Boston qualifying for female
grinch031
Posts: 1,679
So my wife wants to qualify for Boston over the next year or two. We're trying to establish how realistic this goal is based on where she's currently at. Anyways she will need a 3:35 based on her age.
For some background, she has been running long distance for about 2 years, running in two halfs and two fulls and a couple shorter distances. Her Halfs were roughly 2:00 and 1:45, and fulls were both in the 4:40s. She has been running 35-40 mpw for the most part when training for these races. As you can see, she has improved a lot in her Half times, but full times were unchanged. But what I see with her full times is that her training runs were at too slow a pace, averaging 9:30-10:00 with her running partner, and very little tempo or speed training runs. So instead of training for the best she can do on her own, she trained so that both her and her partner could finish together.
The reason I think she's capable of Boston qualifying in the near future is because she can run a 5K in an under 7:00/mile pace if she really tries, and I think her Half time shows her potential. Also I'm aiming for a similar finish time, but I'm male so it wouldn't qualify me, so I think I have a good idea of how much effort it will take to get there. My wife seems to be pound-for-pound more talented than me based on the women's qualifying standards. And finally, she has been blessed with the ability to stay injury free all this time. I think she needs to increase her volume some (like upper 40s), but also to start doing more training runs at a higher intensity and add some speed training.
Anyways I found a sub-3:30 training plan that I think might help her get there, what do you think?
http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/racing/rws-garmin-ready-marathon-schedule-sub-330/2764.html
For some background, she has been running long distance for about 2 years, running in two halfs and two fulls and a couple shorter distances. Her Halfs were roughly 2:00 and 1:45, and fulls were both in the 4:40s. She has been running 35-40 mpw for the most part when training for these races. As you can see, she has improved a lot in her Half times, but full times were unchanged. But what I see with her full times is that her training runs were at too slow a pace, averaging 9:30-10:00 with her running partner, and very little tempo or speed training runs. So instead of training for the best she can do on her own, she trained so that both her and her partner could finish together.
The reason I think she's capable of Boston qualifying in the near future is because she can run a 5K in an under 7:00/mile pace if she really tries, and I think her Half time shows her potential. Also I'm aiming for a similar finish time, but I'm male so it wouldn't qualify me, so I think I have a good idea of how much effort it will take to get there. My wife seems to be pound-for-pound more talented than me based on the women's qualifying standards. And finally, she has been blessed with the ability to stay injury free all this time. I think she needs to increase her volume some (like upper 40s), but also to start doing more training runs at a higher intensity and add some speed training.
Anyways I found a sub-3:30 training plan that I think might help her get there, what do you think?
http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/racing/rws-garmin-ready-marathon-schedule-sub-330/2764.html
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I BQ-ed in 2006 (although I didn't run it - one marathon was enough for me!) with a 3:32 at NYC. I did a lower-mileage training plan but it was intense. I did a lot of Yasso 800s (look 'em up on Runner's World), tempo runs, and all of my long runs were under a 9 min/mi pace. I also did weight training on easy run days.0
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I'm currenly training for the San Diego RnR marathon this June with a stretch goal of BQ'ing (though I'm 39, so my qualifying time is 3:45). I ran my first marathon in January at 3:58:31 and I think knocking the 13 minutes off my time is a stretch (though I've only got 6 months between my marathons). I'm obviously no expert, what with 1 whole marathon under my belt, but knocking 1 hour off her time sounds quite ambitious... I'm interested to hear what some of the more experienced runners have to say about ideas for training, etc. All that being said, there's no reason not to give it all she's got and go for it! The worst case scenario is that she gets a PR under her belt, whether she BQ's or not (which is what I'm hoping for in June)!
Best of luck to her. :flowerforyou:0 -
I'm currenly training for the San Diego RnR marathon this June with a stretch goal of BQ'ing (though I'm 39, so my qualifying time is 3:45). I ran my first marathon in January at 3:58:31 and I think knocking the 13 minutes off my time is a stretch (though I've only got 6 months between my marathons). I'm obviously no expert, what with 1 whole marathon under my belt, but knocking 1 hour off her time sounds quite ambitious... I'm interested to hear what some of the more experienced runners have to say about ideas for training, etc. All that being said, there's no reason not to give it all she's got and go for it! The worst case scenario is that she gets a PR under her belt, whether she BQ's or not (which is what I'm hoping for in June)!
Best of luck to her. :flowerforyou:
Believe me, for the average marathoner who gets a 4:40s marathon, I wouldn't count on them dropping to 3:30s so easily. Its only because of her 1:45 Half time and ability to run sub-7 for several miles that I differentiate her from the rest. I think its really a matter of focusing on better quality training more than anything. She's very disciplined, but I think she limited herself by choosing to train with the intention of reaching a goal that was below her potential.
