise. Remember the “for better” in the marriage vows?
Lastly take a deep breath and realize this will take time and it’s a learning process. Take the things that worked before and start again. Try to imagine what you’ll accomplish in the coming year rather than hoping for a quick fix.
We’re all here to help and support any way we can! ❣️4 -
The up and downs must feel so exhausting to you. A good investment, for real, might be to talk to someone about it. I am sure MFP can act as a very poor substitute. I'm sure more than one of us is using MFP that way!
But a real pro might have better insight and definitely experience on their side.
I can't address the roller coaster of emotions you're going through other than to say that I feel for you! (hug)
WLS? You have to ask yourself what you're accomplishing and whether it can be a win. The experience of what you see around you in terms of results is common. MY PERCEPTION, 100% self gathered online and on MFP, is that WLS MAY have some hormonal benefits early on vs caloric restriction; but that it is primarily relying on negative reinforcement to effect change.
If the patient fights it, is resentful, doesn't embrasse it as an opportunity, tries to sidestep, doesn't work on all the mental aspects that got their weight where it was... the end result will be working around the restrictions or relying on being sick to actually power through things--while being, err, sick--which doesn't sound too happy happy joy joy to me!
This is MY PERCEPTION. And it is negative as is obvious from the fact that I didn't choose it for myself. AND I WAS NEGATIVELY BIASED from the start. i.e. my bias in reading about WLS has always been towards finding the negatives that confirm my opinion as opposed to the (few in my opinion) positives that are also floating around
I was also sceptical about the hormonal claim. And while I admit that I HAVE read some studies that point to it as being real, since it is the only thing that sells me on the idea, I would really investigate all the studies that either support or don't support the notion, before committing.
BEYOND that.
I was resigned to never being able to lose weight. I was probably never above 300. Close enough for government work. Cat 3 Obese. But probably just below (analogue scale did go all the way around past 0, but max was 260 or 270 I believe, not 280. Unfortunately it was thrown out in 2015 before I realized I might have wanted to keep it!
A couple of things mentally helped me re-frame life sometime during the process of becoming more active and starting to lose weight.
PLEASE NOTE THAT BASED ON YOUR DESCRIPTIONS I WOULD ALREADY CONSIDER YOU TO BE ACTIVE, or at the very least lightly active, in your daily life. You are not describing a sedentary lifestyle!
So the things that I internalized? Realized? Resigned myself to? Accepted? Decided? call it what you will.
--There is no free lunch. To some degree SOME things WILL CHANGE. If they don't change I will continue to be the same weight.*
(* it doesn't have to be EVERYTHING. it doesn't have to be the end of the world as I knew it. but SOME things WILL CHANGE. The task is to discover WHICH THINGS AM I WILLING TO CHANGE! )
-- if some things WILL change. And if I am to discover what I am willing to change. EVERYTHING IS ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK. There are NO SACRED COWS. TV, reading, cooking, watching food network, activities, friends, family, job, EVERYTHING is ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK.*
(* it doesn't mean that everything will be chopped. It doesn't mean that substitutes that are almost as good or better won't be found (audiobooks vs reading, beet-root spirals vs pasta!) Just that BEFORE I CHOP MY TUMMY I WILL CHOP the guy who, for example, caused me to sit at a computer for 14 hours and then was grumping about having to buy a couple of lunches as a thank you. Haven't talked to the guy in 8 years. He gets the big middle finger and he can rotate too, and joyfully so! And other similar. It helps that I don't NEED huge interaction with people. A LOT of interaction involves food. Reducing food interaction HAS caused a reduction in interaction with people I used to hang out with more. I haven't felt the need to go out and meet other people who do other things which is the standard suggestion--people with more compatible interests--because I am OK with the reduction in interactions plus COVID sure as heck hasn't forced the issue. But the slow change is to seek people that are more aligned with your goals. SLOWLY. Anyway. NOTHING IS SACRED. EVERYTHING is up for EVALUATION--even if you decide not to change it)
-- And... what started this whole "rant"/ I hope more help than hindrance for you:
What would be my weight at at BMI 23.5? at BMI 25? At BMI 27? (since you're starting up a bit higher: at BMI 30?)
The goal is NOT weight loss. The goal is weight loss AND MAINTENANCE. You poo-pood (correctly I think unless you are willing to work on root causes and are under full medical supervision and are using the drugs extremely short term) a 10% loss. But a 10% loss --if maintained-- is incredibly significant health wise.
Your health does matter. I didn't feel it till my late 40's. But I did feel it by then. YMMV!
