[I'd also like to add that sex is a responsibility. Pregnancy is ALWAYS a risk. If you aren't prepared to have a child, you shouldn't have sex. Period. I don't want a child right now but I too am on birth control, in fact use two forms to be extra cautious. If for some reason I were to get pregnant right now. I would adjust my life accordingly and my significant other and I would do what was necessary to raise a child. As I did when I was 19 and found out I was pregnant and my life has only changed for the better. Abortion because it's convenient was never an option for me.

I guess I take issue with having to "adjust my life accordingly" because I would get pregnant despite taking multiple precautionary measures. Does that mean that married couples who aren't ready for children or don't ever want children have to live in a sexless marriage? I really don't believe that's fair.

I'm glad that having a child when you were 19 turned out to be a good thing in your life, but having a child at 22 for me isn't an option. I don't believe people should keep reproducing, but I don't try to force other women to have abortions or picket outside pregnancy wards.

Edited to Add: I can't say I really care if abortion is used "as birth control". As I've said before, I'd rather a woman have an abortion than give birth to a child that she isn't emotionally or financially ready to care for. If you're pro-choice, who cares?

Let me also say that I had my son before I had my abortion,and after I had my son I tried to get my tubes tied. I knew I couldnt handle any more children I knew that I wasnt going to straighten my life out any time soon,but every single DR refused because I was 19. Insted they put me on birth control and told me to use condoms to block stds.

If you were a guy they would have let you get a V. My ex husband had one at 21. No one ever pulled the "You're too young" card.

The deal is, women have to be abstinent to be 100% sure since there would be no recourse for failed birth control or bad decisions except having an unwanted pregnancy, giving the child up for adoption, or illegally seeking an abortion. I just don't know how realistic abstinence is, despite all that.

Unfortunately, I do not think abstinence is realistic either. But if abortion were illegal, the majority of women would turn to an alternate choice.

Agreed!

Ya,,, but in some cases that "Alternate choice" involves a coathanger.

I don't think for a second making it illegal means it will stop. I do believe it will stop some, especially ones who are law abiding citizens, which you cannot tell me are not the majority of people seeking an abortion.

I don't think for a second making it illegal means it will stop. I do believe it will stop some, especially ones who are law abiding citizens, which you cannot tell me are not the majority of people seeking an abortion.

And what about the ones who get an abortion that is now illegal? Jail time? Stiff fine? This question never gets answered...

" If woman doesn't want to have a baby, she shouldn't be having sex." - Really?! I have to confess I'm rather at a loss for words here. The whole point of female contraception, and the fight for that to be legal in the first place, was that women are just as entitled as men to experience sexual desire, and to find intimacy, joy and pleasure in sex, without the fear of unwanted, unplanned pregnancy, which inevitably complicates and compromises their lives. If that point has really been missed, and we are still projecting Victorian-era views on women...I'm gobsmacked.

Maybe I should rephrase. If a woman doesn't want to be responsible for her actions, she shouldn't be doing those actions. . It's personaly responsibility. Period. And believe me, I love sex just as much as the next person and I'm not going to give that up ( :laugh: ) but I will be responsible if my precautions don't work out.

I'd like to also add that I was living in a disgusting oen bedroom apartment, no job and a had crappy boyfriend who cheated on me when I got pregnant. The situation certainly got worse before it got better but 4 years later, I have a great job, a wonderful boyfriend, a 3 bedroom house, a new car and I have had zero funding from the government or my son's MIA father. I improved my life that much in 4 years. I'd hate to think that I would probably be in a much worse position had I not been required to get my life together.

Let me also say that I had my son before I had my abortion,and after I had my son I tried to get my tubes tied. I knew I couldnt handle any more children I knew that I wasnt going to straighten my life out any time soon,but every single DR refused because I was 19. Insted they put me on birth control and told me to use condoms to block stds.

I have had this too. A man can get a vasectomy when he pleases, but if a woman under thirty wishes to get her tubes tied, they essentially laugh in her face. They want to send you to counseling, all this other nonsense because something's just not right with you as a woman if you don't want a little "bundle of joy". Every doctor I've talked to has essentially told me that one day I'll catch the baby rabies and regret my decision. Cute, because you can birth a child when you're 14 and no one tries to talk you out of that.

Let me also say that I had my son before I had my abortion,and after I had my son I tried to get my tubes tied. I knew I couldnt handle any more children I knew that I wasnt going to straighten my life out any time soon,but every single DR refused because I was 19. Insted they put me on birth control and told me to use condoms to block stds.

I have had this too. A man can get a vasectomy when he pleases, but if a woman under thirty wishes to get her tubes tied, they essentially laugh in her face. They want to send you to counseling, all this other nonsense because something's just not right with you as a woman if you don't want a little "bundle of joy". Every doctor I've talked to has essentially told me that one day I'll catch the baby rabies and regret my decision. Cute, because you can birth a child when you're 14 and no one tries to talk you out of that.

My sister is 40 and has never wanted kids and doesn't have kids. She now gets the "You'd better really think about this, you don't have much time left." lines. She's even gotten turned down for a job BECAUSE she was in her late 30s and didn't have kids. The interviewer told her they thought she would hear her biological clock and want a baby and leave the position but they needed someone who would be there long term. Her husband, who is 41, never hears anything about how he should start to think about having kids. Just the opposite. He gets professional praise because he's able to focus on his career.

