bullying resulting in suicide

Grimmerick
Grimmerick Posts: 3,342 Member
edited October 2024 in Social Groups
Should teens that target and bully certain children be held in some way accountable if the teen they bully commits suicide and names them as their main tormentor?
«1

Replies

  • SiltyPigeon
    SiltyPigeon Posts: 920 Member
    Herbert Spencer called that "Survival of the Fittest".

    Not to trivialize this very serious topic, but this reminds me of when people blame McDonalds or their Significant Other for MAKING them fat. No. YOU made YOU fat.

    The "bully" child didn't pull the trigger, the "victim" child chose to pull the trigger. Where were their parents, teachers, and mentors?
  • FearAnLoathing
    FearAnLoathing Posts: 4,852 Member
    Herbert Spencer called that "Survival of the Fittest".

    Not to trivialize this very serious topic, but this reminds me of when people blame McDonalds or their Significant Other for MAKING them fat. No. YOU made YOU fat.

    The "bully" child didn't pull the trigger, the "victim" child chose to pull the trigger. Where were their parents, teachers, and mentors?

    ^^this
  • BrettPGH
    BrettPGH Posts: 4,716 Member
    I disagree.

    You can't compare it to "McDonald's made me fat!" People choose to go to McDonald's. No one chooses to be bullied.

    I think bullying should be punished in very harsh ways in schools. I believe teachers need to start doing better jobs. They know who's getting picked on and who's doing it. It's past time they stopped letting the vicious little *kitten* get away with it, regardless of how important their parents may be or how well they play football.

    Now as far as this specific issue, I don't see much point in retroactive punishment. The damage has been done. A child killed themselves because of constant torment that no one took the time to stop. Nothing is going to make that ok after the fact.
  • FearAnLoathing
    FearAnLoathing Posts: 4,852 Member
    Should teens that target and bully certain children be held in some way accountable if the teen they bully commits suicide and names them as their main tormentor?

    And whose to say the teens didnt have so much other crap going on in their lives it didnt force them to become hyper sensitive to someone in school calling them stupid.So basicly they kill themselves state in their note Sally called me names and this other teen should be punished an possibly have a charge against them that will follow them for a long long time.
    Heres the thing kids have always bullied,but its just recent times we are seeing so many suicides from it. That jjust leads me to believe there are other factors coming to play here
  • VeganInTraining
    VeganInTraining Posts: 1,319 Member
    In a way I agree with the "McDonald's made me fat" argument but I also agree with Brett that we chose to go to McDonalds but don't chose to be bullied. Regardless of situation the person who comitts suicide chose that path, they did not chose their situation but they did chose their means out. I think that the children who are named as their tormentors do need to be punished but not as if they are responsible for the death. Action needs to be taken against these children (or sometimes adults) BEFORE a suicide is comitted. Not to get all "slippery slope" but there are a number of things going on that would make someone chose death, we can't hold everyone who is named in a suicide letter responsible for that death.
  • kennethmgreen
    kennethmgreen Posts: 1,759 Member
    Heres the thing kids have always bullied,but its just recent times we are seeing so many suicides from it. That jjust leads me to believe there are other factors coming to play here
    Good point. Bullying has always gone on. But I do think teachers are less likely to stop it now. Teachers are becoming less and less involved in calling kids out, holding kids accountable, etc. for fear of disciplinary action against them (losing their job, lawsuit).

    While it's true that a bully doesn't cause a bully victim to commit suicide, a bully can certainly cause that bully victim a lot of physical and psychological torment, which could lead to the victim's decision to end his or her life. So, I'd say yes, bullies should be held account for the *bullying* - but not for the suicide. The only person responsible for suicide in the one who does the act. I know that this point can get murky when dealing with young kids and parents (ex: parents behavior drives kid to suicide - who is ultimately responsible?) But I think you still have to hold people accountable for the actions they themselves have committed. Doesn't mean bullies or terrible parents are off the hook, just means they shouldn't be directly blamed for the actions of another.