So. Goal is weight loss AND MAINTENANCE is what I was telling myself in late 2014/early 2015. You have to learn to eat at maintenance. What is the point of quickly losing weight if you cannot nail that maintenance level eating and you just regain. HOW can I manage to eat at maintenance since I've never done it? How can I survive on the so few 2000 or 2500 Cal your "average" lady or guy are supposed to burn (turns out that I am active enough that I burn more).
MY solution was to.... LEARN TO EAT AT 2500 CAL (2560 was my actual average eaten during my first year of MFP).
It doesn't matter how fast or slow I am losing weight. I am learning to eat for my maintenance level. Because THAT is what I will be eating for the rest of my life.
Maintenance level.
Now, knowing more, I would avoid creating an excessive deficit and would possibly reduce that "maintenance" level gradually. Starting with BMI 30 maintenance for a person of my activity. And when things slowed down switching to 27 then 25.
I would expect that the results will be asymptotic. To reach BMI 25 you will have to, at some point eat at BMI 23 level, to reach 27 at 25, etc. But these are decisions for down the road.
This is NOT fire and forget. Your health needs you to think in multi-year chunks. It is not weight loss. It is management of weight on-going, continuing, never ending so you better make it something you're willing to do and live and work with.
AND, from my perspective at least. IT IS ABSOLUTELY 100% WORTH IT and the BEST DECISION EVER.
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I love you Pav!….you wrote so much better than I did!…the Maintenance thing really hit home with me…..I have NEVER eaten at maintenance calories in my entire life….I either lose or gain always…that is why this go round I sat my calorie goal higher and want to lose consistently instead of sporadically….this week I have lost 11 pounds since Sunday eating almost 1600 calories a day…and yes, my weight loss will dramatically slow down very soon….but I am really wanting to go about this in a healthier way….and I have to take a few Maintenance breaks this time so I can prove that I can do it!….I never know when to take the break and I have never achieved a successful break….I want to do this long term….I am so so so ready to resume my weight loss journey….
PAV I am so thankful that you are with us….I miss Novus, too but you are great!….4 -
😍😘 actually Novus was quite perceptive. And I wish he were here! Maybe he is lurking and will re-appear as a pleasant surprise!
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That is why I'm not confident WLS would work because I see too many long term stories where it doesn't work, and the studies are pointing that way, too. For instance: I've seen the studies on the sleeve surgery which is very popular these days, and the long long results are not good; most, in order to keep their weight off, have to within 5 years get the Roux n Y bypass done as a second procedure. I really don't want to find myself in that boat. and if you regain after having Y bypass? there isn't any more surgery to be had.
But I can't seem to get to the point where I can be satisfied at maintenance calories, let alone what I need to lose weight. And in the end, its still losing weight that is the goal. I've learned things along the way, yes - some of my habits have changed, such as not keeping snacks in the house, being very judicious in what I choose to eat in restaurants, not ordering pizza because I know I can't stop at 2 slices, not drinking my calories beyond using unsweetened almond milk in my coffee, going for lower calorie choices. Those have become ingrained.
But how do you win against your brain? How, when you've had what you know is a full serving, when you even know your stomach is satisfied, but your brain is screaming to continue eating? When you know from experience that if you want to lose weight, you must exercise enough to be earning 500 calories back a day because that's the only way you can eat enough to be able to stay in a deficit, because otherwise you are feeling like you are starving all the time? I HATE being this size, being this heavy, but I also HATE being forced to eat less than 2000 calories a day, too. It just doesn't satiate me at all, and I don't know what to do about it.
I'm apparently not active enough. And I do have so much trouble these days getting myself to do much. My housework slides, my sewing projects slide, even folding my laundry and putting it away slides. I resent how much time of my life my job takes and how much of my life is spent doing something I don't enjoy because I have to; after dedicating 9 hours a day to my job, then another 2 for chores that must be done, and trying to get in enough sleep, I simply do not have the wherewithal to force myself to do something else I hate. I resent having so little free time as it is.
And if I put everything on the chopping block just to force myself to lose weight, I end up feeling so very empty with the thought - because if I must give up everything that brings me a little joy and happiness, what kind of life is that? Must I be totally miserable my whole life so I can achieve a lower body weight?
The sad part is the things I'd like to be doing are very active things. I want to be outside. I want a small hobby farm with chickens and a milk cow and pigs. I want to spend my day making soap, chopping wood, taking care of a garden, building things outside, pruning trees. I enjoy that kind of activity, and at the end of the day, when I finally sit down and see where I've been, I feel satisfied. I'm a good tired.