No, that is NOT my logic. What I meant is that if you do not want the *responsibility* of a baby, then you should not have sex. Many people who do not want children still have sex without getting pregnant but there is always the chance. I think those people should have to take responsibility for their actions in the case of an "accident". Everyone in the world knows that absitinence is the only 100% way to NOT get pregnant. It's common sense that sex makes babies. If you are going to have sex, you should at least acknowledge that is a possible outcome of your actions.

It's no wonder people feel no need to take responsibility for themselves in any manner of life anymore. It's like the person who sued MCD's because they got fat. I wouldn't doubt that being the case for a person who got pregnant from having sex as well.

I'd also like to add that sex is a responsibility. Pregnancy is ALWAYS a risk. If you aren't prepared to have a child, you shouldn't have sex. Period. I don't want a child right now but I too am on birth control, in fact use two forms to be extra cautious. If for some reason I were to get pregnant right now. I would adjust my life accordingly and my significant other and I would do what was necessary to raise a child. As I did when I was 19 and found out I was pregnant and my life has only changed for the better. Abortion because it's convenient was never an option for me.

I've asked this one before and never gotten an answer but it obviously needs asking again.

To everyone who says "If you aren't prepared o have a child then you shouldn't have sex. Period." I ask if you actually think that a married couple who don't want kids yet or anymore should be celibate? My hubby and I were married in 1993. We wanted to become financially stable and enjoy being married for a few years before we had kids. Should we have waited 3 years to consummate our marriage on the off chance that the pill didn't work just to please someone like you? When we decided we were ready to have kids we were blessed with 2 boys. They are now 14 and 11. Should we have not had sex this millennium since we don't want anymore? Do you really think that we should remain celibate until I'm postmenopausal? Hubby had a vasectomy 10 years ago but even those aren't 100%. Just ask my friend or her now 4yo twins who were conceived after her hubby had a vasectomy.

IMO people who say things like "If you don't want to have a baby then don't have sex." aren't living in reality. Reality is that a happily married couple will have sex more than twice (plus however many times while she's pregnant) if they only want 2 kids. My sister has been married for 11 years. She and her hubby don't want kids. By your logic she should still be a virgin.

No, that is NOT my logic. What I meant is that if you do not want the *responsibility* of a baby, then you should not have sex. Many people who do not want children still have sex without getting pregnant but there is always the chance. I think those people should have to take responsibility for their actions in the case of an "accident". Everyone in the world knows that absitinence is the only 100% way to NOT get pregnant. It's common sense that sex makes babies. If you are going to have sex, you should at least acknowledge that is a possible outcome of your actions.

It's no wonder people feel no need to take responsibility for themselves in any manner of life anymore. It's like the person who sued MCD's because they got fat. I wouldn't doubt that being the case for a person who got pregnant from having sex as well.

No, that is NOT my logic. What I meant is that if you do not want the *responsibility* of a baby, then you should not have sex. Many people who do not want children still have sex without getting pregnant but there is always the chance. I think those people should have to take responsibility for their actions in the case of an "accident". Everyone in the world knows that absitinence is the only 100% way to NOT get pregnant. It's common sense that sex makes babies. If you are going to have sex, you should at least acknowledge that is a possible outcome of your actions.

It's no wonder people feel no need to take responsibility for themselves in any manner of life anymore. It's like the person who sued MCD's because they got fat. I wouldn't doubt that being the case for a person who got pregnant from having sex as well.

Why do you put responsibility in quotes? A baby is a HUGE, 18+ YEAR commitment - is it really that ridiculous to think that some people might be hesitant to take it on? I do acknowledge the possible outcome of my actions, and I take comfort in the fact that, should my extensive precautionary measures fail, I can go to an abortion clinic as soon as I am aware of the pregnancy, because I am not ready to have a child, and it would be unfair to the child to bring them into the world when I cannot provide them with a loving home.

Again, with this logic, answer Bahet's question: Should a couple who has no intentions of procreating be expected to live in a sexless marriage?

I don't understand this logic. Why on this green Earth would you want a child to grow up with parents who would not be able to provide them with a loving, caring home?

I agree that sex is a responsibility, and I do think it is deeply irresponsible to use abortion as a form of birth control. However, I do believe that to remove the choice, or the option, from women, is misguided in the extreme. To attempt to police a woman's choice about her body and her future, and to dictate what her conscience should be, sets a dangerous precedent, and ignores the rational intellect, freedom and self-determination that is expected of and for (western, educated) women in almost every other aspect of life.

Yet about 98% of abortions are because of the "birth control" mentality. So, we are talking about a huge majority of abortions happening as a form of "birth control" 53 million US citizens have been aborted since the Roe decision, how is that a "rare" use of abortion?

" If woman doesn't want to have a baby, she shouldn't be having sex." - Really?! I have to confess I'm rather at a loss for words here. The whole point of female contraception, and the fight for that to be legal in the first place, was that women are just as entitled as men to experience sexual desire, and to find intimacy, joy and pleasure in sex, without the fear of unwanted, unplanned pregnancy, which inevitably complicates and compromises their lives. If that point has really been missed, and we are still projecting Victorian-era views on women...I'm gobsmacked.

You said that so much better than I could have. :flowerforyou: