Charity and Giving
Elizabeth_C34
Posts: 6,375 Member
I had a conversation with a good friend of mine yesterday that was really shocking.
We started discussing charity and what we see as people's moral obligations to the less fortunate.
The discussion points went a little as follows.
Me: People should give to chairty without any benefit to themselves. It is the duty of those who are priviledged enough to have money and means to give something (money, donations, or comfort) to those who do not even if it is only small.
Him: People only give to charity to make themselves feel better. They have no obligation to help anyone at any time.
Obviously, this difference in opinion comes from our different experiences in life. He grew up in a priviledged environment with money for vacations, a car, an owned home, and many of the things my single mom could never afford for us (we never had a house or a car growing up and lived in apartments and relied on public transportation). I was just wondering what others thought.
Do you consider charitable giving (time, money, comfort, etc.) a moral obligation or is it optional?
We started discussing charity and what we see as people's moral obligations to the less fortunate.
The discussion points went a little as follows.
Me: People should give to chairty without any benefit to themselves. It is the duty of those who are priviledged enough to have money and means to give something (money, donations, or comfort) to those who do not even if it is only small.
Him: People only give to charity to make themselves feel better. They have no obligation to help anyone at any time.
Obviously, this difference in opinion comes from our different experiences in life. He grew up in a priviledged environment with money for vacations, a car, an owned home, and many of the things my single mom could never afford for us (we never had a house or a car growing up and lived in apartments and relied on public transportation). I was just wondering what others thought.
Do you consider charitable giving (time, money, comfort, etc.) a moral obligation or is it optional?
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Replies
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I believe that if you can help another person, you should.
I grew up relatively privileged.0 -
I help where i can,but more so with my time than money. I grew up very poor.0
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Self-Interest vs Altruism -- a timeless debate.
In my opinion, the satisfaction that one receives from giving means that there is always at least a little self-interest in the most charitable act.0 -
Self-Interest vs Altruism -- a timeless debate.
In my opinion, the satisfaction that one receives from giving means that there is always at least a little self-interest in the most charitable act.
I would agree with this, but I think the point he was making is that this is the ONLY motivation whereas I see it as a duty to help others whenever possible. I do admit that I do feel better when I do something kind for someone else, though.0 -
Self-Interest vs Altruism -- a timeless debate.
In my opinion, the satisfaction that one receives from giving means that there is always at least a little self-interest in the most charitable act.
I would agree with this, but I think the point he was making is that this is the ONLY motivation whereas I see it as a duty to help others whenever possible. I do admit that I do feel better when I do something kind for someone else, though.
If it's a duty to help others, is it still charity?0 -
Self-Interest vs Altruism -- a timeless debate.
In my opinion, the satisfaction that one receives from giving means that there is always at least a little self-interest in the most charitable act.
I would agree with this, but I think the point he was making is that this is the ONLY motivation whereas I see it as a duty to help others whenever possible. I do admit that I do feel better when I do something kind for someone else, though.
If it's a duty to help others, is it still charity?
I think so because the sense that it is a duty is a charitable act in and of itself.0 -
In my opinion, no. Forced giving is not charity, just as gov't assistance is not charity.
If it's a duty to help others, is it still charity?
I would agree with this, but I think the point he was making is that this is the ONLY motivation whereas I see it as a duty to help others whenever possible. I do admit that I do feel better when I do something kind for someone else, though.Self-Interest vs Altruism -- a timeless debate.
In my opinion, the satisfaction that one receives from giving means that there is always at least a little self-interest in the most charitable act.0 -
In my opinion, no. Forced giving is not charity, just as gov't assistance is not charity.
If it's a duty to help others, is it still charity?
I would agree with this, but I think the point he was making is that this is the ONLY motivation whereas I see it as a duty to help others whenever possible. I do admit that I do feel better when I do something kind for someone else, though.Self-Interest vs Altruism -- a timeless debate.
In my opinion, the satisfaction that one receives from giving means that there is always at least a little self-interest in the most charitable act.