    We are evolving as a society to a point where no one is at fault. Because everyone is.
  • jamk1446
    jamk1446 Posts: 5,577 Member
    I think there's a difference between being hypersensitive and being truly bullied. I watched a news report about a teen suicide, the parents were aware and tried to help their child just ignore it but it just escalated over the course of a couple of years. They also talked to the school about helping control the harrassing kids but the school just kind of shuffled their feet and didn't really do anything. They didn't have the means/ opportunity to switch to another school and this kid apparently saw no way out. They interviewed several students, everyone knew this kid was relentlessly picked on, both in person and online. The problem I see is that there were so many people involved and case by case you'd have to examine parents, teachers, peers both accused and witnesses, and the victim themself to see what part they may have played in it. Who do you really go after?

    I agree there needs to be more done in schools. There's a zero tolerance policy toward drugs and weapons in schools, why isn't this included? I don't mean to imply teachers and schools should take on full responsibility for ending this, but better policies would help I think.
  • sarah_ep
    sarah_ep Posts: 580 Member
    I also believe that violence and social media has contributed to bullying/humiliation for certain students. We see on the news that kids are luring and ganging up one on kid, beating them up, then posting a video of it on you tube. More and more students are being targeted on social networking sites.

    Bullies will always be there, but I do believe that in certain aspects it has become worse than before.
  • I_give_it_2_u_str8
    I_give_it_2_u_str8 Posts: 680 Member
    If it was my kid who died, yes. But if it was my kid who tormented then no.

    Jk.

    As usual, with these types of questions, you need to have experienced this to be more understanding. Luckily I never went through this, so I can't relate. But I can imagine it would be rough on the victims parents.

    Justice is rarely fair to both parties
  • I think as a society we are to quick now to point fingers and say its "his/her" fault. I don't think bullying is a harmless thing, but usually there are other factors that push the person over the edge. Bullying is just part of the whole picture. I many of the cases I have read about, the person also has other emotional things such as being bi-polar etc. Many have been abused by other people, including but not limited to, parents and other family members. I don't think you can wrap it up neatly and point a finger at someone and say it is all their fault because you bullied this person in gymn class!
  • solpwr
    solpwr Posts: 1,039 Member
    Heres the thing kids have always bullied,but its just recent times we are seeing so many suicides from it. That jjust leads me to believe there are other factors coming to play here

    One of the other factor is now, with the advent of the Internet and Media, in recent times we are seeing suicides because they are being reported and underscored by the Media. Our media is fast to grab on to sensational topics more than ever, and anything that has to do with Social Media is huge. Conventional Media is collectively becoming less relevant. So some kid gets outed on Facebook instead of at school; the Cops get wind of this, make an issue of it, NBC grabs it and runs with it.
    50 years ago my aunt had a kid when she was 15. Religious family, huge scandal, aunt gets pulled from school so her schoolmates wouldn't chew her up and spit her out.
    Now what happens? Scandal now comes from finding out some Kid Y is doing it with Teacher X, fellow kids treat her like crap on the Internet, parent doesn't know to do the equivalent of "pull them out of school" because they have no clue about what their kid is doing on Facebook.

    The kid is culpable for not handling the issue correctly. Depression or other issues notwithstanding.
    The parents are culpable for not tuning in to the kids lives.
    The bully is culpable.. etc etc.
  • kapeluza
    kapeluza Posts: 3,434 Member
    I disagree.

    You can't compare it to "McDonald's made me fat!" People choose to go to McDonald's. No one chooses to be bullied.

    I think bullying should be punished in very harsh ways in schools. I believe teachers need to start doing better jobs. They know who's getting picked on and who's doing it. It's past time they stopped letting the vicious little *kitten* get away with it, regardless of how important their parents may be or how well they play football.

