Need a shoulder to cry on

funkycamper · May 2012

OK, I've been at this since around Thanksgiving and things are not going and I am lowering my calories. Long story as short as possible.

I started here at MFP last August. I was already down about45# from my heaviest weight of 237 which was lost over a couple of years by just eating a bit less and movinga bit more. When a back injury had finally healed enough for me to do more than walk, I decided to ramp things up and go back to the gym and really watch my eating.

I began taking various classes like zumba, cardio kickboxing, and lifting weights. I get bored easy so I would also swim, walk/ jog, and other stuff occasionally to mix things up. Like so many, I started at 1200 calories and did not east my exercise calories. While I slowly lost 20# over almost four months, I was quite fatigued and finally decided to follow advice to eat back exercise calories. I also raised my net to just above my BMR so I was eating 1450 + exercise calories so, most days, I was eating about 1800 calories. During this time, I also was zigzagging my calories through the week so I could have some splurge meals and still steady within my weekly calories target. For the three months I did this, I only lost about 6# but I had also changed to heavy lifting and was seeing great changes in my body composition, was losing inches and dropped pant size, so the slower loss didn't bother me. I also felt great, full of energy, my depression was totally gone, my blood sugar levels were great and stable, and I felt strong and energetic.

In February, I began to read more about metabolism resets and how I can train my body to eat more and still lose so I started down this path. It has not been going well for me at all. In addition to the 8# I have gained back, I bloated, suffering from edema in my feet, my depression is back, my blood sugar levels are elevated, and I have no energy. Zero, zip. I am totally out of my exercise routine and, when I do work out, I feel like a slug. My fitness level is decreasing and I can't lift as heavy as I was. I feel like this whole experiment has back-fired on me.

I an 54, post-menopausal, with diabetes. From October to April, I was able to go off my oral diabetes meds but have needed to go back on them now due to this change.

Ideas? Virtual hugs also needed.

funkycamper · May 2012

Oops! Sorry for all the typos.

nyspotlight · May 2012

I'm not one of the "experts" here, but how tall are you? 1880 seems okay-ish. How many calories have you been eating?

Wild question: Any seasonal allergies? I have been through times where I am EXHAUSTED and sluggish and all things you've mentioned and it turned out I was being hit with allergies. Adding some Claritin helped a lot. Enough for me to be able to work out again.

Not sure of the cause for you - but for me, I get depressed when I stop exercising. Then I don't feel like exercising because I'm depressed. Vicious cycle. So, whatever you need to do to get moving, I'd say do it. Maybe you need a couple weeks off from counting anything. Try just listening to your body. Hard, I know!

But we'll see what others say.

I feel for you. I know how this feels and it sucks. Hang in there - taking care of yourself is the most important thing. You're just on the path to figuring out how best to do that.

twoboys2012 · May 2012

Have you tried to eat TDEE -15% instead of eating back exercise cals as this may be overestimated or under and when done the TDEE way then it is worked in and balances out over the week. Maybe get back to basics. This is what the girls recommend so best to listen to them i reckon.

Start from the beginning with your numbers again and go from there maybe.

Big hugs for you too as it must be so hard to be wrestling with it for this long but hopefully it is just a slight adjustment.

I know it must suck to be back on your meds but it won't be forever ... just need to work this all out i am sure.

Do you need help working out your numbers?

Just need to know
age
height
how much exercise
weight

Try to stay positive and rest assured that someone if not all of us will get you there soon.

:flowerforyou:

HeidiHoMom · May 2012

What are your stats? Age, height, weight?

I agree with the other poster who said you need to be consistent every day with the number of calories you are eating.

funkycamper · May 2012

I'm not one of the "experts" here, but how tall are you? 1880 seems okay-ish. How many calories have you been eating?

Wild question: Any seasonal allergies? I have been through times where I am EXHAUSTED and sluggish and all things you've mentioned and it turned out I was being hit with allergies. Adding some Claritin helped a lot. Enough for me to be able to work out again.

Not sure of the cause for you - but for me, I get depressed when I stop exercising. Then I don't feel like exercising because I'm depressed. Vicious cycle. So, whatever you need to do to get moving, I'd say do it. Maybe you need a couple weeks off from counting anything. Try just listening to your body. Hard, I know!

But we'll see what others say.

I feel for you. I know how this feels and it sucks. Hang in there - taking care of yourself is the most important thing. You're just on the path to figuring out how best to do that.

Per the formula posted here, my TDEE minus 15% is 2088. I was already struggling trying to eat 1450+ exercise calories so this was very tough for me. I probably should emphasize that I rarely ate all my exercise calories as I don't have an HRM and believe that the calories burns on MFP are too high. I generally shot for about half. I also appreciated that this gave me a buffer so if my food intake was off a bit, I was not going over. And I could use those extra calories for a splurge.

I'm actually on my fourth week of not counting my calories as I hoped a break would help. I now think that was a mistake as I am having a horrible time getting back in the swing of it.

