Chivalry: take it or leave it?
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Take it!!!0
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I don't know about extreme chivalry, but politeness for sure. I wouldn't wait for the car to be opened. Before we had clickers that unlocked our car doors, guys used to use the key to open my side to get in first. That was nice. But, most of my male friends also said that was a test to see if she reached over to unlock his side as he was walking around. I always did anyway.
I like it if a man opens the door for me to go through in an establishment. I always thank them. I also always open for older people, male or female. Some old men of course want to hold it for me, but some of the doors are so heavy that I insist they go. I wouldn't expect nor wait for someone to pull out my chair or help me with my coat.
When lack of courtesy/chivalry bothers me is: elevators. Men used to always hold the door to let all the ladies in, and they used to exit last. Doesn't happen anymore. And on public transportation or in waiting areas when men or boys don't offer their seats for the elderly or pregnant women. I've been in the situation where my girlfriend and I would get up to offer our seat before a male would get embarrassed and decide to do it instead.
I was out with a male friend who would get really mad at a restaurant if the waiter asked him for his order before mine. He would give a dirty look and gesture for me to order. Most wait staff ask the lady first, but seems like lately some people do not know this anymore. lol0 -
Chivalry is not completely dead, just taken for granted and not noticed anymore because its assumed.0
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i u know any men that know how to be gentlemen, are single and not complete *kitten*, send them my way0
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I believe in it as a guy. Why wouldn't you want your significant other to feel appreciated and respected?0
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I'm from the South...men open doors, men dont sit down at a table before you do, men hold the elevator, etc etc. For me, these are not bonuses, they are natural behaviors and it would feel odd without them.0
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Wow.. seems like its a pretty good trait to have then! Good to know that all of you still appreciate it. The way some girls act when you do things like hold the door, pull out their seat.. like roll their eyes/dont say thank you makes me wonder why I bother. This kind of tacts on to the other thread about who pays on the dinner date. I think it its def the gentlemen thing to do.
I think its important to make the girl you are with feel special, safe and looked after.0 -
The thing is, when you train these things to habit (which many of us guys who were raised in the south do), it isn't like it's a big deal at all. Part of a date (aka courtship) is to demonstrate that you are willing to care for her. That may take many forms (financial, physical, emotional).
I think Jeanie put it well when she said it is actions that count. Small gestures that are a part of your mental make up are big indicators on how you'll treat the woman long-term.0 -
I love it when a guy is chivalrous. But I have to be honest that sometimes it confuses me because I find it to be so rare!
That's because we live in New England :laugh:
When I lived in South Carolina, I was in awe of how nice and gentlemanly all the boys were. I was always confused though when you went through one door and immediately had to go through a second one. I felt awkward waiting around for the guy, but invariably they'd rush through to get the second one for me. I always felt a little weird about it :ohwell:
One thing I always thought was sweet: I would rush out without a scarf a lot in the winter (sometimes I think I'd forget my head if it weren't attached) and I had two guy friends who would immediately take their scarf and wind it around my neck as soon as they saw me without one. So freaking adorable :blushing:0 -
I love it when a guy is chivalrous. But I have to be honest that sometimes it confuses me because I find it to be so rare!
That's because we live in New England :laugh:
When I lived in South Carolina, I was in awe of how nice and gentlemanly all the boys were. I was always confused though when you went through one door and immediately had to go through a second one. I felt awkward waiting around for the guy, but invariably they'd rush through to get the second one for me. I always felt a little weird about it :ohwell:
This is kind of amusing to me, Live in Massachusetts but I've spent the past 3 months in South Carolina, and was a little shocked at how rude people are down here. Particularly after everyone telling me for years how nice people were down south.0 -
So ladies, do you like chivalry?
Chivalry, yes. Chauvinistic disrespect, no. There is a difference.