    I agree completely but I think the child or children involved in the committing the bullying MUST learn a lesson and must be punish. They can't go through life thinking it's ok to bully people.
  • Krizzle4Rizzle
    Krizzle4Rizzle Posts: 2,704 Member
    I hate to be sweden and on the fence but I do see both sides of the fence. Has bullying gotten worse? Yes. Technology has made certain of that. Do people cry out bully too much? Yes. We do live in victimized society.
  • Emily102102
    Emily102102 Posts: 33 Member
    R.I.P. Ashlynn Conner your family's doing everything they can to make sure your story is heard & that people will take this more seriously than the teacher that told you "stop tattling"
  • SkateboardFi
    SkateboardFi Posts: 1,322 Member
    Should teens that target and bully certain children be held in some way accountable if the teen they bully commits suicide and names them as their main tormentor?

    And whose to say the teens didnt have so much other crap going on in their lives it didnt force them to become hyper sensitive to someone in school calling them stupid.So basicly they kill themselves state in their note Sally called me names and this other teen should be punished an possibly have a charge against them that will follow them for a long long time.
    Heres the thing kids have always bullied,but its just recent times we are seeing so many suicides from it. That jjust leads me to believe there are other factors coming to play here

    this is how i feel. i hate to be an *kitten* about it, but i ask where the parents were when this was in progress?
  • LuckyLeprechaun
    LuckyLeprechaun Posts: 6,296 Member
    I believe teachers need to start doing better jobs. They know who's getting picked on and who's doing it. It's past time they stopped letting the vicious little *kitten* get away with it, regardless of how important their parents may be or how well they play football.

    Now as far as this specific issue, I don't see much point in retroactive punishment. The damage has been done. A child killed themselves because of constant torment that no one took the time to stop. Nothing is going to make that ok after the fact.

    Sometimes we have an idea of who is being bullied, but often we do not. The kids, both the bullies and the victims, go to great lengths to keep the grownups in the dark. There are probably many clueless teachers out there, but even the good ones (like me!) can't figure out everything that's going on in the social world of kids. Also, kids are extremely dramatic, so it can be very hard to tell when little Suzie is proclaiming that she'll kill herself if her boyfriend dumps her whether she is serious.

    To address the second part, if we took the "damage has been done" approach, then we would not prosecute any murders....right? That doesn't make sense.
  • BrettPGH
    BrettPGH Posts: 4,716 Member
    Sometimes we have an idea of who is being bullied, but often we do not. The kids, both the bullies and the victims, go to great lengths to keep the grownups in the dark. There are probably many clueless teachers out there, but even the good ones (like me!) can't figure out everything that's going on in the social world of kids. Also, kids are extremely dramatic, so it can be very hard to tell when little Suzie is proclaiming that she'll kill herself if her boyfriend dumps her whether she is serious.

    To address the second part, if we took the "damage has been done" approach, then we would not prosecute any murders....right? That doesn't make sense.

    I was guilty of over-generalizing. I know there are good teachers out there who work hard to prevent this sort of thing. Just wish there were more of them.

    That's a bit of a slippery slope fallacy. Of course someone should be punished for murdering a person. But to punish someone for being mean to someone after they've died..well I just see that to be a stretch. Legally speaking. Hopefully that person will have some serious guilt, and if they don't well there's really nothing we can do for someone that twisted...
  • LuckyLeprechaun
    LuckyLeprechaun Posts: 6,296 Member
    Charles Manson didn't actually commit any murders...but we locked him up because he made horrible things happen through his influence over others. Right?

    I see this as the same. Emotionally torturing someone who is vulnerable until they choose death should be punishable by the same measure, IMHO.
  • BrettPGH
    BrettPGH Posts: 4,716 Member
    Charles Manson didn't actually commit any murders...but we locked him up because he made horrible things happen through his influence over others. Right?

    I see this as the same. Emotionally torturing someone who is vulnerable until they choose death should be punishable by the same measure, IMHO.