I don't have any symptoms of allergies that I'm aware of. What led you to that conclusion? I hate to take something if I don't need it so I'm curious what led you to that.

I actually think my problem stems from increasing my carb intake. I found it virtually impossible to get my calories up high enough without adding in more carbs. And this is bad for my blood sugar levels. I was hoping my increased fitness would allow for that but I don't think so now. But how is it possible to eat that many calories without eating more carbs?

I just know that my body has not adjusted to eating this much. I feel unhealthy. I feel like I used to feel when I was in my downward spiral in the past, both mentally and physically. My stomach is almost always upset as the feeling of being too full is always there. Most posts I read in this forum indicate that people lose that feeling after a week or two. Well, it has been over three months and I am still uncomfortably stuffed ask the time. Oh, and my IBS and heartburn are back and those symptoms had been greatly reduced prior to upping my calories.

Gosh, I do hate sounding like such a whiner.

tenpets · May 2012

First of all *HUG*:flowerforyou: AND congratulations on the 69lb you've lost!!! WOW!

I've just started upping my calories to TDEE - 20% and added serious work outs (P90). I gained 6 lb in two weeks, but this past week dropped 3 of those. I'm not sure yet if it will work for me. Only time will tell.

If you are feeling so much worse, I say you definitely need to get back to exercising! When I stop doing it I get SO much more tired. Yes, it's tough to get back into a regular workout routine when you are fatigued, but within two weeks you should be feeling better and stronger.

I suggest you eat your TDEE and subtract 15-20%. Just be sure to input correct exercise frequency or the calculation will be off.

One way to eat more calories and protein is to include a few protein shakes. I know Optimum Nutrition 100% whey powder is easy to digest and has just 4 carb per scoop. Have two shakes with two scoops in each. That will add 480 calories and 96 g of protein!

That will really help with your glucose and energy levels, too.

Here's another for good measure *HUG*

funkycamper · May 2012

Have you tried to eat TDEE -15% instead of eating back exercise cals as this may be overestimated or under and when done the TDEE way then it is worked in and balances out over the week. Maybe get back to basics. This is what the girls recommend so best to listen to them i reckon.

Yes. I have done the math as outlined in the post in the sticky and have done it via Scooby's Workshop. When I started this I was definitely in the strenuous exercise category as I was working out pretty intensely 6 days/week doing heavy-lifting, some steady-state cardio, and some pretty intense HIIT, so that put me at 2150 per Scooby or 2322 per the calculations (I think it's higher due to the adding 10% for digestion).

I knew there was no way I could eat that so I used the moderate activity which took me to 2088 per the calculations (only 1897 per Scooby). Although my activity is now down so I know I should be eating less due to that but what I really want to do is get my activity level back up instead.

Start from the beginning with your numbers again and go from there maybe.

Big hugs for you too as it must be so hard to be wrestling with it for this long but hopefully it is just a slight adjustment.

I know it must suck to be back on your meds but it won't be forever ... just need to work this all out i am sure.

Do you need help working out your numbers?

Just need to know
age
height
how much exercise
weight

I don't think I need any help but you're welcome to it. I'm 54, 65" tall, was strenuously active (now probably not even moderately active but really wanting/needing to fix this) and am currently weighing 176. When I originally ran my numbers, I was 168.

:flowerforyou:

Thanks!

funkycamper · May 2012

First of all *HUG*:flowerforyou: AND congratulations on the 69lb you've lost!!! WOW!

Well, only 61# now with the 8# gain. Just can't bring myself to change my ticker.

I've just started upping my calories to TDEE - 20% and added serious work outs (P90). I gained 6 lb in two weeks, but this past week dropped 3 of those. I'm not sure yet if it will work for me. Only time will tell.

If you are feeling so much worse, I say you definitely need to get back to exercising! When I stop doing it I get SO much more tired. Yes, it's tough to get back into a regular workout routine when you are fatigued, but within two weeks you should be feeling better and stronger.

Well, easier said than done. I guess my struggle with the exercising is that I am always stuffed. Stuffed. I absolutely can't do a good, intense workout when I have food on my stomach. It literally hurts and also makes me sluggish. And eating this much means that I have food on my stomach all the time. Add in the fact that they recommend we eat every 2 hours or so and, gosh, when is the break in the day when my stomach isn't stuffed full so I can work-out strenuously? There isn't one. It's now 5:45am where I live and I have been up for over an hour due to heartburn and I'm still stuffed from dinner eaten at about 6pm last night.

The workouts I was doing prior to my recent drop in exercise were pretty darn strenuous although I varied what I did so much that it's hard to describe. Some days I might ride my bike to the Y, lift heavy for about 45 minutes, then do an hour of cardio-kickboxing, then ride home (and I live up a steep hill so that would really finish me off). Or I might go to the track and do grinders (running up and down the stairs on the stadium) and then do sprints and end with a couple miles of walking. Or I might lift heavy and then swim for an hour. Or do an hour of circuit-training with 2 minutes of cycling in-between each weight machine (this would be 30 seconds warm-up, 60 seconds all-out intense, 30 seconds cooldown). Or a class where we would do things like 60 seconds burpees, 60 seconds crunches, 60 seconds squats, 60 seconds push-ups, yada yada for an hour (very intense).

During the first two months (March and April), I kept up this exercise program while eating at TDEE-15% but I was continually struggling and my performance was deteriorating due to being too full to give it my all. And instead of finishing feeling energized like I felt in the past, I would be watching the clock and finishing feeling weak and stressed. I know this makes no sense as I should have been giving my body more fuel to function better. That's why I'm so frustrated and perplexed.

It's been during the month of May when I started exercising less but I'm still exercising. I don't think I was very clear on that in my other posts. In the last week, I've cycled about 40 miles. I also made it to the weigh room twice. But it's sure not the level of intensity I've been used to. I just have no oomph. I think it's the blood sugars being unstable again that is causing this.

I suggest you eat your TDEE and subtract 15-20%. Just be sure to input correct exercise frequency or the calculation will be off.

Have been doing this since the beginning of March. Although, to be honest, the last couple of weeks I haven't been tracking because I've been disgusted and burned-out on the whole process. I believe I've had some days where I've eaten much lower than recommended and a few days where I've been over. I'm just all out of whack right now.

One way to eat more calories and protein is to include a few protein shakes. I know Optimum Nutrition 100% whey powder is easy to digest and has just 4 carb per scoop. Have two shakes with two scoops in each. That will add 480 calories and 96 g of protein!

That will really help with your glucose and energy levels, too.

When I was still exercising strenuously, I had a protein shake each day before my workout (GNC Pro Performance AMP, a whey shake). One shake was 280 calories with 60 grams protein and 7 carbs. Had to do it before working out instead of after as, if I drank it after, I could not eat dinner as I would be too stuffed. Exercise seems to make me less hungry, not more. Why is that?

Here's another for good measure *HUG*

Thanks!

funkycamper · May 2012

One thing I should clarify. It is recommended to eat your calories consistently each day so your body becomes comfortable with knowing it will always be fueled. It is when I started trying to meet this goal that my problems really began. Prior to that, I was zigzagging so that I might eat less on days when I just really wasn't hungry but I would bank those calories to spend later in the week as there is always something (a dinner out, a party, whatever) where I could spend those extra calories. My goal was to be just a tad under, usually about 100-150 calories, of my total calories to be eaten for the week. This was working really well for me. And, while my total calories for the week weren't that much different than they are now, I didn't have that constant feeling of being stuffed like I do now.

So, really, is it bad for my metabolism to go back to zigzagging? I really enjoyed it as I never felt hungry or like I was on a diet. I was always satisfied and satiated.

msesheta · May 2012

I am just as frustrated. I have gained almost 10 pounds since I began eating more calories (six weeks ago) and my measurements have also increased. I cannot fit into any of my clothes. I have gained a total of almost 5 inches - waist, abdomen, chest, hips and arms. It is like my body is keeping every calorie that I give it. I feel fat, sluggish and unwell.

Age - 58
Weight when I upped - 160
Current Weight - 170
BMR - 1397
TDEE - 1912
TDEE - 15% - 1626

I began at 1850 calories for 4 weeks and then moved to my cut of of 1650. I have learned to keep my sodium levels down and I meet most of my macros except for fat and I am working on that.

I walk everyday for at least 30 minutes to keep my joints mobile as I have fibromyalgia and arthritis. I do a total gym and weight routine 3 times a week. I have the Lifting book, have read it and am following that advice as well.

I have spent my entire life fighting with my weight. I finally began a 1300 calorie a day with exercise program in 2004 when I was at my heaviest of 229. I lost 90 pounds over the course of 2 years and maintained until last September. I was tired of the calorie deficit and always being hungry so I upped my calories to about 1600. I was 140 pounds then and I gained and gained and gained until I was up to 160 pounds. I found MFP and joined to go back to a 1300 calorie diet and then I found this group. It all sounds wonderful and makes sense but I am getting fatter and not healthier. I should be able to eat between 1900 and 1400 calories and lose weight. I have every read all the posts and all the advice but when I have people asking me if I am okay because I look so bloated, puffy and fat - it is time for a change. I have to wear a size 16 now as none of my 14's and definitely none of my 12's fit.
I'm going to leave the forums here today and go back to the way that I know works. Perhaps I will be back and you can all say "I told you so" *lol*
You have all been very helpful and I thank you for the all the kindness I find on this forum.

tenpets · May 2012

I am just as frustrated. I have gained almost 10 pounds since I began eating more calories (six weeks ago) and my measurements have also increased. I cannot fit into any of my clothes. I have gained a total of almost 5 inches - waist, abdomen, chest, hips and arms. It is like my body is keeping every calorie that I give it. I feel fat, sluggish and unwell.

Age - 58
Weight when I upped - 160
Current Weight - 170
BMR - 1397
TDEE - 1912
TDEE - 15% - 1626

I began at 1850 calories for 4 weeks and then moved to my cut of of 1650. I have learned to keep my sodium levels down and I meet most of my macros except for fat and I am working on that.

I walk everyday for at least 30 minutes to keep my joints mobile as I have fibromyalgia and arthritis. I do a total gym and weight routine 3 times a week. I have the Lifting book, have read it and am following that advice as well.

I have spent my entire life fighting with my weight. I finally began a 1300 calorie a day with exercise program in 2004 when I was at my heaviest of 229. I lost 90 pounds over the course of 2 years and maintained until last September. I was tired of the calorie deficit and always being hungry so I upped my calories to about 1600. I was 140 pounds then and I gained and gained and gained until I was up to 160 pounds. I found MFP and joined to go back to a 1300 calorie diet and then I found this group. It all sounds wonderful and makes sense but I am getting fatter and not healthier. I should be able to eat between 1900 and 1400 calories and lose weight. I have every read all the posts and all the advice but when I have people asking me if I am okay because I look so bloated, puffy and fat - it is time for a change. I have to wear a size 16 now as none of my 14's and definitely none of my 12's fit.
I'm going to leave the forums here today and go back to the way that I know works. Perhaps I will be back and you can all say "I told you so" *lol*
You have all been very helpful and I thank you for the all the kindness I find on this forum.

Oh my... now I'm getting scared about EM2WL and I'm only just beginning!:frown:

naonah · May 2012

I am no expert at this. I've been dieting for decades and in March decided to follow this way of life. I upped my cals from 1500 to 1900 and gained 3lbs within 1 week. I felt bloated, but started feeling much happier, more focused, etc. I stabilized and did that for about 6 weeks and then decided to reset my metabolism. So, I upped my cals to TDEE two weeks ago and gained another 3 lbs in the first week and now stabilized again. I will do this for another 6 weeks and then reduce my cals by 10%. I expected this increase from all the posts that are "pinned" at the top of this group's posts. My body is basically in shock from all the food I'm giving it because it's not used to it anymore. So, its first reaction is to store it all in case of upcoming starvation again. I am keeping it up for 8 weeks, to really lmake it get over the fear and start letting go! I eat every 2-3 hrs, but try to eat no more than 300-400 cals at a time. I had to force myself to eat a little something 5 times a day cause I wasn't really hungry. But see, that's the beauty of it, you never feel famished so you don't binge like crazy.

Funkycamper, here's a BIG hug for you {{HUG}}. I think you may have been up to something when you were eating 1800 and doing well. Your way of counting was different in the sense that you ate low cals but then ate back your exercise. When you calculated your TDEE it included exercise burns, therefore, you don't have to eat any back unless you NET less than your BMR. So between your old way of doing things, and this way, I don't think you would be eating all that much more...as for the food choices, I also think you have to pay attention to your ratios. They say to set them at 40% carbs, 30% protein and 30% fat. I too found it hard to eat so many cals, that i started eating more refined sugars and carbs, since i could "afford" it :ohwell: From everything I've been reading (New Rules of Lifting for Women and Burn Fat, Build Muscle) however, it's protein and fat i should be eating more of, believe it or not! They say that you should have some protein at every meal. Surprising at first, but when I read all the technical stuff of how our body reacts, it makes sense!

Msesetha, I feel your frustration as all my clothes are fitting tight now and although I refuse to buy bigger, I may need a few pieces (looking for sales). Not having your height, my TDEE calculations for you (at 5 ft, 5 in and moderate exercise) comes out to 2200. Plus, you maybe had to keep at it a little longer before cutting? Again, I'm no expert. I do suggest to read the posts at the top of this group they have a lot of info and links.

Tenpets, you need to keep an open mind. This is a lifetime thing...no quick fix. Like I said, I'm 2 months in and plan on giving my body a GOOD rest from dieting. I have faith....some days it's stronger than others but I have to make this work!

Good luck everyone!

Zylayna · May 2012

I am just as frustrated. I have gained almost 10 pounds since I began eating more calories (six weeks ago) and my measurements have also increased. I cannot fit into any of my clothes. I have gained a total of almost 5 inches - waist, abdomen, chest, hips and arms. It is like my body is keeping every calorie that I give it. I feel fat, sluggish and unwell.

Age - 58
Weight when I upped - 160
Current Weight - 170
BMR - 1397
TDEE - 1912
TDEE - 15% - 1626

I began at 1850 calories for 4 weeks and then moved to my cut of of 1650. I have learned to keep my sodium levels down and I meet most of my macros except for fat and I am working on that.

I walk everyday for at least 30 minutes to keep my joints mobile as I have fibromyalgia and arthritis. I do a total gym and weight routine 3 times a week. I have the Lifting book, have read it and am following that advice as well.

I have spent my entire life fighting with my weight. I finally began a 1300 calorie a day with exercise program in 2004 when I was at my heaviest of 229. I lost 90 pounds over the course of 2 years and maintained until last September. I was tired of the calorie deficit and always being hungry so I upped my calories to about 1600. I was 140 pounds then and I gained and gained and gained until I was up to 160 pounds. I found MFP and joined to go back to a 1300 calorie diet and then I found this group. It all sounds wonderful and makes sense but I am getting fatter and not healthier. I should be able to eat between 1900 and 1400 calories and lose weight. I have every read all the posts and all the advice but when I have people asking me if I am okay because I look so bloated, puffy and fat - it is time for a change. I have to wear a size 16 now as none of my 14's and definitely none of my 12's fit.
I'm going to leave the forums here today and go back to the way that I know works. Perhaps I will be back and you can all say "I told you so" *lol*
You have all been very helpful and I thank you for the all the kindness I find on this forum.

Oh my... now I'm getting scared about EM2WL and I'm only just beginning!:frown:

I think that our biggest enemy here is the fear and my heart just breaks for everyone in this thread that is suffering (as I am) about not seeing the progress they want. I can tell you that I've struggled with it more times than you can count in the 8 weeks I've been doing this. I've lost weight at VLCD so yes, it can work, BUT here's the kicker....in order for me to keep that weight off I had to keep lowering, and lowering my cals AND increase, increase my exercise because if I had even ONE off day, I put on anywhere from 1 - 4 pounds that never went away again unless I lowered cals again and/or increased exercise again. Eventually I got to the point where I simply couldn't reduce or exercise anymore and I started to consistently gain...over 25lbs in 3 years.

So, yes....VLCD can work. But I caution you. You might just find yourself right where I am.

Now I'm here...trying to lose this weight properly. 8 weeks in and my weight is up, my inches are up, my body is constantly bloated (ankle swelling and all), etc, etc, etc. I have all the symptoms of a recovering ED patient but in today's society I would not ever be considered to have an ED. I could quit. Go back to eating fewer cals like society says, like my mind tells me "worked once before"....sorta. But I don't want to go back to that 20 year spiral. I was a physical and emotional disaster. As far as I'm concerned...eating at a VLC IS an ED.

I encourage you all to remember why you came here in the first place. I came here to do it right this time. To be healthy and NORMAL when this is all said and done. And if my body takes 4 flipping months to finally trust me...then so be it. It doesn't mean that I don't cry or get depressed about it, I simply don't let my fears win. I keep focused on my goal and that is to be HEALTHY FIT....not just thin.

What's your goal?

tangiesharp · May 2012

To FunkyCamper,

I'm sorry you're having some weight gain. Here's a shoulder for you and some information as well.

A few things. It is recommended that you rerun your TDEE after every 5 pound swing. I reran your numbers, but I'm not clear on your current. activity level. If you're at moderate activity, your TDEE-15 is 1913. At light activity, that number drops to 1697. I think others have already pointed out that you don't eat exercise calories unless your net calories (food-exercise) are below your BMR (1452). I'm not sure if you are doing that or not.

Another thing you mentioned is that you've been using carbs to increase your calorie intake. But here, it is recommended that you concentrate on increasing protein and try to reach daily macro goals of 40/30/30 (carbs/protein/fat). My father is diabetic, so I know about the link between carbs and blood sugar. I guess that's another reason to work on increasing protein.

I also read that you used to drink protein shakes before workouts. The thing is that protein helps build your muscles and speeds up repair of your muscles, so that's why most people drink it after workouts. I drink 2 a day - once in the morning and once after I workout. If I workout in the morning, I wait until after my workout to drink it and then add one later in the day.

The last thing with this method is consistency. You want your body to understand that you will fuel it everyday. I know some people do zigzagging, but I would recommend that you still try to keep your net calories over your BMR. So, you could zigzag between your cut (TDEE-15 or 20%) and your maintenance level (TDEE), but I wouldn't go down much further than that.

I know this can be frustrating. I'm 45 and hormonally, my body is a mess. But I know that I yo-yo dieted for years, so it's not surprising that my body doesn't believe this 3 month "experiment" is really going to last for the rest of my life.

I don't know what else to say. I hope you have enough information to decide how you will finish your weight loss journey.

Hope this helps.

zukkiz · May 2012

To FunkyCamper,

I'm sorry you're having some weight gain. Here's a shoulder for you and some information as well.

A few things. It is recommended that you rerun your TDEE after every 5 pound swing. I reran your numbers, but I'm not clear on your current. activity level. If you're at moderate activity, your TDEE-15 is 1913. At light activity, that number drops to 1697. I think others have already pointed out that you don't eat exercise calories unless your net calories (food-exercise) are below your BMR (1452). I'm not sure if you are doing that or not.

Another thing you mentioned is that you've been using carbs to increase your calorie intake. But here, it is recommended that you concentrate on increasing protein and try to reach daily macro goals of 40/30/30 (carbs/protein/fat). My father is diabetic, so I know about the link between carbs and blood sugar. I guess that's another reason to work on increasing protein.

I also read that you used to drink protein shakes before workouts. The thing is that protein helps build your muscles and speeds up repair of your muscles, so that's why most people drink it after workouts. I drink 2 a day - once in the morning and once after I workout. If I workout in the morning, I wait until after my workout to drink it and then add one later in the day.

The last thing with this method is consistency. You want your body to understand that you will fuel it everyday. I know some people do zigzagging, but I would recommend that you still try to keep your net calories over your BMR. So, you could zigzag between your cut (TDEE-15 or 20%) and your maintenance level (TDEE), but I wouldn't go down much further than that.

I know this can be frustrating. I'm 45 and hormonally, my body is a mess. But I know that I yo-yo dieted for years, so it's not surprising that my body doesn't believe this 3 month "experiment" is really going to last for the rest of my life.

I don't know what else to say. I hope you have enough information to decide how you will finish your weight loss journey.

Hope this helps.

^^^This

turningstar · May 2012

Hugs to you. This journey is particularly hard on some of us. I agree with the others about going back to the drawing board and recalculating your calories. I can't see your diary, so what is it set at? 40/30/30 is optimal. You need the right balance of foods. Try nutrient dense foods. Nuts, peanut butter, etc. Eat full fat foods and whole milk to get your calories and nutrients in. It might take a while for your body to find a balance. Another thought....maybe go to the doctor and get a checkup. Hormone fluctuations could be the culprit. Good luck to you on your journey.

funkycamper · May 2012

I am no expert at this. I've been dieting for decades and in March decided to follow this way of life. I upped my cals from 1500 to 1900 and gained 3lbs within 1 week. I felt bloated, but started feeling much happier, more focused, etc. I stabilized and did that for about 6 weeks and then decided to reset my metabolism. So, I upped my cals to TDEE two weeks ago and gained another 3 lbs in the first week and now stabilized again. I will do this for another 6 weeks and then reduce my cals by 10%. I expected this increase from all the posts that are "pinned" at the top of this group's posts. My body is basically in shock from all the food I'm giving it because it's not used to it anymore. So, its first reaction is to store it all in case of upcoming starvation again. I am keeping it up for 8 weeks, to really lmake it get over the fear and start letting go! I eat every 2-3 hrs, but try to eat no more than 300-400 cals at a time. I had to force myself to eat a little something 5 times a day cause I wasn't really hungry. But see, that's the beauty of it, you never feel famished so you don't binge like crazy.

It seems to be working well for you. If I have had the same results you are having, I might not feel so frustrated about this. You say you immediately started feeling happier, more focused, etc. I have had the opposite reaction. And I have been at TDEE-15% for about 3 months so I think I've given it a fair shot. I have also been eating every 2-3 hours. Have had to put an alarm on my phone to make me even think about food because I'm not hungry but have been forcing myself to do it. All it seems to do is keep my stomach in a state of upset. However, at the same time, mentally all I do is think about food these days. I never had that problem prior to raising my calories to TDEE-15%.

I have never been a binge eater. When I was zigzagging, I would save up calories for a splurge or two sometime during the week but they were planned splurges and not binges. With the phone app, it's easy to see where you are for your weekly total and how many calories you need to eat to reach your calorie target for the week. It tracks you from Monday-Sunday. This worked out well for me. If we were going to a party or out to a nice dinner I could plan ahead how many calories I needed to bank in order to enjoy my splurge without going over. Trying to eat the same amount of calories each day doesn't leave me the ability to create that bank of calories to draw from. Especially if I stick to 5 meals/day. So this means when going somewhere where food is part of the festivities, I do have to deprive myself and this leads to me feeling deprived during that particular situation. Hope that makes sense.

Anyway, even in my gaining weight years, I rarely binged. And I have never been a night-time eater with little interest in eating after dinner. To get in my 5th meal a day, it's usually an evening snack and I hate it. I'm just really forcing the food down.

Funkycamper, here's a BIG hug for you {{HUG}}. I think you may have been up to something when you were eating 1800 and doing well. Your way of counting was different in the sense that you ate low cals but then ate back your exercise. When you calculated your TDEE it included exercise burns, therefore, you don't have to eat any back unless you NET less than your BMR. So between your old way of doing things, and this way, I don't think you would be eating all that much more

I didn't eat 1800 each day. That was closer to my average. I had days where I ate closer to my net of 1450 and other days when I would eat more if I was, as I've already mentioned, doing to some event or festivity where I would then eat back those calories in a planned splurge or if I just had a day where my appetite was bigger than normal. Right now, per the calculations and Scooby's workshop, I'm eating about 400 calories a day more than I had been so, yeah, I would say that's a fairly significant increase.

I do understand that I don't eat back exercise calories on this plan but, rather, a steady amount of TDEE-15%.

...as for the food choices, I also think you have to pay attention to your ratios. They say to set them at 40% carbs, 30% protein and 30% fat. I too found it hard to eat so many cals, that i started eating more refined sugars and carbs, since i could "afford" it :ohwell: From everything I've been reading (New Rules of Lifting for Women and Burn Fat, Build Muscle) however, it's protein and fat i should be eating more of, believe it or not! They say that you should have some protein at every meal. Surprising at first, but when I read all the technical stuff of how our body reacts, it makes sense!

Yes. I'm not at 40/30/30. I absolutely can not eat that many carbs. I'm very aware that protein and healthy fats are where I need to focus. My blood sugar levels would really be atrocious if I raised my carbs to 40%. I know some say that you can eat more complex carbs and your blood sugar levels won't be impacted but I have never found that to be true. One slice of whole-grain bread raises my blood sugars almost as high as a slice of white bread. A cup of brown rice raises me almost as much as a cup of white rice. Etc. I did try raising my carb level to 30% from the 25% I had previously been eating but, of course, just 5% higher was a lot more grams of carbs once I also raised my calorie level. And I just can't eat enough protein to reach the number of grams of protein recommended at the higher calorie level either. I've been doing things like mixing protein powder into my greek yogurt, etc., to try to get enough in, plus the protein shakes. I just am not a big enough meat lover and I can only eat so many eggs a day. Anyway, I always have a protein/fat with a meal or snack and would just eat the carbs to supplement the need for more calories.

When I was zigzagging, my body seemed to be able to handle higher carbs if I splurged on something with more carbs on it once or twice a week. But not on a daily, regular basis.

31prvrbs · May 2012

Funkycamper,

So sorry you are feeling bummed :flowerforyou:

I will say that there are a couple of things that I noticed during your story, and let me know if I misread/interpreted.

1) I noticed that you said that you began your journey researching metabolism resets. Did you ever attempt to do so? Meaning did you ever eat at maintenance during this experiment?

2) You are absolutely correct that w/your diabetes, upping carbs may not be the best route :frown: . Have you considered increasing your healthy fats instead? Fats are much more cal dense than carbs (9g compared to 4g), and hitting your proper fat intake is crucial to shedding fat. That will also take some of the pressure off of your body to try to process the extra carbs, especially having insulin issues (btw, does your body "over-produce" insulin, or produce none at all?)

3) Although you've been at this for quite some time, I see quite a bit of "changes" during that time, and I'm looking for the "consistent" part. changing things up to prevent boredom is fine, but the food part should have remained consistent until your body adjusted, which it seems never had enough time to happen? Can you point out to me the part that you did *consistently* for 6+weeks during that time, so we can start the analyzing there?

4) In all honestly, it seems like you've moved into a severely over-trained state that dropping your cals will not "fix." I do not hear of any recovery weeks or diet breaks during that time, which are truly needed.

I do agree with everyone about running your numbers your current weight and activity level, and starting from there (eating one amount, daily, not zigzagging, or eating back exercise cals, as they should be figured in already.). There is no rule that you have to eat every 2 hours, especially if working out on an empty stomach bothers you :sick: . Space your meals that surround your workout far enough apart so that the food has digested and you have the energy levels that you need.

Also, if you could clarify for me, you said that you have been eating TDEE -15% for 3 months. But your TDEE was 2088, and you were eating anywhere from 1450-1800? Did I read that right?

There is nothing wrong w/zigzagging, in fat it is a method that I use myself. But it is best used after your body has fully adjusted, and even better when you are much closer to the "finish line." Having a big meal once in a while can be done whether you zigzag or not, so that's ok, to still plan for that, it's the dropping *lower* part of the zigzag that backfires if tried before the body has stabilized.

I'm just trying to sort things out, so that I can understand a bit better

...for reference, I did a metabolism reset for *over* 3 months where I ate at maintenance (TDEE or above), consistently, the entire time. I also kept cardio *very* moderate. Then I was able to drop into a deficit and begin losing again. That is a metabolism reset. Is that what you've done?

~Kiki

nyspotlight · May 2012

I hate taking thing, too! I will often wait until I feel the allergies coming ont o pop a pill, since some days aren't so bad. And there's always the Neti pot if you're a brave soul.

The allergy thing finally came to light for me after months of getting everything else tested. I was tired, sluggish, even depressed. They tested me for mono, for anemia, for blood sugar stuff. Eventually a doctor said it sounded like allergies and that helped. Exercise helps the allergies (if I workout indoors), too. i think because it gets everything pumping along.

I noticed you say that when you eat more carbs you feel overly full. Have you looked into a gluten intolerance? My sister is gluten intolerant (not necessarily the same thing as celiac), and if she has anything with wheat in it, that's how she feels. Bloated and stuffed and tired. Just a thought. I hope you don't feel like I'm piling on. I would just hate for it to be something so simple and have no one suggest it. If you're curious, just cut out gluten for a few weeks and see how you feel. Since you aren't such a carb fan, that probably wouldn't be too hard for you. And you can still have brown rice, and other grains like oats or millet.

If you're anything like me, one of the hardest things can be picking a plan and then trusting it enough to really do it. There are so many diets out there and ever time I pick one, there's another diet yelling at me that I'm doing it wrong. I'm trying my best to stick to my EM2WL numbers, etc., but it is hard. Trying to be consistent when I'm scared is hard. Whatever you pick, I suggest (humbly, I promise), that you really commit to it. So if the "plan" is 1800 cals, eat all of them. If it's a different plan, just really do that. Then at least if it doesn't work (and I sincerely hope that it does), you can know that you really tried it before moving on to the next idea. And if it does work then, well, ya know what works!

It took me a few years of people telling me the above for it to start to sink in, so I'm not saying it's easy. But I'm trying. Feel free to friend me if you'd like. I know the frustration - I know it well.

Many hugs.

twinmomtwice4 · May 2012

You've already gotten some wonderful feedback but I just wanted to give you a big ole hug!!!

funkycamper · May 2012

To FunkyCamper,

I'm sorry you're having some weight gain. Here's a shoulder for you and some information as well.

Thanks. I can use all the shoulders I can get.

A few things. It is recommended that you rerun your TDEE after every 5 pound swing. I reran your numbers, but I'm not clear on your current. activity level. If you're at moderate activity, your TDEE-15 is 1913. At light activity, that number drops to 1697. I think others have already pointed out that you don't eat exercise calories unless your net calories (food-exercise) are below your BMR (1452). I'm not sure if you are doing that or not.

I just re-ran my numbers at Scooby's and my TDEE-15 at moderate activity is 2009. I do realize that, with this plan, I don't eat back exercise calories.

Another thing you mentioned is that you've been using carbs to increase your calorie intake. But here, it is recommended that you concentrate on increasing protein and try to reach daily macro goals of 40/30/30 (carbs/protein/fat). My father is diabetic, so I know about the link between carbs and blood sugar. I guess that's another reason to work on increasing protein.

I haven't consciously tried to focus on carbs. However, even though I liberally use fats eating things like nut butters, real butter, mayonnaise, and olive oil, I still found it hard to get my calories consistently up high enough just eating more fats and protein. I'm not a big meat fan so eating enough protein is always a struggle which is one reason why I use protein powders, either as a shake or mixing vanilla-flavored protein powder into my yogurt. Even with that, found it virtually imposible to meet calorie goals without also eating more carbs. Even with that, my carb intake was never 40%. Most days closer to 30% but, even that is too high of a percentage for my body to handle well. I do best when I don't go over 100 grams/day on days with lots of exercise. On lighter exercise days, I do best keeping my carbs closer to about 60-70 grams.

I also read that you used to drink protein shakes before workouts. The thing is that protein helps build your muscles and speeds up repair of your muscles, so that's why most people drink it after workouts. I drink 2 a day - once in the morning and once after I workout. If I workout in the morning, I wait until after my workout to drink it and then add one later in the day.

The reason why I drank the shakes before is that I really can't do intense HIIT or circuit-training, my preferred exercises, with the feeling of any kind of food on my stomach. Even a light meal of about 400 calories needs to be eaten at least three, preferably closer to four, hours prior to my workout. But I was finding that I was often hitting a wall during my workout. Drinking a protein shake prior to workout would give me good fuel for the workout but not the feeling of fullness on my stomach that bothers me during workouts and, quite often, even gives me severe indigestion.

The last thing with this method is consistency. You want your body to understand that you will fuel it everyday. I know some people do zigzagging, but I would recommend that you still try to keep your net calories over your BMR. So, you could zigzag between your cut (TDEE-15 or 20%) and your maintenance level (TDEE), but I wouldn't go down much further than that.

I'm not arguing your point. It makes logical sense in the context of wanting to be able to eat more to weigh less and assure your body that you're always going to fuel it properly. However, this also defeats the purpose of the zigzag, imho, as this really doesn't let you bank enough calories to amount to any kind of splurge. Not saying this is a good thing or bad thing, just an observation.

I know this can be frustrating. I'm 45 and hormonally, my body is a mess. But I know that I yo-yo dieted for years, so it's not surprising that my body doesn't believe this 3 month "experiment" is really going to last for the rest of my life.

I don't have any history of yo-yo dieting and I have never eaten very low calorie except for the August through about mid-November time-frame of last year when I first started at MFP when I was eating roughly 1200 calories/day without eating back my exercise calories. Not sure if that makes a difference but I just thought I'd point that out.

I don't know what else to say. I hope you have enough information to decide how you will finish your weight loss journey.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the advice and support. Gives me something more to chew on.

Eat More 2 Weigh Less

Need a shoulder to cry on

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