I also had a TTD about a year now. I'm on both Synthroid (T4) and Cytomel (T3). I started out with jus the Synthroid right after the surgery and about a few months later, I was still getting severe Hypothyroid symptoms. It was so horrible, deeply depressed, fatigue, and gained over 40 pounds. And I suggested my endo to add Cytomel and I have felt the difference right away. Less then one week I was out of the funk and getting my life back. My levels are still off though because my TSH is supressed but with normal T3/T4 levels. Still working with my endo to figure out why but it could be just the factor that I was Soooo Hyper before the surgery that it could have supressed it. I still get fatigue on some days but its not horrible and the weight has been a struggle to lose, it just takes longer.

As far as Armour, alot of endo/doctors do not prescribe it because the batches are never the same and that can effect your levels month to month. So, doctor should be okay with prescribing Cytomel T3 based on symptoms. At least give a try and test your levels withing 2 months to see the effect. I can assure you, especially since you also had a TTD, the cytomel will change your life. You will start to feel like YOU in no time!!!!

I wish you the best! Don't stop until a endo doctor prescribe you T3!

I have had huge success with Armour. After being on Synthroid for 15 years with miserable weight gain, fatigue, and a myriad of other symptoms, I found a Naturopath who agreed to transition me to Armour. I have taken statins for High Cholesterol (Lipitor) and High Blood Pressure meds for 15 years also -- doctors told me that the cholesterol and HBP were "genetic" and I would be on these meds for the rest of my life. I also had high levels of Reverse T3 which slowed my metabolism to a crawl. So no matter how well I ate or how much I exercised, I could not lose a pound.

After 3 months on Armour, my cholesterol is normal, my blood pressure is normal, the Reverse T3 is gone and I've lost 10 pounds.
I am off of all medications now except for Armour.

Armour is not unstable -- that's a publicity stunt by the pharmaceutical companies and doctors that want to push Synthetic T4 out into the market. Up until the late 1970s Armour was the one and only medication for hypothryoidism and had been since the turn of the century.

I had my doctor add cytomel (I didn't request it, she actually gave it to me when my TSH was spiked to around 25 immediately following my second thyroid - completion- surgery). I went in crying my eyes out, and really struggling to form thoughts and just survive a day. Phew, thought I was going nuts. She only let me have it for ten days though, and I felt amazing, I was crushed when I never heard back from them after asking why they would not just leave me on it. (this doc also told me I was making it all up in my head- but she gave it to me) I asked for it again and got a lower dosage 10 mcg per day, got myself a 90 day supply, and have upped my own dose... I called the doc yesterday and said hey you might want ot get me in there becuase I;ve upped my dose, I am feeling much better, and I want to continue with it. HA-HA, when you tell them you're taking it on your own that gets them interested in getting you an appointment. I asked for the cytomel again because I had stil been having really extreme fatigue and sad, blah, listless days...I was also swelling in my ankles and wrists and the tops of my feet- which was starting to frighten me.
You do know that you have the right to fire your endo and seek another doctor... tell them to lower synthroid if they have to and give cytomel to supplement it. Just be honest with them and say "look, I have not had the quality of life I was told I could expect when taking these pills instead of having my actual thyroid gland. Can't we try something else, please? If not, please send me a referral for someone who is more concerned about my symptoms than my numbers on a chart or my co-pay being met."

This also gets them interested in helping you.... Good luck! Let me know how it goes!

My doctor added in T3 (Cytomel) to my regimine. My labs had been showing normal for quite a while, but I was still having some major Hypo symptoms with just the Synthroid. After the Cytomel was added all those symptoms went away, and I was me again.

But then - everyone is different. Some people don't agree with Cytomel, just like some won't do well on Armour.

found this online:
Possible Synthroid Side Effects
Like all levothyroxine products, Synthroid can have side effects. Synthroid side effects may be caused by under-replacement (too little of the active ingredient levothyroxine) or over-replacement (too much levothyroxine). If you are not getting enough levothyroxine, you may continue to experience hypothyroidism symptoms. If you are getting too much levothyroxine, you'll experience hyperthyroidism (overactive thyroid) symptoms.

