NROLFW + marathon + calorie deficit = ?
BerryH
Posts: 4,698 Member
It used to be so simple. Once upon a time, if you wanted to run, you ran. If you wanted muscle, you lifted. More recently, mixing it up seemed to be the healthy approach.
In the last decade or so, runners have been told to incorporate lifting into their routines to prevent injury, improve body composition, straighten posture and avoid the spindly look that often seems to be the curse of distance runners. With a place in a spring marathon, I dutifully I sought to incorporate a weight lifting routine into my programme and selected NROLFW having read so many success stories here on MFP.
However, I was rather shocked to find Lou Schuler expressly says that NROLFW and marathon training are incompatible - he says you can't train your body to lift heavy and run a marathon at the same time. In fact, reading more widely, he doesn't think much of running at all, with a variety of articles saying you're more likely to put on weight than lose it, and you're inevitably setting yourself up for injury or even death! Here's a couple of examples:
http://www.louschuler.com/blog/dead-man-running/
http://www.louschuler.com/blog/running-for-weight-loss-does-it-ever-work/
What to do? Finishing the marathon with a smile on my face in 5.5 to 6 hours (yes, I'm slow) is my main goal at the moment. Ideally I want to do this injury-free, and lifting was part of my plan for this - three sessions each of lifting and running a week. I've been feeling good on the first couple of weeks doing this.
I'm also looking to lose weight to get down to my "fighting weight" a good few months before the marathon, so I'm eating at a deficit, but in deference to NROLFW, it's a minimal one - just 250 calories or to lose 0.5 pounds a week by MFP's calculations.
Your thoughts and advice would be much appreciated!
In the last decade or so, runners have been told to incorporate lifting into their routines to prevent injury, improve body composition, straighten posture and avoid the spindly look that often seems to be the curse of distance runners. With a place in a spring marathon, I dutifully I sought to incorporate a weight lifting routine into my programme and selected NROLFW having read so many success stories here on MFP.
However, I was rather shocked to find Lou Schuler expressly says that NROLFW and marathon training are incompatible - he says you can't train your body to lift heavy and run a marathon at the same time. In fact, reading more widely, he doesn't think much of running at all, with a variety of articles saying you're more likely to put on weight than lose it, and you're inevitably setting yourself up for injury or even death! Here's a couple of examples:
http://www.louschuler.com/blog/dead-man-running/
http://www.louschuler.com/blog/running-for-weight-loss-does-it-ever-work/
What to do? Finishing the marathon with a smile on my face in 5.5 to 6 hours (yes, I'm slow) is my main goal at the moment. Ideally I want to do this injury-free, and lifting was part of my plan for this - three sessions each of lifting and running a week. I've been feeling good on the first couple of weeks doing this.
I'm also looking to lose weight to get down to my "fighting weight" a good few months before the marathon, so I'm eating at a deficit, but in deference to NROLFW, it's a minimal one - just 250 calories or to lose 0.5 pounds a week by MFP's calculations.
Your thoughts and advice would be much appreciated!
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Replies
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All I can say is that I am right there with you!
When I read that in the book, I was somewhat taken aback! I am currently in my quest doing the C25K program....in Week 5. I have had 5 knee surgeries...and while running probably won't ever be my main cardio....when I completed a 5k on Oct 22nd, 32:14....I was hooked.
Thing that surprised me in this book too is that he mentioned cardio is not even necessary! I am conflicted.
I am looking forward to reading what others think.0 -
Keep in mind that I hate cardio with a passion LOL so it is quite convenient for me that this program is not cardio oriented. I think cardio has it's place for the heart and lungs health.