I think there's an important point to make here. I'm not saying that everyone should be forced by LAW to give, but rather that they should have an moral obligation to help others, stemming from their religion or own belief that doing for others is a part of living well.0 -
I agree that nobody has an obligation to help one another. Whether one feels that they should is up to them. Our free will (while not hurting others) is our must fundamental right.Him: People only give to charity to make themselves feel better. They have no obligation to help anyone at any time.0 -
In my opinion, no. Forced giving is not charity, just as gov't assistance is not charity.
If it's a duty to help others, is it still charity?
I would agree with this, but I think the point he was making is that this is the ONLY motivation whereas I see it as a duty to help others whenever possible. I do admit that I do feel better when I do something kind for someone else, though.Self-Interest vs Altruism -- a timeless debate.
In my opinion, the satisfaction that one receives from giving means that there is always at least a little self-interest in the most charitable act.
Agreed. Is giving and helping others a good thing to do? Absolutely. I help whenever I can with whatever I have to offer but I do not believe I should be forced to do it.0 -
I agree that nobody has an obligation to help one another. Whether one feels that they should is up to them. Our free will (while not hurting others) is our must fundamental right.Him: People only give to charity to make themselves feel better. They have no obligation to help anyone at any time.
bingo.0 -
I had a conversation with a good friend of mine yesterday that was really shocking.
We started discussing charity and what we see as people's moral obligations to the less fortunate.
The discussion points went a little as follows.
Me: People should give to chairty without any benefit to themselves. It is the duty of those who are priviledged enough to have money and means to give something (money, donations, or comfort) to those who do not even if it is only small.
Him: People only give to charity to make themselves feel better. They have no obligation to help anyone at any time.
Obviously, this difference in opinion comes from our different experiences in life. He grew up in a priviledged environment with money for vacations, a car, an owned home, and many of the things my single mom could never afford for us (we never had a house or a car growing up and lived in apartments and relied on public transportation). I was just wondering what others thought.
Do you consider charitable giving (time, money, comfort, etc.) a moral obligation or is it optional?
Helping others is the obligation of every person living. The only people who feel otherwise are those who have been helped every step of their lives and don't even realize it. They pride themselves on being self-made individuals when the truth is they couldn't provide so much as a single meal for themselves if they ever really had to.
Our modern society is a thin veneer that allows the rich to sit in comfortable positions of power. If things get much worse in this country they will learn the lesson other more mature countries learned long ago. People don't starve to death in silence.0 -
When you say it's an obligation, do you mean that they should be forced to do so, or that they ought to do so?Helping others is the obligation of every person living. The only people who feel otherwise are those who have been helped every step of their lives and don't even realize it. They pride themselves on being self-made individuals when the truth is they couldn't provide so much as a single meal for themselves if they ever really had to.
Our modern society is a thin veneer that allows the rich to sit in comfortable positions of power. If things get much worse in this country they will learn the lesson other more mature countries learned long ago. People don't starve to death in silence.
I believe that everyone ought to help one another, but do not believe that they should be forced to do so. I interpret "obligated" as "having to", being forced to do something.0 -
Doesn't it depend on the source of the obligation?
What I mean to say is, are you being obliged to give charitably from an external source, or feel obliged from within, your own sense of duty/moral code/ethics?0 -
When you say it's an obligation, do you mean that they should be forced to do so, or that they ought to do so?Helping others is the obligation of every person living. The only people who feel otherwise are those who have been helped every step of their lives and don't even realize it. They pride themselves on being self-made individuals when the truth is they couldn't provide so much as a single meal for themselves if they ever really had to.
Our modern society is a thin veneer that allows the rich to sit in comfortable positions of power. If things get much worse in this country they will learn the lesson other more mature countries learned long ago. People don't starve to death in silence.
I believe that everyone ought to help one another, but do not believe that they should be forced to do so. I interpret "obligated" as "having to", being forced to do something.