Side effects* of over-replacement can include:

Partial hair loss may occur rarely during the first few months of Synthroid therapy, but this is usually temporary.
Rapid or irregular heartbeat
Chest pain or shortness of breath
Muscle weakness
Nervousness
Irritability
Sleeplessness
Tremors
Change in appetite
Weight loss -- {REALLY??? I don't think so :grumble: }
Vomiting
Frequent bowel movements
Excessive sweating
Heat intolerance
Fever Impaired fertility
Decreased bone density
Changes in menstrual periods

You may want to check out the site www.stopthethyroidmadness.com. It is a wonderful site with information for natural thyroid medication. It even has a letter that you can print out to take to your doctor to help "convince" your doctor to switch you to a natural thyroid medication. As far as the levels of thyroid medication varying from batch to batch is no long true in NTs. It was that way many, many years ago, but with the advances in science that is no longer the case. I take NatureThroid, which is similar to Armour. I do not do well on the synthetic thyroid meds. I am so thankful I have a doctor who listens to his patients and treats based on how you are feeling and not based on what the bloodwork says. Good luck with your doctor. If that doctor doesn't listen, then I'd find one who will. The better educated you are, the better chance you have of them listening. I would love to hear how it goes.

For a while I took only Cytomel. It gave me a lot of blood sugar crashes, and I kept forgetting doses later in the day. I got switched to synthroid, and I never felt any better. Then I found another new doctor and she's now got me on Armour. We've had to seriously decrease my dosage. It's like the synthroid did absolutely nothing for me! She said that she is the exact same way. Some people do not respond to T4 treatment, but once they get more complete thyroid supplementation (T1, T2, T3 and T4, aka, Armour) they do a lot better. This is her experience as a doctor and as a patient.

I switched from Syntroid to Armour after reading about it here. I researched it thoroughly online. ( You can do the same-print out the important info and take it to your appt. also.)Then I emailed my Dr. and without hesitation he called my Pharm. immediately.
I haven't felt this good in years.. Energy, sleeping better and so much more.
But, everybody is different.
My Pulmo DR. said they used to use it in the early 60's or 70's. He has No idea why Dr.s stopped using it.
If you can't convince your Dr. then find another Dr.
Good Luck
Shirley

My doctor called me yesterday after leaving him a message, he was on vacation for 2 weeks and agreed to change me to Armour. He said not to discount the labs as they are important. I agreed but said I was still having symptoms. (He is not an advocate of Armour.) He said he would start me with 1 grain and test and go from there. He seems to be willing to work with me. We'll see how it goes.

Ginny:flowerforyou:

My doctor called me yesterday after leaving him a message, he was on vacation for 2 weeks and agreed to change me to Armour. He said not to discount the labs as they are important. I agreed but said I was still having symptoms. (He is not an advocate of Armour.) He said he would start me with 1 grain and test and go from there. He seems to be willing to work with me. We'll see how it goes.

Ginny:flowerforyou:

Ginny - not sure what dose of Synthroid you were on.... but one grain of Armour is a good start. One grain - 60 mcg. I got my prescription in 30 mcg tablets and take one early - like 4am. and one around 5pm. Spreading out the dose throughout the day helps me to feel better all day.

If he didn't give you 1/2 grain tablets - just cut it in half and spread it out. Oh, and Armour works best if you chew it up, then douse it down with a glass of water. It helps it to get into your system better.

The other thing though is not to stay on too low a dose for too long --
I found this on stopthethyroidmadness.com:

MISTAKES THYROID PATIENTS AND THEIR DOCTORS MAKE:

STICKING WITH TOO LOW A DOSE. For a myriad of reasons, this happens often. Have one of these been true of you?
1) being held on a starting dose (such as one grain, less, or slightly more) longer than two weeks
2) being bound by the directives of a TSH-obsessed doctor
3) failing to get a raise of desiccated thyroid until the “next labwork”, which can be weeks and months away
4) following an inaccurate Synthroid-to-Armour conversion equivalence chart
5) being forced to lower a dose due to a high free T3 with continuing hypo symptoms, which is a sign of low cortisol or low iron, not too much desiccated thyroid, or
6) being afraid to go higher!

For example, a doctor has his patient make her way up to 1-2 grains, notices great improvements, but also has continuing problems. OR, a patient makes her way up to 2 grains and notices NO improvement. And it’s common to think that desiccated thyroid is not working! In reality, it may simply mean a patient isn’t on enough! It can also be very wise to check adrenal function, since low cortisol can prevent thyroid hormones from making it to the cells….and you will still feel bad.