But life doesn't allow for this. One day a week do I have time to do the kinds of things I like to, and many times, that day is taken up doing the chores that had to be put off the rest of the week. My job and life circumstances don't allow for the hobby farm lifestyle for me. And I find myself when the work day is over without any energy to even do little things, let alone the projects I truly want to be doing. It's like sitting all day at my computer for work, even when I pop up as much as I can, still just sucks all the energy out of me, so that by the time evening gets here, I'm spent.
My husband is very sympathetic and supportive as much as he can be. But he can't diet for me, and he can't exercise for me. He has his own battles to face, and as much as he wants to, he can't fight mine for me.
I KNOW what it takes to lose the weight, and inside, I'm quailing at the thought of having to do it again. And that's the problem. I desperately want this weight off and want to keep it off. But I've been down before and I can't win the plateau fights. I've never made it to the top of the mountain, and it is so extremely disheartening to have made it as far up it as I did FINALLY after fighting to lose weight for 20 years, and find myself tumbling back down the hill again. I'm laying bruised and cut and scratched and aching on that rocky barren slope looking up that sharp escarpment that I had spent so much time and energy clawing my way up, and the thoughts of having to start it all over again are so disheartening and discouraging and just plain exhausting.
I don't want to stay this weight; I want to finally win that battle and keep it. But I can't find the strength to win, and I don't know what to do to muster that strength. Because the thoughts of having to give up everything to lose weight isn't sustainable either. Being miserable isn't sustainable. So how do I make this work?
Life would be so much easier if I could just quit eating period.......5 -
Perhaps some counseling or therapy could help you sort things out? I don’t know your insurance situation but sometimes it’s available in free clinics too.3
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I agree with Yoolypr….maybe you do need some counseling or a nutritionist or a psychologist…..it would not hurt to look into it…I have dealt with severe depression and the heavier I got, the worse the depression became….I remember that your family was not really supportive about your dieting…you really need to take care of yourself…my daughter is 39 and extremely overweight…I have cried,bribed,nagged, and begged for her to eat healthier but it does no good….for now I am leaving that fight alone and worrying about myself…when she finishes her day at school and comes home she is exhausted….mentally and physically….she has no energy and no desire to count calories, weigh or measure anything….it is taking a toll on her health, her marriage, and her family life….her husband has given up on her losing weight and when she does try to diet he is no longer supportive….my husband is a saint!…last week I told him I was done with the yo yo dieting and if I didn’t snap out of my “ poor me” that I was throwing the towel in and I was going to stop torturing myself by depriving myself of eating what I want to…I was ( and am ) so tired of everyday being a struggle….he asked if I really wanted to just give up and I said no that I want to continue stumbling along my journey….so I picked myself up and took a deep breath and figured I might as well do this once more!….you know you can do this….I know you can, too…2
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It's not as if I woke up one morning and everything changed.
Chopping block, to me, is not just "no longer doing things I currently like". It's more a general attitude that everything is up for review and re-consideration. Especially the stressors that are blocking you from moving forward.
And yes, at various points I DID consider finding work that would involve more movement. Though in the end I didn't and just changed some other things instead.
I'll give you an "easy" answer on how to restart.
Look at how many calories a lightly active to relatively active BMI 27 person of your height and one year older than you currently are would be consuming to maintain their weight. About BMR * 1.5 level (1.4 to 1.6). sailrabbit has the numbers.
Forget extra exercise. Forget doing things you don't want. Forget what you believe to be the only ways to lose weight. Because the "I stopped dieting" part is where we lose the battle and re-gain the weight. Stop worrying about where you were (Connie). It is done. You are where you are today. Some things are bad about today. I bet you some things are quite good too!
Now, just get out your Tetris skills and start planning the most filling, satiating, satisfying food days that you can for that person with that level of caloric maintenance. For the day, the week, the month.
You are not dieting. You are maintaining... at the future you level. And you are learning what and how much you can get away with... while eating at that maintenance level.
It is NOT a minimization problem of what can I stop consuming. It is a MAXIMIZATION problem: what can I FIT in my new maintenance budget!
If it is a substantially more than a 750-850 Cal decrease from your current maintenance then we may need to tweek that intake up a bit and increase your initial target BMI to say 30.
If it is less than a 250 Cal decrease from your current maintenance then we may need to tweek that intake down and decrease your target BMI to say 25 or even lower.
But beyond that... I don't care that you won't be losing at 99.9lbs a week.
I care that in a year from now you will be making choices that you will be able to see yourself making long term. Within a caloric budget that will have you noticeably healthier than where you are today.
And that you will be able to continue on to a second year at that level... because you will, hopefully, have figured out how not hate every minute.
and then a third...
6 -
I'll give you an "easy" answer on how to restart.