    Well Manson manipulated people into committing murder as opposed to suicide, but you do make a very strong case for yourself.
  • micls
    micls Posts: 234
    Kids that bully should be held accountable for that bullying. The severity of the bullying should decide the consequences, rather than the severity of the reaction to the bully. A bully could bully 2 children in the same way, one could deal with it fine, for another it could be the last straw, the bully shouldn't be treated differently for the 2 cases.

    However, I do think some of the comments about suicide being a choice are very naive. Yes, technically they choose to do it, but because of their state of mind, depression etc, they are not responsible for those choices. If you are not responsible for your choices, then it's not really a choice is it?

    That might be off topic but ignorance of suicide and the reasons for it really upsets me, particularly when you see people say things like it's selfish etc(not necessarily on this thread). I think this ignorance is a major factor in our inefficiency(certainly in my country) in addressing the issue of suicide and teaching people how to properly deal with depression and other forms of mental illness.
  • Bahet
    Bahet Posts: 1,254 Member
    Team Lucky.

    The crime they are charged with will obviously vary. It may be harassment, stalking, intentional infliction of abuse, assault, invasion of privacy, infringement of civil rights, etc. I don't think anyone is saying they should be charged with 2nd degree murder. But they most definitely should be held accountable for the extreme bullying that they are intentionally inflicting on someone else. The more intense the bullying, the heftier the charge.
  • TheRoadDog
    TheRoadDog Posts: 11,788 Member
    I hate bullies. I don't like anyone that uses their position, stature, physical size, whatever to dominate another person.

    Having said that, I don't think verbally taunting another should be a punishable crime. Committing suicide over it show some emotional problems on the part of the person that killed themselves.

    I am not diminishing the power that others can have over a young person, but, if the parent's are keeping a good communicative relationship with their child, they should see the changes and get involved before it spirals out of control.
  • Bahet
    Bahet Posts: 1,254 Member
    I hate bullies. I don't like anyone that uses their position, stature, physical size, whatever to dominate another person.

    Having said that, I don't think verbally taunting another should be a punishable crime. Committing suicide over it show some emotional problems on the part of the person that killed themselves.

    I am not diminishing the power that others can have over a young person, but, if the parent's are keeping a good communicative relationship with their child, they should see the changes and get involved before it spirals out of control.
    Just as any potential charges should depend on the level of bullying, there are different levels of bullying. Saying "You're a big poopyhead!" is bullying but is a really minor, petty level that shouldn't bother anyone over the age of 5. On the other extreme my oldest was bullied in 6th grade by a little punk brat who threatened to stab him in the neck with a fork. :mad: Oh you'd better believe I didn't let that one go! I was VP of the PTA and my son was an honor student. I not only knew the Principal and teachers, the previous year I'd turned in the former PTA President for embezzlement and followed through with police reports. King (that was punk brat's name *rolleyes*) OTOH was a future criminal in the making with a strong disciplinary problem whose family was known to the police for drugs and vandalism. Yet when I went to the Principal she basically said it was my son's word against King's. :mad: I saw King walk home from school that day and I made it crystal clear to him that if he EVER did anything or threatened my son again I'd be calling the police and pressing charges. I did talk with the police as well (I got to know the school liaison officer during the PTA scandal) and told her what happened and what the school said. She promised to keep an eye on the situation.

    We ended up moving at the end of the year. I recently heard that King (now 14) is in juvie for assault with intent to do great bodily harm to another kid. Don't even try to tell me that brats like this should get off scott free with their bullying. All that will do is encourage them to escalate. I have to wonder if the school had bothered to do anything back then if it might not have gotten him off that track he was on to juvie.
  • macpatti
    macpatti Posts: 4,280 Member
    There have always been bullies, but the nature of the bullying has drastically changed in recent decades. It's no longer just stealing lunch money or tripping someone in the dining hall. Bullying has reached new levels of harassment, torment, and ridicule on a much wider scale because of the internet. Because being homosexual is becoming more acceptable in society, children/teens are coming out at a much younger age. Many of them are being bullied for their sexual identity. This is horrendous because these kids are already going through so much. So, to me, this is much more than just calling Suzie a name and her getting her feelings hurt.

