I don't think for a second making it illegal means it will stop. I do believe it will stop some, especially ones who are law abiding citizens, which you cannot tell me are not the majority of people seeking an abortion.

And what about the ones who get an abortion that is now illegal? Jail time? Stiff fine? This question never gets answered...

My point is that pro-life doesn't have to equate to religion. When I speak out against abortion, I'm not forcing my religious views on someone. I'm speaking up for the babies who have no voice. Just as my telling someone murder is wrong doesn't have to mean I'm forcing my religious beliefs on them.

Forgive me if I'm mistaken but didn't you yourself say you've been outside of clinics praying the rosary?

Forgive me if I'm mistaken but didn't you yourself say you've been outside of clinics praying the rosary?

Our Pro-Life Club does that, yes. But we do not say one word to anyone entering the clinic. We are not trying to force our religion on the women. We are there to pray for the babies being murdered inside the building.

What I'm referring to is when I counsel girls about abortion. I don't take the approach that the church believes this or that. I take the approach that I want them to understand what all the implications are of making that choice. Of course I want to change their minds on abortion, but I'm not there to convert them to Catholocism.

Yes, I'd like to know what punishments would be and for the doctor (or whoever does it), too. I haven't heard mention of that anywhere - has it been brought up by politicians?
Are we talking capital punishment here, and for both parties since they would be considered co-conspirators in a murder? Would medical records serve as evidence for indictment? If so, what if there weren't any, since criminalized medical activities don't necessary come with paperwork?

I suppose the act of having an abortion would need to be defined as a specific crime. Is it murder? Are the physicians guilty of accessory to murder? You can't tell me if it was legally considered murder, we'd have the same number of abortions. We wouldn't.

I just don't think women should be punished for becoming pregnant unexpectedly by being forced to endure unsafe processes, when safe ones are available. By making abortion illegal, this is essentially what would be forced upon women who make this choice.

How can you unexpectedly become pregnant when it is known that there is a chance one can become pregnant when one has sex?

How can you unexpectedly become pregnant when it is known that there is a chance one can become pregnant when one has sex?

And if you drive a car there's a pretty good chance you will have a car accident at some point. Doesn't mean we say "Hey you were driving, you knew what could happen."

Once the foetus is viable without the mother's body, then, and only then, in my opinion, it gains equal, but not superior, rights to be considered.

You do realize that a fetus can survive without the mother's body for months before she is scheduled to deliver, right? So, are you saying you believe abortion is okay during the earlier stages of pregnancy, but not later?

What I am saying is that once the foetus is viable outside the womb, and could survive in reasonable expectation of health without the woman's body, then its rights ought to be considered equally. Given that the generally-accepted medical point of viability is around the six-and-a-half to seven month point (the outer limit is 23 weeks, just shy of six months, but most specialists would withold intensive neonatal care until around 26 weeks gestation, as the expectation of a positive outcome and a healthy child at this point is so low) , though, the question is fairly academic, as the overwhelming majority of abortions take place well before this point. I think it's unlikely that a woman would continue a pregnancy for six or seven months before seeking an abortion, if that was what she had decided to do, unless through dire medical necessity.

If we want to get technical the Dr would be the one actually comitting the act, the woman would be the accessory. I would say give the "Dr's" prison, and definitely some kind of penalty for the woman. I have a friend who has had multiple abortions simply because she doesn't like to use condoms and she doesn't like the pill. If it were illegal she wouldn't have done it, especially if she had to go to some quack who didn't know what he was doing

She wouldn't have done what? Had abortions? Had unsafe sex? Had sex at all? (just trying to clarify) -

I just don't think women should be punished for becoming pregnant unexpectedly by being forced to endure unsafe processes, when safe ones are available.

I know you are replying to macpatti so, my apologies but pregnancy is the outcome of sex. It's not a punishment, everyone knows that you get pregnant by having sex. If woman doesn't want to have a baby, she shouldn't be having sex. But because abortions are so readily available, I don't think women really care about that risk.

When I got pregnant I was n the pill and using condoms

I just don't think women should be punished for becoming pregnant unexpectedly by being forced to endure unsafe processes, when safe ones are available.

I know you are replying to macpatti so, my apologies but pregnancy is the outcome of sex. It's not a punishment, everyone knows that you get pregnant by having sex. If woman doesn't want to have a baby, she shouldn't be having sex. But because abortions are so readily available, I don't think women really care about that risk.