I think my choice of the word "obligated" is poor in the context of this discussion. What I mean to say is that everyone SHOULD feel the need to assist others whenever possible.0 -
When you say it's an obligation, do you mean that they should be forced to do so, or that they ought to do so?
I believe that everyone ought to help one another, but do not believe that they should be forced to do so. I interpret "obligated" as "having to", being forced to do something.
No I just meant morally. Not legally.0 -
Doesn't it depend on the source of the obligation?
What I mean to say is, are you being obliged to give charitably from an external source, or feel obliged from within, your own sense of duty/moral code/ethics?
My opinion is that we should feel an obligation to help others from our own moral center and to encourage more charity and giving as a society (note this is not to say I think there should be laws forcing people to give) especially by those who have disposable income (income in excess of their needs + savings).0 -
Self-Interest vs Altruism -- a timeless debate.
In my opinion, the satisfaction that one receives from giving means that there is always at least a little self-interest in the most charitable act.
I would take it a step farther by saying that virtually every "charitable act" is due to self-interest and real altruism is almost non-existent. I'm not saying that's a bad thing--I just think that's the way humans are made.0 -
Our modern society is a thin veneer that allows the rich to sit in comfortable positions of power. If things get much worse in this country they will learn the lesson other more mature countries learned long ago. People don't starve to death in silence.
+10 -
Self-Interest vs Altruism -- a timeless debate.
In my opinion, the satisfaction that one receives from giving means that there is always at least a little self-interest in the most charitable act.
I would take it a step farther by saying that virtually every "charitable act" is due to self-interest and real altruism is almost non-existent. I'm not saying that's a bad thing--I just think that's the way humans are made.
I would agree with this, but I think the selfishness that leads us to do good things for others and to alleviate suffering is a different variety than the selfishness that leads us to do things for ourselves to the detriment of others.0 -
Yep -- not a bad thing!
I would take it a step farther by saying that virtually every "charitable act" is due to self-interest and real altruism is almost non-existent. I'm not saying that's a bad thing--I just think that's the way humans are made.Self-Interest vs Altruism -- a timeless debate.
In my opinion, the satisfaction that one receives from giving means that there is always at least a little self-interest in the most charitable act.0 -
Aren't we already kind of forced to help out others, that's what some of our taxes pay for right, and we can go to jail if we don't pay our taxes.
On another note, I give when I know where my charity is going, I can't stand misused charity, and there is a lot of that going on these days. Makes me feel less giving. I like to make sure the people that receive my charity really need it.0 -
Aren't we already kind of forced to help out others, that's what some of our taxes pay for right, and we can go to jail if we don't pay our taxes.
Your tax money doesn't hold the door open for an elderly lady at a restaurant. It doesn't pull off the highway if you see someone stranded on the side of the road. It doesn't take a couple hours of time to help feed the homeless. Yes, some tax money goes to help others, but I'm not entirely talking about financial donations here. Even those with little or no money can do things for others throughout the day. Those things can be as simple as holding the door or as large as taking the day to volunteer.0 -
On another note, I give when I know where my charity is going, I can't stand misused charity, and there is a lot of that going on these days. Makes me feel less giving. I like to make sure the people that receive my charity really need it.
I can definitely see your point here. There is fraud involved especially with financial giving, but if you donate time instead, you get a lot more fulfillment and know that your time is going to be used how you want it. Financial donations to organizations can be tricky.0 -
Self-Interest vs Altruism -- a timeless debate.
In my opinion, the satisfaction that one receives from giving means that there is always at least a little self-interest in the most charitable act.
I would take it a step farther by saying that virtually every "charitable act" is due to self-interest and real altruism is almost non-existent. I'm not saying that's a bad thing--I just think that's the way humans are made.
I disagree. Charity is often an act of love. The same motivation as a parent has for a child, or a mate, or a sibling. Humans in my opinion are very capable of being motivated by selflessness to give.
Some people don't have that capability, some had it and lost it. But some people cherish their own ability to be selfless, and allow it to be demonstrated in the way they choose to live their lives. I'm not for one minute saying that this capability/ability is what motivates all or even a significant portion of charitable giving. I just see this point of view as too cynical.0 -
"There is more happiness than giving than there is in receiving." Bible, Acts 20:35, attributed to Jesus of Galilee.