Look at how many calories a lightly active to relatively active BMI 27 person of your height and one year older than you currently are would be consuming to maintain their weight. About BMR * 1.5 level (1.4 to 1.6). sailrabbit has the numbers.
Forget extra exercise. Forget doing things you don't want.
Now, just get out your Tetris skills and start planning the most filling, satiating, satisfying food days that you can for that person with that level of caloric maintenance. For the day, the week, the month.
You are not dieting. You are maintaining... at the future you level. And you are learning what and how much you can get away with... while eating at that maintenance level.
It is NOT a minimization problem of what can I stop consuming. It is a MAXIMIZATION problem: what can I FIT in my new maintenance budget!
A year from now you will be making choices that you will be able to see yourself making long term. Within a caloric budget that will have you noticeably healthier than where you are today.
And that you will be able to continue on to a second year at that level... because you will, hopefully, have figured out how not hate every minute.
and then a third...
PAV, that is probably the best advice I've ever read on the topic of how to get started and stay started.
This is exactly right! Daily life becomes a fun tetris puzzle - how much yummy, delicious, nutritious food can I possibly shoehorn into my daily calorie allowance? What savvy swaps can I make to get more bang for my buck? It's an endlessly entertaining conundrum!It is NOT a minimization problem of what can I stop consuming. It is a MAXIMIZATION problem: what can I FIT in my new maintenance budget!
And yep...the chopping block metaphor works for me too. Everything was up for evaluation - what aspects of my life/diet/exercise was I prepared to tweak / augment / diminish / substitute / compromise / initiate / abandon? Where would I be willing to change and adapt, and where would I mulishly draw my lines in the sand? (cauliflower-crust pizza) 4 -
Such inspiration on a Friday morning!2
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However, I truly do not think I'm lightly active. Before, I was using sedentary numbers and only adding back about half of my exercise calories, and I was barely getting the 2 lbs a week I was expecting. And right now, I'm not getting regular exercise and sitting way too much because of my desk job. Later this summer, when I can finally get back outside, I might shift to being lightly active, but right now, I truly do think I'm sedentary.
Right now, at 307 lbs, to maintain my current weight, my goal would be 2,600 calories a day. For my height and age, I have to get to 180 lbs to get close to 27 BMI. Maintenance at that weight for sedentary is 1,900 calories.
So I could set myself at my current weight for sedentary to eating 1,900 calories, which is 1 1/2 lbs a week loss rate right now.
My brain is fighting against that idea right now, but prudence is saying, its not that much of a difference from a 2 lb/wk rate. So I suppose I can give it a try. that does buy me an extra 400 calories a day from what I'm eating right now.
Then the next obstacle is figuring out how to control the brain hunger, because my brain is already loudly protesting the serving sizes I'm giving it to stay within limit, and I have yet to find anything that will satiate the brain drive.
And having to build every meal I want to eat into MFP is mentally exhausting for me right now; the tetris puzzle that I enjoyed working so much in 2020 is right now exhausting. I suppose I've had too much stress in the last 18 months, and its taking its toll. Between losing my best friend, my beloved cat, my mentor and an uncle in less than a year, then finding out last week that my favorite choir director from college who was such an inspiration for me has also passed away, to the typical money stresses of rising prices plus limited income plus just the state of the world as it is, I could say my stress levels are high. The husband does help - having his support has been a HUGE help, even if he can't understand just how it is he helps
But its still just mentally exhausting.
I really, really, REALLY wish I could afford to take a year long sabbatical, but my salary is the main for us, and with the bills and such, I can't afford to take that kind of time off. *sigh* At least I'm working from home; that does help a bit.4 -
The intent behind the discussion above is not just to help select a rate of loss.
The idea is to change your focus from making choices on how to diet to making choices on how to permanently change your way of eating.
If NOT permanently -- because believe you me, even though I set out to make things permanent the only things permanent is that things will change including personal likes, dislikes, and even what feels filling, satiating, and satisfying, all these things will change over time in truth.
But the firm establishment of "permanence" is being done to take out the sense of time and to take out the dependence on short term results as long as the overall direction is good.
And to convince yourself to start making long term choices you feel you can make indefinitely. Not just "dieting" choices. But permanent NUDGES towards where you want to be in the future.
To NOT be at: I am going to eat this yukky substitute pasta to lose weight today. But to be at: "hey I haven't had beetroot spaghetti for a while now. Maybe I will make that tomorrow"--without even thinking of non beetroot spaghetti as a goto option.