I still remember the lecture he gave me when we went on our 2nd date about how he is a southern gentlemen and if I want to be with him I will let him open the door. Coming from a feminist "don't need men" background, it was quite an adjustment. In 3 years of dating plus 12 years of marriage if he was around I never opened my own door. Even double doors. Not saying he was perfect, lol, or we'd still be married. :-)
To me it's a natural order/ebb and flow. The woman respects the man as head of the house, and the man honors her having allowed him leadership in her life with his chivalrous behavior.
(and yes, I know most of the world doesn't work that way)0 -
My problem is why should I do it anymore if its not acknowledged by the receiver. It gripes me to no end to hold a door or pull out a chair for or give up my seat to a person and they act like its my job,duty or I owe it to them. Not to say its a dieing art but if there is no mutual respect or gratefulness then guys are not gonna do it anymore.
This takes me back to my college days, where I was more of a feminist type (until I met my ex). If a man opened the door for me, I would grab it and say "I got it," or purposely use the other door. I cringe now even typing that. Now I'm so accustomed to guy doing stuff like that I smile and say thanks. I guess back then, I didn't want men treating me like a weak little lady, as if I had something to prove. Not anymore.0 -
My problem is why should I do it anymore if its not acknowledged by the receiver. It gripes me to no end to hold a door or pull out a chair for or give up my seat to a person and they act like its my job,duty or I owe it to them. Not to say its a dieing art but if there is no mutual respect or gratefulness then guys are not gonna do it anymore.
This takes me back to my college days, where I was more of a feminist type (until I met my ex). If a man opened the door for me, I would grab it and say "I got it," or purposely use the other door. I cringe now even typing that. Now I'm so accustomed to guy doing stuff like that I smile and say thanks. I guess back then, I didn't want men treating me like a weak little lady, as if I had something to prove. Not anymore.
This is why they say chivalry is dead ... and women killed it I still try but if I don't get a thank you or hell if I open the door for you close it behind you and walk over to my side is it to hard for you to push the button on your door that unlocks my side so I can just hop in and go. So its a two way street really sure normally the guy does more but the woman also needs to hold up her end of things. If this isn't done then sure I'll stop trying on my end as well.0 -
i like it. i also like when guys know to walk closest to the street when we're walking outside. i know his body isn't going to over any protection if a car jumps the curb, but it's still a sweet gesture.
and i always say thank you when doors are opened and chairs are pulled out. and i also unlock doors if they arent already0 -
I was out with a male friend who would get really mad at a restaurant if the waiter asked him for his order before mine. He would give a dirty look and gesture for me to order. Most wait staff ask the lady first, but seems like lately some people do not know this anymore. lol
Strictly speaking, the waiter/waitress is correct in looking to the gentleman to convey the lady's order. It seems a touch archaic now, and is rarely observed, but traditionally, a gentleman orders for a lady.0 -
I was out with a male friend who would get really mad at a restaurant if the waiter asked him for his order before mine. He would give a dirty look and gesture for me to order. Most wait staff ask the lady first, but seems like lately some people do not know this anymore. lol
Strictly speaking, the waiter/waitress is correct in looking to the gentleman to convey the lady's order. It seems a touch archaic now, and is rarely observed, but traditionally, a gentleman orders for a lady.
Actually, that's not what's happening. Many waiters and waitresses in the US don't know the proper etiquette. I've seen them open the wine in the back, pore a full glass without asking if the guest wants to taste it, and bring out a salad for one guest without offering bread to the table. I've actually coached several servers through a process because nobody had ever offered to train them. Sad but true.0 -
I was out with a male friend who would get really mad at a restaurant if the waiter asked him for his order before mine. He would give a dirty look and gesture for me to order. Most wait staff ask the lady first, but seems like lately some people do not know this anymore. lol
Strictly speaking, the waiter/waitress is correct in looking to the gentleman to convey the lady's order. It seems a touch archaic now, and is rarely observed, but traditionally, a gentleman orders for a lady.