When I got pregnant I was n the pill and using condoms

Yet, those things are not 100% effective when properly used and they state so. There is always a chance of pregnancy.

I just don't think women should be punished for becoming pregnant unexpectedly by being forced to endure unsafe processes, when safe ones are available.

I know you are replying to macpatti so, my apologies but pregnancy is the outcome of sex. It's not a punishment, everyone knows that you get pregnant by having sex. If woman doesn't want to have a baby, she shouldn't be having sex. But because abortions are so readily available, I don't think women really care about that risk.

When I got pregnant I was n the pill and using condoms

Yet, those things are not 100% effective when properly used and they state so. There is always a chance of pregnancy.

There is a chance of pregnancy with anything,I know someone who got pregnant after having her tubes tied

I just don't think women should be punished for becoming pregnant unexpectedly by being forced to endure unsafe processes, when safe ones are available.

I know you are replying to macpatti so, my apologies but pregnancy is the outcome of sex. It's not a punishment, everyone knows that you get pregnant by having sex. If woman doesn't want to have a baby, she shouldn't be having sex. But because abortions are so readily available, I don't think women really care about that risk.

Haven't figured out how to quote two people at once, so this is @Regmama as well. Yes, pregnancy is a possible outcome of sex. It is still possible to become pregnant despite having taken reasonable precautions against doing so. Hormonal birth control is not 100% reliable, condoms can split, physical barriers do not always work. If you've used precautions such as these, and they happen to have failed on one of the approximately three days/month when a woman is sufficiently fertile to become pregnant, AND you actually fall pregnant, a) you've been very unlucky, and b) you have fallen pregnant unexpectedly.

The fact that so many women DO use birth control when it is available (and there are enough countries where modern prophylaxis isn't available, and alternatives are used to show that this is a worldwide concern!) is surely evidence that most women DO care about the risk of pregnancy, and take steps to prevent it. Some don't, and as I have already said, I think it is deeply irresponsible to use abortion as your preferred type of Birth control. That all said, the punishment I was referring to is not the pregnancy itself, but being forced to endure an unsafe, often unsanitary procedure if you choose to end the unexpected pregnancy, if legal, medically safe abortion has been removed as an option.

" If woman doesn't want to have a baby, she shouldn't be having sex." - Really?! I have to confess I'm rather at a loss for words here. The whole point of female contraception, and the fight for that to be legal in the first place, was that women are just as entitled as men to experience sexual desire, and to find intimacy, joy and pleasure in sex, without the fear of unwanted, unplanned pregnancy, which inevitably complicates and compromises their lives. If that point has really been missed, and we are still projecting Victorian-era views on women...I'm gobsmacked.

So as it stands now, it would be considered first degree murder, punishable usually by death or life in prison:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_punishments_for_murder_in_the_United_States

The deal is, women have to be abstinent to be 100% sure since there would be no recourse for failed birth control or bad decisions except having an unwanted pregnancy, giving the child up for adoption, or illegally seeking an abortion. I just don't know how realistic abstinence is, despite all that.

And if you drive a car there's a pretty good chance you will have a car accident at some point. Doesn't mean we say "Hey you were driving, you knew what could happen."

Sure we can. If someone is driving and has a car accident, they can't say, "Hey....I didn't think I was going to have a car accident. I tried really hard not to have a car accident". Your point is valid........for my argument. You KNEW by driving there was a risk of a car accident. The only way to know 100% you won't have one is to not drive. So, if you drive, even though you don't want to have a car accident, you'll have consequences and be responsible for the outcome. Unless you can find a doctor that will "make it go away" for you. Wait, that last part didn't fit......

Would if someone forces you by gun point into the car?

When I got pregnant I was n the pill and using condoms

I was on the pill when I got pregnant with my oldest son. Everyone knows that the only foolproof form of birth control is abstinence, so anyone who is having sex and gets pregnant had some knowledge that it could happen.

Not everybody chooses to have the sex that leads to pregnacy

When I got pregnant I was n the pill and using condoms

I was on the pill when I got pregnant with my oldest son. Everyone knows that the only foolproof form of birth control is abstinence, so anyone who is having sex and gets pregnant had some knowledge that it could happen.

Not everybody chooses to have the sex that leads to pregnacy

There's that too. Are the passionate anti-abortionists here with Rick Santorum when he said that victims of rape who fall pregnant should "make the best of it"?