BEING ON AN OPTIMAL DOSE and FEELING GREAT, BUT BEING LOWERED DUE TO THE TSH LAB RANGE Similar to #2 above, this is the person that made his/her way up to an optimal dose, or the dose that simply made them feel very good and removed symptoms, but having the dose lowered by a doctor who saw your suppressed TSH (i.e. below the range). This is doctor who thinks that ink spots on a piece of paper tell the truth more than your symptoms! When on an optimal dose of desiccated thyroid (or being very near), you WILL have a suppressed TSH without being hyper.

THINKING YOU ARE ON TOO MUCH BECAUSE OF HYPER-SYMPTOMS Yes, a doctor can guide you to go too high with desiccated thyroid and you’ll have hyper symptoms. You would then want to decrease your amount. But even more common is having hyper-like symptoms (anxiety, shakiness, fast heart rate, etc), especially on doses lower than 3 grains, because of underlying low-functioning adrenals (i.e. not enough cortisol), or even a low Ferritin or iron—-each and/or both of which can be quite common in hypothyroid patients.

FAILING TO MULTI-DOSE Occasionally, some patients take their natural thyroid all at once in the morning and say they do fine. But, most individuals will notice much better results by multi-dosing. For example, a person on 3 1/2 grains might take 2 grains in the morning, one grain by noon or in the early afternoon, and 1/2 grain by mid-afternoon. Multi-dosing better imitates what your own thyroid would be doing, and gives you the direct T3 throughout the day when you most need it. Spreading out the Armour also prevents stress on your adrenals.

SWALLOWING NATURAL THYROID WITH ESTROGEN, CALCIUM or IRON. Estrogen, calcium and iron bind some of the thyroid hormones and makes them unusable. So, it’s wise to avoid swallowing these at the same time you swallow your natural thyroid.

FAILING TO CHEW UP OR PULVERIZE ARMOUR OR NATURETHROID Both have too much cellulose due to reformulation, which binds the desiccated thyroid. Instead, you need to chew them up to release the desiccated thyroid, or use a mortar and pestle. You can also add honey or sugar to increase absorption

TAKING DESICCATED THYROID BEFORE DOING LABWORK Bad idea! T3 starts moving up after you take desiccated thyroid, giving a false high serum result. And your doctor freaks out when he sees the lab result, and directs you to lower your thyroid. Patients have learned to take their normal desiccated thyroid the day before, then do labs the next morning.

STAYING ON A STARTING DOSE TOO LONG. The key to understanding this mistake is with the word “starting dose”. When first starting on any natural desiccated thyroid product, it can be wise to start on one grain or less, which is lower than you will ultimately need. Why? To help your body adjust to the direct T3. BUT, patients have found it UNWISE to stay on that low dose much longer than 2 weeks without raising. Why? Because hypothyroid symptoms can return with a VENGEANCE due to the feedback loop between the hypothalamus, pituitary and thyroid gland, i.e your hypothalamus gland senses the addition of desiccated thyroid (thinking the thyroid sent it), then sends a message to the pituitary gland, which in turn sends a message to the thyroid gland to stop producing, making you even more hypothyroid than you began.

THINKING DESICCATED THYROID IS NOT WORKING WHEN SOMETHING ARISES. Desiccated thyroid contains direct T3, and the T3 can initially aggravate certain conditions. When this happens, doctors have had patients stop the increase of their desiccated thyroid, or decreased it to give the reaction time to go away. An example is Mitral Valve Prolapse–one patient noted that with each raise, she had palps. But they went away within the first 5 days after each raise. One gal got itchy when she got on desiccated thyroid, and was so determined to blame Armour that she got off, got back on Synthroid, and is STILL itchy.