    Bullies who torment someone into committing suicide should be held accountable for their actions. To what degree should be determined by the level of harassment/bullying and the victim's other issues.
  • KimmyEB
    KimmyEB Posts: 1,208 Member
    There have always been bullies, but the nature of the bullying has drastically changed in recent decades. It's no longer just stealing lunch money or tripping someone in the dining hall. Bullying has reached new levels of harassment, torment, and ridicule on a much wider scale because of the internet. Because being homosexual is becoming more acceptable in society, children/teens are coming out at a much younger age. Many of them are being bullied for their sexual identity. This is horrendous because these kids are already going through so much. So, to me, this is much more than just calling Suzie a name and her getting her feelings hurt.

    Bullies who torment someone into committing suicide should be held accountable for their actions. To what degree should be determined by the level of harassment/bullying and the victim's other issues.

    Agree wholeheartedly with this.

    Also, yeah, I think just about EVERYONE has been picked on/made fun of/called names...but the degree of some bullying is outrageous. Teenagers gang-raping their classmates, stalking them on their way home from school, using their vehicles as weapons...it's insane. :frown:
  • southofmadness
    southofmadness Posts: 316 Member
    Herbert Spencer called that "Survival of the Fittest".

    Not to trivialize this very serious topic, but this reminds me of when people blame McDonalds or their Significant Other for MAKING them fat. No. YOU made YOU fat.

    The "bully" child didn't pull the trigger, the "victim" child chose to pull the trigger. Where were their parents, teachers, and mentors?
    Herbert Spencer called that "Survival of the Fittest".

    Not to trivialize this very serious topic, but this reminds me of when people blame McDonalds or their Significant Other for MAKING them fat. No. YOU made YOU fat.

    The "bully" child didn't pull the trigger, the "victim" child chose to pull the trigger. Where were their parents, teachers, and mentors?
    I know someone who went through this.
    I find It hard to believe that you would belive this and not put the blame on the bully. Yes, The suicidal child pulled the trigger out of desperation of a situation they could not control. Survival of the fittest huh..does that hold true if u have something i want.. I am bigger and stronger ..so I can just take it? Survival of the fittest right .. what about rape.. survival of the fittest right?.. let's not hold anyone accountable for their actions... survival of the fittest. ..
    Maybe one day when you walk out to your shed and have to try and lift up the lifeless hanging body of your child because they were bullied, harassed, and felt that death was the only way to ease the pain,you dont think about all the times u asked your child. .how was their day..or times you asked if thay were having any problems..or the school calls when you talked to the principal.. i guess u just shrug and think..huh.. survival of the fittest.
    disgusting.. I would be ashamed.
  • KimmyEB
    KimmyEB Posts: 1,208 Member
    Herbert Spencer called that "Survival of the Fittest".

    Not to trivialize this very serious topic, but this reminds me of when people blame McDonalds or their Significant Other for MAKING them fat. No. YOU made YOU fat.

    The "bully" child didn't pull the trigger, the "victim" child chose to pull the trigger. Where were their parents, teachers, and mentors?
    Herbert Spencer called that "Survival of the Fittest".

    Not to trivialize this very serious topic, but this reminds me of when people blame McDonalds or their Significant Other for MAKING them fat. No. YOU made YOU fat.