Now you love to run!!!!! So I would use this program to complement your running where for me, this program is complemented by running. Do strenght training 2 times a week ....you might see less strenght increase but since what you want is to help your running, it's not really important. Take what you need and leave the rest
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Read this: http://members.rachelcosgrove.com/public/The_Final_Nail_in_the_Cardio_Coffin.cfm
For body recomp, I'd go with weight training and minimal cardio. Since running a marathon is your goal, I'd do what Yanicka suggests and make that the focus, with strength training a couple times a week. Once you've run the marathon, you can switch your focus to weight training - if that's what you want. 0 -
Thanks everyone, great ideas and insights! I have to say I agree with that "final nail" article. I hit my heaviest weight ever while training for my first marathon! Ridiculously easy to do.0
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I read dead man running, and have to say that I don't disagree with his bottom line. You wouldn't go into the weight room and immediatly start squatting 250 pounds, it would be ill advised. Actually, there are few women who should or will ever be able do that, you must be predispositioned and train properly to do it. Even people who aren't trained properly or predispositioned to do so will run, walk, or crawl their way through the finish line at a marathon, training and genetics be damned. If you're body, especially your heart, is not prepared to carry that type of load for that period of time how could it not be detrimental to a person whose body isn't properly trained. I do disagree with Lou on some aspects of cardio and find a great personal benefit to it, but I don't disagree with him that there is a danger with pushing too much, too hard, too fast.0
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This is what I'm doing - I'm training for a 15K on December 3rd with aspirations to run a half-marathon in the spring (I have no desire to run a full marathon, but that's just me!) So I do NROLW twice a week and run 3x a week (about 12-15 miles a week currently). Once I get through the half, I plan to drop my running down to two easy runs a week (I do enjoy it - so about 7 miles a week or so) and lift 3x a week. I am not at a calorie deficit though.Since running a marathon is your goal, I'd do what Yanicka suggests and make that the focus, with strength training a couple times a week. Once you've run the marathon, you can switch your focus to weight training - if that's what you want.0 -
i am currently doing 1/2 marathon training 3 days a week, nrolfw 3 days a week and have 1 full on rest day....i'm almost finished stage 1 and i'm about 5 wks into my running program....1/2 marathon is feb 26th at disney and i am not sure if what i am doing is right or wrong but for now it's working for me lol...i do zig zag calories and i eat back my exercise calories for the most part....i am NOT good at paying close attention to the macro nutrients but i do watch my calories and my sodium very closely.....hope what i'm doing keeps working....at this point, i'm not pushing to lose the weight but more improve my running time and my lifting weights...those are the things i'm "measuring" as progress versus the scale for NOW.....good luck with your programs...denise0
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i am currently doing 1/2 marathon training 3 days a week, nrolfw 3 days a week and have 1 full on rest day....i'm almost finished stage 1 and i'm about 5 wks into my running program....1/2 marathon is feb 26th at disney and i am not sure if what i am doing is right or wrong but for now it's working for me lol...i do zig zag calories and i eat back my exercise calories for the most part....i am NOT good at paying close attention to the macro nutrients but i do watch my calories and my sodium very closely.....hope what i'm doing keeps working....at this point, i'm not pushing to lose the weight but more improve my running time and my lifting weights...those are the things i'm "measuring" as progress versus the scale for NOW.....good luck with your programs...denise
You are doing exactly what I am trying to do. I'm signing up for a half marathon in March and plan to start training for it next month. Which Disney race are you running?0 -
disney princess 1/2 on feb 26thi am currently doing 1/2 marathon training 3 days a week, nrolfw 3 days a week and have 1 full on rest day....i'm almost finished stage 1 and i'm about 5 wks into my running program....1/2 marathon is feb 26th at disney and i am not sure if what i am doing is right or wrong but for now it's working for me lol...i do zig zag calories and i eat back my exercise calories for the most part....i am NOT good at paying close attention to the macro nutrients but i do watch my calories and my sodium very closely.....hope what i'm doing keeps working....at this point, i'm not pushing to lose the weight but more improve my running time and my lifting weights...those are the things i'm "measuring" as progress versus the scale for NOW.....good luck with your programs...denise
You are doing exactly what I am trying to do. I'm signing up for a half marathon in March and plan to start training for it next month. Which Disney race are you running?0 -
My two cents:
I've thought about this topic and decided to reassess my own goals for 2012, as well. I will be focusing on weight training in earnest, with increased protein intake as my primary goal until summertime, which is when I will continue to do strength training a couple of times a week (but maybe focus more on endurance and plyometrics, etc), and switch to training for a fall marathon as my primary goal.
I have run for many years (including 4 marathons) and have done many triathlons (including training for a half Ironman - 14 hours a week training schedule), and I have to agree for the most part with the article (nail in coffin article).
It is not that steady state, long endurance aerobic workouts are bad for you. They will help you lose weight if you have a lot extra to lose and they can be quite enjoyable (I love them!), but they are not going to really help you with your body fat % if that is your primary goal.
In my personal experience, it is really difficult to seriously lift weights 2 - 3x a week and keep up your running schedule if you are training for a marathon. When I've tried that in the past, my legs never felt fresh/recovered and I would have suboptimal runs and suboptimal strength training.
I will continue to run while I do NROL4W, with a long run on weekends, but I'm going to keep my long runs and races to 10 - 13 miles max, if I can continue to handle that mileage.
I definitely would not consider a significant calorie deficit, but will be eating the maintenance calorie level of my goal weight (15 lbs lighter than I am now) and eating back most of my exercise calories. We'll see how this all goes!0
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