(Bella don't read about the death of spaghetti here, you will have a heart attack! I will throw you a line though: I love eating asian noodles in soup -- including nice noodles believe it or not! )
I used to laugh at countries coming up with 5 year master plans--esp since they never seem to work out well for them... Then again: "the five-year plan may be too inflexible to follow. But it is too useful to get out of our heads" https://www.milkenreview.org/articles/the-5-year-plan 2 -
My 5 year plan was simple: do things I see myself doing long term.
Can I log my food every day over the next 5 years and care for myself more than I used to? Yup. Good.
Can I run or swim for 5 years? You got-ta-be-joking!
Can I walk around more than not at all for 5 years? Yup. Good.
Can I decide that I will not give up but just make the choices I will need to in order to adjust and keep going over the next five years? Yup. Good.
Let's get going then.3 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »However, I truly do not think I'm lightly active. Before, I was using sedentary numbers and only adding back about half of my exercise calories
MFP, specifically, has a "known defect".
If you're setup as sedentary on MFP: DEDUCT 1.25*BMR Calories*time of exercise from your exercise total to arrive at your approximate actual net calories predicted according to the formulas for that exercise. If you eat "MFP full value" - "1.25*BMR", you would be eating back 100% of the NET exercise calories.
If you're setup as lightly active the value to DEDUCT would be 1.4*BMR to arrive at a NET value as predicted by research.
MFP should be doing this automatically. It doesn't. It only does this with an EXTERNAL tracker. With an external tracker it handles this correctly. As long as the tracker is a Fitbit. Possibly a garmin. It doesn't do a good job with an Apple watch.
And then there would be your individualized correction beyond that because not everyone tracks EXACTLY at the best fit curve values that are being used by the various models!
You can start screaming now!
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@bmeadows380 We are the same age. I did a weird experiment the other day, trying to add the weight from all the fluctuations I had since becoming an adult.
The number that emerged in the end was approximately 412kg, - or in your weird imperial measurements..er..a little over 900 pounds.
I started googling the equivalents then, you know, for "good fun". 900 pounds is apparently the equivalent of an Arabian riding horse. Or a newlywed tiger couple, a grand piano, a polar bear (in the spring). A female tiger shark, or four full size double door refrigerators. Those with the ice maker thingys.
This is the amount of weight that I have gained or lost in the last 25 years. Pretty cool eh? Well, at some point a couple of years ago, I realized that I had to stop this from happening.
But the thing is, eating is not like smoking or drinking, where you have the option to quit. You can't. You have to eat, each and every day. Until the day you die. Therefore, what you said about life being so much easier if you could stop eating is very true. And also patently impossible.
What to do then? Well, for me, what seems to work - at least for now - is the realization that time WILL pass regardless of what I choose to do with it. I can keep doing the same things that made an adult hippo butt-cheek pass through me over the years, or start doing something different.
It really doesn't matter if it takes time, or effort. So what? Seriously, it does not. You simply try to make an infinitesimally better version of you today, then the version you were yesterday. Time will do the rest. There will be ups or downs, surely. And maybe you are not going to like the process very much, for a time.
But, at the end of the day, do you have anything better to do with YOUR time?
When viewing it like this, I think that motivation, optimism or even a jolly good attitude are unimportant and trite. What you simply want is discipline and time. Time is there (again, whether you like it or not), and you know for a fact that you can discipline your puny brain, dominate it even. You know it because you have done it before, again and again and again.
So off you go then, do it again. See you in the funny papers!8 -
Don’t even want to calculate how many pounds I’ve lost and found over these many years! What Dante says is totally correct for me. What has worked is daily effort and course correction. I’m not perfect or close to goal but sooooo much better off and healthier than I was three years ago.
Yes it’s slow and yes it isn’t easy every day. But most days I can handle making a good TRY. Time is going to pass anyway.5 -
In the 27 years between 1993 and 2021 I lost 288 lbs and gained 325 lbs. Thus ending up 37lbs higher than when I started.
It taught me that for me I can't simply bury my head in the sand and ignore the problem in the hope that it'll go away or resolve itself. Because if I'm not actively, purposefully, mindfully and determinedly managing my weight, I gain weight. Sometimes rapidly, sometimes slowly, but I never just stay the same. And that's simply unacceptable for me, if I want to be healthy.
What I'm striving for is to achieve the state of grace whereby not managing my weight is simply unthinkable. The way that not brushing my teeth every day is unthinkable. The way that not taking a shower or bath is unthinkable. The way that not having cervical smear tests and mammograms is unthinkable. The way that not eating fruit and veg and drinking water is unthinkable. The way that not taking the dog for a walk is unthinkable.
Failing to manage my weight isn't yet unthinkable for me, but I'm getting closer. That's the holy grail.6