Actually, that's not what's happening. Many waiters and waitresses in the US don't know the proper etiquette. I've seen them open the wine in the back, pore a full glass without asking if the guest wants to taste it, and bring out a salad for one guest without offering bread to the table. I've actually coached several servers through a process because nobody had ever offered to train them. Sad but true.
Ah, so it's a general issue of etiquette rather than a specific behaviour. Just thought I'd mention it, as it may have been the case. To be fair, it's typically only in very good restaurants here that the 'gentleman orders' rule is observed, but the other things you mention are still fairly consistently applied. Sounds like a few restaurants need to get their act together.0 -
is it to hard for you to push the button on your door that unlocks my side so I can just hop in and go.
A lot of people keep mentioning this... I remember doing this back in my college days, but c'mon... in this age of key fobs does anyone really go through the gesture of unlocking the other door anymore? When the guy unlocks my door, his is already unlocked... lol!0 -
So ladies, do you like chivalry?
Chivalry, yes. Chauvinistic disrespect, no. There is a difference.
I still remember the lecture he gave me when we went on our 2nd date about how he is a southern gentlemen and if I want to be with him I will let him open the door. Coming from a feminist "don't need men" background, it was quite an adjustment. In 3 years of dating plus 12 years of marriage if he was around I never opened my own door. Even double doors. Not saying he was perfect, lol, or we'd still be married. :-)
To me it's a natural order/ebb and flow. The woman respects the man as head of the house, and the man honors her having allowed him leadership in her life with his chivalrous behavior.
(and yes, I know most of the world doesn't work that way)
I agree with all of this. The last guy I dated seriously was very well-raised in that regard. He opened all my doors (car, restaurant, etc.). He pulled out chairs, ordered my food and drinks, and he even insisted on walking upstairs behind me and downstairs in front of me in case I fell. I loved it. I felt like I was special to him and that he respected me, and it made me want to treat him with greater respect as a man.
I liked what you said about the man being the head of the house and that his behavior and treatment of the woman should honor her for trusting him with that role and having faith in his leadership and decision-making abilities. That's pretty much exactly how I see it. I know that's very midcentury, but that's how I was raised.0 -
is it to hard for you to push the button on your door that unlocks my side so I can just hop in and go.
A lot of people keep mentioning this... I remember doing this back in my college days, but c'mon... in this age of key fobs does anyone really go through the gesture of unlocking the other door anymore? When the guy unlocks my door, his is already unlocked... lol!
LOL, well I got a new car a few months ago, and it has sensors to unlock the door. (As long as you have the fob in your pocket, you can open the door by grabbing it) The thing is, if I open the drivers door it doesn't open the rest of the doors. When other people are in the car, I have to consciously use the back door or something so the other doors will open.
So maybe his car is like mine. 0 -
Chivalry all the way!0
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I will for sure take chivalry - and OMG I found it here in CA!!!! *faint*
It is so hard to find a man who knows how to treat a lady with dignity and respect. Then again, some women do not know how to treat a man the same (yes it goes both ways).
Kids today - ugh can I smack them?? If I did or acted like they do my momma would have beat my butt until it was bright red! Get so tired of the kids today with their sense of entitlement and its all about them! Will they get over themselves already?0 -
I will for sure take chivalry - and OMG I found it here in CA!!!! *faint*
It is so hard to find a man who knows how to treat a lady with dignity and respect. Then again, some women do not know how to treat a man the same (yes it goes both ways).
Kids today - ugh can I smack them?? If I did or acted like they do my momma would have beat my butt until it was bright red! Get so tired of the kids today with their sense of entitlement and its all about them! Will they get over themselves already?
Their parents are the ones who need to be smacked. Kids have to be taught what is and is not proper behavior, and, unfortunately, most kids today don't have anyone who is willing to teach them.0 -
The only thing I do find a little uncomfortable is when I ask one friend in particular if he wants to do something, and he insists on paying for us both. I appreciate that he is a gentleman, and rather more financially secure than I am, but it does make me a little hesitant about inviting him to do things, as it feels a bit unjust, somehow, knowing that he will want to pay for something I've invited him to do, simply because I'm female.
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I have a friend like this too and I try to sneak and pay first. LOL0 -
The only thing I do find a little uncomfortable is when I ask one friend in particular if he wants to do something, and he insists on paying for us both. I appreciate that he is a gentleman, and rather more financially secure than I am, but it does make me a little hesitant about inviting him to do things, as it feels a bit unjust, somehow, knowing that he will want to pay for something I've invited him to do, simply because I'm female.
I have a friend like this too and I try to sneak and pay first. LOL
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Perhaps have a few outings together where you say you already have tickets to something would he like to come along, (then if he says yes, go buy the tickets) or cook for him or something to "even it out".0 -
This is kind of amusing to me, Live in Massachusetts but I've spent the past 3 months in South Carolina, and was a little shocked at how rude people are down here. Particularly after everyone telling me for years how nice people were down south.
Maybe it's because you're a guy? I definitely think most of the "Southern hospitality" is complete hypocrisy, but generally I found that the men from the South were always exceptionally polite to me. The women....eh....it was a toss-up :laugh:0 -
it feels a bit unjust, somehow, knowing that he will want to pay for something I've invited him to do, simply because I'm female.
But what if he gets intrinsic enjoyment out of paying, even though you invited? I know it sounds crazy, but check out the book His Needs Her Needs for more on stuff like this.0 -
This is kind of amusing to me, Live in Massachusetts but I've spent the past 3 months in South Carolina, and was a little shocked at how rude people are down here. Particularly after everyone telling me for years how nice people were down south.
Maybe it's because you're a guy? I definitely think most of the "Southern hospitality" is complete hypocrisy, but generally I found that the men from the South were always exceptionally polite to me. The women....eh....it was a toss-up :laugh:
Completely possible, but I was talking just in general from observing people, not just what was directed at me.
Edit: Though I should say I found Charleston to be far more polite than the rest of the state.0 -
it feels a bit unjust, somehow, knowing that he will want to pay for something I've invited him to do, simply because I'm female.
But what if he gets intrinsic enjoyment out of paying, even though you invited? I know it sounds crazy, but check out the book His Needs Her Needs for more on stuff like this.
A paraphrase from the man in question, when I tried to pay for lunch..."My great aunt always said that she would know the civilised world was coming to an end when people stopped dressing for dinner, and gentlemen allowed a lady to pay. The first? Well, that depends on context. The second? Not happening on my watch!"
Don't get me wrong, I understand his reasons, appreciate the chivalry, and love the way he behaves with me and other females (I'd marry him in a nanosecond if it wasn't for the fact he has a girlfriend!), but it does make me pause before inviting him to do something. You're probably right that he takes pleasure and/or a masculine validation from paying - I just have to find a way of balancing things out a bit, as someone else suggested. The ticket idea might just work. Sneaking to pay first has worked precisely twice in the last two and a half years - either he's caught me at it and stopped me, or he's got there first!
Eleven years of college (two undergrad, two masters degrees and a professional studies programme...), and boys who were just as broke as I was, and not necessarily brought up to be chivalrous has made it a bit difficult to re-adjust to a social world where the men are mostly very well-mannered and solicitous of the comfort of the women around them, and particularly to someone who takes generosity to such a level.0 -
so i'm late in this conversation and haven't read back to catch up with the posts but I would take chivalry in a heart beat and i usually won't even go out on a date with someone who is not a gentleman to me or the people around him.
so fellas if you are in the area and know how to be a gentleman all the time (not just to try to get into someone's pants), let me know lol.
also side vent: i hate how men cannot appreciate a female who carries herself as a lady. guess that helps you seperate real men from tools but its annoying!0
This discussion has been closed.