    The "bully" child didn't pull the trigger, the "victim" child chose to pull the trigger. Where were their parents, teachers, and mentors?
    I know someone who went through this.
    I find It hard to believe that you would belive this and not put the blame on the bully. Yes, The suicidal child pulled the trigger out of desperation of a situation they could not control. Survival of the fittest huh..does that hold true if u have something i want.. I am bigger and stronger ..so I can just take it? Survival of the fittest right .. what about rape.. survival of the fittest right?.. let's not hold anyone accountable for their actions... survival of the fittest. ..
    Maybe one day when you walk out to your shed and have to try and lift up the lifeless hanging body of your child because they were bullied, harassed, and felt that death was the only way to ease the pain,you dont think about all the times u asked your child. .how was their day..or times you asked if thay were having any problems..or the school calls when you talked to the principal.. i guess u just shrug and think..huh.. survival of the fittest.
    disgusting.. I would be ashamed.

    Yeah, that whole comparison to McDonald's making people fat and bullying thing is just so unbelievable to begin with. People CHOOSE to go to McDonald's. People don't have a choice when others bully them. The survival of the fittest makes no sense, either...it's a cop-out, in the case of this debate, to not hold someone accountable for their actions.
  • southofmadness
    southofmadness Posts: 316 Member
    Herbert Spencer called that "Survival of the Fittest".

    Not to trivialize this very serious topic, but this reminds me of when people blame McDonalds or their Significant Other for MAKING them fat. No. YOU made YOU fat.

    The "bully" child didn't pull the trigger, the "victim" child chose to pull the trigger. Where were their parents, teachers, and mentors?
    Herbert Spencer called that "Survival of the Fittest".

    Not to trivialize this very serious topic, but this reminds me of when people blame McDonalds or their Significant Other for MAKING them fat. No. YOU made YOU fat.

    The "bully" child didn't pull the trigger, the "victim" child chose to pull the trigger. Where were their parents, teachers, and mentors?
    I know someone who went through this.
    I find It hard to believe that you would belive this and not put the blame on the bully. Yes, The suicidal child pulled the trigger out of desperation of a situation they could not control. Survival of the fittest huh..does that hold true if u have something i want.. I am bigger and stronger ..so I can just take it? Survival of the fittest right .. what about rape.. survival of the fittest right?.. let's not hold anyone accountable for their actions... survival of the fittest. ..
    Maybe one day when you walk out to your shed and have to try and lift up the lifeless hanging body of your child because they were bullied, harassed, and felt that death was the only way to ease the pain,you dont think about all the times u asked your child. .how was their day..or times you asked if thay were having any problems..or the school calls when you talked to the principal.. i guess u just shrug and think..huh.. survival of the fittest.
    disgusting.. I would be ashamed.

    Yeah, that whole comparison to McDonald's making people fat and bullying thing is just so unbelievable to begin with. People CHOOSE to go to McDonald's. People don't have a choice when others bully them. The survival of the fittest makes no sense, either...it's a cop-out, in the case of this debate, to not hold someone accountable for their actions.

    Agreed!!
  • poisongirl6485
    poisongirl6485 Posts: 1,487 Member
    Herbert Spencer called that "Survival of the Fittest".

    Not to trivialize this very serious topic, but this reminds me of when people blame McDonalds or their Significant Other for MAKING them fat. No. YOU made YOU fat.

    The "bully" child didn't pull the trigger, the "victim" child chose to pull the trigger. Where were their parents, teachers, and mentors?

    Seriously? Uhhhh, the victims didn't MAKE bullies torture them, so it's not a valid comparison at all.

    So what if the bully child didn't pull the trigger? That's like saying that the woman got raped because she 'asked for it' by wearing a short skirt.

    This whole blaming the victim mentality bullsh*t is disgusting and ridiculous.

    Where were the parents, teachers, and mentors of the effing BULLY? Obviously the bully wasn't getting the proper support, guidance, and raising if they're torturing other kids so bad that the victims feel there's no way out except for death.

    Bullies should be responsible for their actions. If it is their actions that drove someone to harm themselves, they should be held accountable as well. Considering the victim has already paid the ultimate price with their DEATH, I don't think that's terribly unfair or too much to ask at all.
This discussion has been closed.