My cockles get warmed by giving without any apparent recompense. I guess that's something you've actually felt, or haven't. I like it when it happens, and occasionally do things to get that feeling.
I guess that it could be argued that I'm doing that to get the feeling, and that selfless acts are really selfish on some deeper level. Except for the first time you did it. Because you didn't know the feeling.
Unless you intuitively knew it even before the first time. Still selfish.
Strike that. The secondary benefit is the happiness realized from selflessness. The primary benefit is the love expressed by the selfless act. Yeah I've done it, felt it, and am motivated by it periodically.
Sadly, I'm just as capable of being selfish. Usually. I believe that's the way we are made.
In my opinion.0 -
behaving charitably isn't an obligation, no matter how you define that word.
I help people when and how I see fit. I'd prefer to give away a box of clothes (because I want to) in March than be socially pressured to buy gifts for strangers at Christmas (because other people expect me to). My work really overdoes it on the "holiday charity drives". I'm currently being asked to bring in: food, toys, pajamas, and socks for various pet charities that my coworkers want to support. If I try to explain that my husband just lost his job and therefore my budget is tighter than it has been in the past, so I'd prefer not to participate right now, I'm a big mean scrooge. Because I can still afford to avoid homelessness (for now), somehow I owe something to someone. I don't like that sensation.
My work handed out grocery store gift cards the week before Thanksgiving. I thought it was such a nice way to give us a "bonus". Then they sent out an email telling us that those gift cards weren't for us - we needed to hand them over to HR who was going to go buy food for the disadvantaged. I felt duped, like why did you even give the cards to us?
Charitable acts ought to be voluntary, when social pressure and outside people make you feel like you're forced into it, it's not charity anymore. You don't get all warm and fuzzy when you're expected to do something, you feel cool when it's an unexpected gift for the recipient. (All this is IMHO, as always)0 -
I think that very rarley is someone altruisitc without some benefit to themselves, and I'm not being cynical. From personal experience I know that any time I help some one else, while I might not benefit from it financially, I do feel better about myself and happier. But I disagree that if should be viewed as a duty. Implying it is a duty takes away the individual choice to give. If there is no choice, if some one is compelled to do it by an outside force or ideology rather than for the sake of their own gratification of knowing they did good, then how is it Charity? I don't know, maybe doing it to make yourself feel good is selfish as well.0
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i dont think it should be obligatory. I give to charity but i dont really get much feelgood from it as it just goes out by direct debit every month. It does assuage guilt somewhat that im not able to volunteer my time anymore due to family commitments though, which i would much prefer to do.0
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behaving charitably isn't an obligation, no matter how you define that word.
I help people when and how I see fit. I'd prefer to give away a box of clothes (because I want to) in March than be socially pressured to buy gifts for strangers at Christmas (because other people expect me to). My work really overdoes it on the "holiday charity drives". I'm currently being asked to bring in: food, toys, pajamas, and socks for various pet charities that my coworkers want to support. If I try to explain that my husband just lost his job and therefore my budget is tighter than it has been in the past, so I'd prefer not to participate right now, I'm a big mean scrooge. Because I can still afford to avoid homelessness (for now), somehow I owe something to someone. I don't like that sensation.
My work handed out grocery store gift cards the week before Thanksgiving. I thought it was such a nice way to give us a "bonus". Then they sent out an email telling us that those gift cards weren't for us - we needed to hand them over to HR who was going to go buy food for the disadvantaged. I felt duped, like why did you even give the cards to us?
Charitable acts ought to be voluntary, when social pressure and outside people make you feel like you're forced into it, it's not charity anymore. You don't get all warm and fuzzy when you're expected to do something, you feel cool when it's an unexpected gift for the recipient. (All this is IMHO, as always)
Started to answer this and then realized you already said exactly what I wanted to say.0
This discussion has been closed.