Good luck on your race as well.0 -
I can run in the 7's for 5K. 10K PR was a 8"15 pace. I hit 1:58 at a 1/2 at the beach. Im hoping for 1:55 here in the hills for this coming up 1/2.
I have yet to even break 4:30. 4:34 has been my best. 5:30 was my worse
Do I think your wife can do it..well of course she can..probably however not. BQ is uber competitive for a reason. Even if she got her time she better be under that. Your not in with that time. They allot so many spots to each age group so if most of the group is under that the time goes down.
Plus: You assume she is under training. Maybe however she cant hold that pace after a certain mileage. My fall is mile 16. I start to plummet. The marathon is hard to "run" for a reason. Your talking not only training and staying healthy but also the race day has to all line up correctly.
Your asking to shave off alot of time in alot of miles. Thats asking for injuries. Its also like weightloss. WHen your at your heaviest you lose the most. When you get to your goal weight the weight stops. Running is the same. It wasnt hard to go from 13 min miles to 9 min miles. But getting around 8 min miles and holding that for 26.2 is ALOT. .
Of course she needs to go for it. Your saying 1-2 yrs. You need to find a "easier" plan and just try to sub 4 in a marathon this yr..then go from there. You have the time.0 -
I can run in the 7's for 5K. 10K PR was a 8"15 pace. I hit 1:58 at a 1/2 at the beach. Im hoping for 1:55 here in the hills for this coming up 1/2.
I have yet to even break 4:30. 4:34 has been my best. 5:30 was my worse
Do I think your wife can do it..well of course she can..probably however not. BQ is uber competitive for a reason. Even if she got her time she better be under that. Your not in with that time. They allot so many spots to each age group so if most of the group is under that the time goes down.
Plus: You assume she is under training. Maybe however she cant hold that pace after a certain mileage. My fall is mile 16. I start to plummet. The marathon is hard to "run" for a reason. Your talking not only training and staying healthy but also the race day has to all line up correctly.
Your asking to shave off alot of time in alot of miles. Thats asking for injuries. Its also like weightloss. WHen your at your heaviest you lose the most. When you get to your goal weight the weight stops. Running is the same. It wasnt hard to go from 13 min miles to 9 min miles. But getting around 8 min miles and holding that for 26.2 is ALOT. .
Of course she needs to go for it. Your saying 1-2 yrs. You need to find a "easier" plan and just try to sub 4 in a marathon this yr..then go from there. You have the time.
You do bring up a good point about needing to not only qualify, but have a good enough time to get a spot over the other competitors. I see that being a major issue for the men, but I think she has a better chance because Boston is already under-represented by women, which is why they are giving them an extra 30 mins that gives them quite an advantage when you look at level of effort needed to qualify.
The wife is going for a sub-4 hour marathon next month. I already think she can accomplish that feat given that she's been running her long runs at under 9 minute miles. So from there its pretty much another year of increasing weekly mileage and adding more speed training. I do think its about being under-trained, because she was able to develop to where she's at now very quickly, so she couldn't have maxed out her potential yet. Certainly not on the 35 or so mpw she has been averaging.0 -
WIth a 1:45 half at 35 miles a week I'll bet she could reach the BQ time by doing nothing more than increasing mileage, even without speedwork. I think that 40s is too low though. Several months at 60+ would probably do the trick if she can stay injury free at 60+. It is probably doable in a year if she can build and sustain the mileage.0
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WIth a 1:45 half at 35 miles a week I'll bet she could reach the BQ time by doing nothing more than increasing mileage, even without speedwork. I think that 40s is too low though. Several months at 60+ would probably do the trick if she can stay injury free at 60+. It is probably doable in a year if she can build and sustain the mileage.
60s isn't really an option due to time constraints. I'm aiming for 3:35 myself next month so we'll see how it goes for me. I know I have a slight physiological advantage but her progression so far has been similar to mine, although I have always done more speed training and she did a little bit higher volume than me.0 -
Clearly the tools are there, she just needs to do the work. For those of us (myself included) who aren't hitting our potential, we just need to step up our games training-wise.
3:35 might be a walk in the park or it may take a few years. Bottom line, the marathon is a tricky distance to race.
I think with the new qualifying standards now fully in place, we will now see all runners who qualify being able to enter the race.0 -
Arc - I hope you're right about the new qualifying standards and all runners who qualify being able to enter the race.
Scott - Totally agree that 40 mpw is too low for a 3:35 marathon. Running slower high mileage weeks will be much more benefial than speedwork.
What marathon is your wife running to qualify?0 -
Arc - I hope you're right about the new qualifying standards and all runners who qualify being able to enter the race.
Scott - Totally agree that 40 mpw is too low for a 3:35 marathon. Running slower high mileage weeks will be much more benefial than speedwork.
What marathon is your wife running to qualify?
She's doing one next month just to see where she's at, but certainly not trying to qualify there. Then doing the Marine Corps in the fall, but we are doubtful she'll be good enough by then. So we're hoping maybe the Shamrock marathon next March if training goes well.
I haven't seen real anecdotes that running high mileage without speed training leads to great success. It seems all the good runners do both high mileage and speed training. Although one might argue that since she is already capable of running a Half at the correct pace, that high mileage alone can allow her to run the Full at that pace without additional speed training. But again, that's out of the question so we don't have any choice but to focus on a more speed-oriented training plan with lesser miles (~45ish). We know they work, because there are countless anecdotes of people getting good times with under 50 mpw.0 -
I think everyone has their own training plan that works for them. I run between 50-55 mpw (I did run 65 to 70 for a few weeks but that was too many miles) and just ran a 3:35 marathon. I may race a 5K and 10K once during the training, but that is all the speedwork I do. My shorter runs are between 8:45 and 9:00 and my weekend long run is around 9:00 to 9:10.0
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...she can run a 5K in an under 7:00/mile pace...
If this is indeed true, your wife would be better served by doing nothing more than increasing her mileage. There is NO need for any speedwork right now. Nothing more than the random fartlek run throughout the week or some MP miles on occasion.
Like others have mentioned, the more miles the better. She already has the SPEED to run a 3:35 marathon, she simply lacks the ENDURANCE to carry her speed for 26.2 miles. Endurance is built by running a lot of miles at an "easy" pace. This pace for a 3:35 marathoner is likely in the neighborhood of 8:45-10:00. There are physiological adaptations that are being made in the legs by running all these miles. Running the miles faster than necessary defeats the purpose and also increases the likelihood of injury.I haven't seen real anecdotes that running high mileage without speed training leads to great success.
Here's mine. And no, I'm not a rarity in this regard. For my past two marathon training cycles, I've done ZERO speed training and have still managed to run the marathon 60-90 seconds faster than my average training pace. I just ran more in training. The marathon is a 99%+ aerobic event. By simply focusing on this aspect of my fitness (by running lots of easy miles), my marathon times are continually dropping without the need to incorporate speedwork just yet.It seems all the good runners do both high mileage and speed training.
You're seeing the end result. It's likely that the mileage was built gradually before incorporating any significant speed training. Mixing an increase in mileage with quality is usually disastrous in the form of an eventual injury. It's necessary to build the mileage slowly before incorporating the speed training.
With your wife's current situation, running more will have the largest impact on her next marathon. Is it possible that she'll get there by running 40mpw with a lot of high intensity runs? Well sure, it's possible. But she'd be far better served by simply bumping the mileage up.0 -
So my wife wants to qualify for Boston over the next year or two. We're trying to establish how realistic this goal is based on where she's currently at. Anyways she will need a 3:35 based on her age.
For some background, she has been running long distance for about 2 years, running in two halfs and two fulls and a couple shorter distances. Her Halfs were roughly 2:00 and 1:45, and fulls were both in the 4:40s. She has been running 35-40 mpw for the most part when training for these races. As you can see, she has improved a lot in her Half times, but full times were unchanged. But what I see with her full times is that her training runs were at too slow a pace, averaging 9:30-10:00 with her running partner, and very little tempo or speed training runs. So instead of training for the best she can do on her own, she trained so that both her and her partner could finish together.
The reason I think she's capable of Boston qualifying in the near future is because she can run a 5K in an under 7:00/mile pace if she really tries, and I think her Half time shows her potential. Also I'm aiming for a similar finish time, but I'm male so it wouldn't qualify me, so I think I have a good idea of how much effort it will take to get there. My wife seems to be pound-for-pound more talented than me based on the women's qualifying standards. And finally, she has been blessed with the ability to stay injury free all this time. I think she needs to increase her volume some (like upper 40s), but also to start doing more training runs at a higher intensity and add some speed training.
Anyways I found a sub-3:30 training plan that I think might help her get there, what do you think?
http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/racing/rws-garmin-ready-marathon-schedule-sub-330/2764.html
I also have goals of qualify for Boston in the next 1-2 years and my first marathon was 4:55 and my second is hard to judge, the official time came in around 4:50 but it was the Goofy in Disney so I had run a 1/2 the day before plus stopped and waited in line at all the characters along the course for photos...my next marathon is the Marine Corps marathon this October and I am contemplating trying a new training plan than others I have done in the past - I met another runner who also ran a similar pace as me for her first full (4:55) and by her third full she was running Boston!! - she said she read the book "Run less Run Faster" and followed that training and and by her second marathon (Chicago) she had finished around 3:35 qualifying her. Depending how I am feeling as it gets closer to the 20 or 16 week training period I may follow the books training program and see how I do - worse case senario I PR!0 -
Bottom line, when it comes to running, training, racing and kicking *kitten*, each of us is a "sample size of one."
All that matters is what we each find works best for us. FWIW - I found I like running too much to follow a "run less days, quality only" type of program. I like to run 6-7 day a week, with a nice mix of speed, long and easy runs.0
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