ADDING T4 or T3 to DESICCATED THYROID, OR EVEN TOO SOON! Most patients report that they do perfectly fine on desiccated thyroid alone, especially when they have taken the time to raise and find their optimal dose, which is often over 3 grains and has removed all hypothyroid symptoms. But some patients and their doctors feel the need to add either synthetic T4 or T3 to their natural thyroid dose to achieve a certain result . The challenge is in not adding it too soon, otherwise you miss out on the benefits of the T4, T3, T2, T1 and Calcitonin. Instead, if they had simply upped their desiccated thyroid more, they might have gotten the results they desired. Occasionally, a patient may suspect they have thyroid hormone resistance when 5-6 grains of desiccated thyroid is not doing the job. At this point, they add T3, or Cytomel, to their dose, to achieve results. Additionally, since most patients on an optimal dose of desiccated thyroid only achieve a mid-range T4, some are adding a small amount of T4 to raise the level.

GOING UP WITH DOSAGES WAY TOO FAST. This was observed a few years ago: a doctor put his patient on desiccated thyroid. One grain, then 2 grains, 3 grains, 4 grains, 5 grains, then 6 grains. But the problem was that he did this within 4-5 weeks! OUCH. He started to find himself majorly overdosed with symptoms to match (high heart rate, sweating). He had to stop for a few weeks… then resume again at one grain and do it the right way–approx. 1/2 grain raise every two weeks, slowing down in the 2-3 grain area (and for some, slowing down on even lower amounts).

PAYING TOO STRICT ATTENTION TO LABS. As mentioned above, thyroid patients have noticed that doctors tend to treat lab results rather than treat PATIENTS. Labs are interesting, and labs are good adjuncts to the full spectrum of dosing. BUT… SYMPTOMS are IMPORTANT. For example, patients have learned that even if there is a very suppressed TSH, and/or a high free T3, yet symptoms continue, it’s important to look at one’s adrenal function, since low cortisol can make the free T3 go high while symptoms continue.

BELIEVING THAT DESICCATED THYROID IS “HARD TO REGULATE”. Totally and completely false. Patients have found nothing hard about desiccated thyroid. You simply raise it high enough to rid yourself of symptoms, which in turn gives you a free T3 towards the top of the range and a suppressed TSH. Believing that desiccated thyroid is hard to regulate is akin to believing that tricycles are hard to ride.

THINKING THAT SYNTHETIC T4 ALONG WITH SYNTHETIC T3 (aka Cytomel), OR THE COMBO OF THE TWO (Thyrolar) IS JUST AS ADEQUATE AS NATURAL DESICCATED THYROID Adding synthetic T3 to your Synthroid, Levoyxl or other T4 brands is definitely a step up from being on T4 alone! We applaud that addition. But….to say it’s equal to being on desiccated thyroid t’ain’t so. Too many patients who have been on the synthetic combo, and switched to desiccated thyroid, report that the results were even better. That’s impressive. Besides, with desiccated thyroid, you are getting exactly what your own thyroid gives you–T4, T3, T2, T1 and calcitonin. Makes a difference.

THINKING YOUR DOCTOR KNOWS MORE THAN YOU DO. Granted, we have great respect for education, and we appreciate the knowledge that a medical school trained doctor brings to our health quest. It’s important! BUT… that education does NOT take away from our OWN knowledge and our OWN intuitive sense about our bodies… about what works, about what doesn’t work… no matter what that doctor says. This website, and even more the STTM book, represents just that! So, patients have discovered that the doctor-patient relationship is best as a TEAM, with respect going BOTH directions. Doctors are not “gods”. They can and DO make mistakes in judgment. TEAMWORK counts. Find a good doc!!

Hello,

I'm picking up on Terri's informative post, sooo helpful as always.

Who has switched from combo T4T3 to Armour?
What do you have to say about the change?
Should I consider it?

Your opinions would be much appreciated.

Armour is not unstable. Docs will tell you that because they don't want to prescribe it. It has been used for over 100 years. My aunt has been on it since she was 12 and she will be 75 in February! I had a total thyroidectomy due to thyroid cancer in March of 2004 and was of course put on synthroid and that stuff did nothing for me! In 2009 I asked my doctor for armour and it was like night and day! I felt so much better! Then my dose was increased to 180mg and I really feel better! I started working out and lost 40lbs! Don't believe the doctors when they tell you it's unstable! It's no different than a synthetic form when it comes to stability. They tell you that because they are ignorant about it and a lot of docs get some kind of kickback from the makers of synthroid so of course they want to prescribe only synthroid. For a lot of doctors it's about the money and you have to be your own advocate. I am sure glad that I have an awesome doctor that I don't have to fight with to get armour.