Why is Scientology kookier than the Catholic church?

LemonSnap
LemonSnap Posts: 186 Member
Suri it can't be true, TomKat is no more.

And one of the speculated reasons is that Katie would prefer her daughter raised as a Catholic rather than a Scientologist.

Why would Catholicism be preferable to Scientology?
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Replies

  • elmarko123
    elmarko123 Posts: 89
    For a number of reasons,

    Scientology is a cult, one which directly influences it's members to not associate with people outside of it - it uses various known manipulation techniques (love bombing, social cutting people off, advising against viewing material on-line, information restriction & near slave labour level workers).

    I don't like the Catholic church either, but all groups must be judged on it's merits & flaws - I'm yet to see any merits come from Scientology - at least the churches do get involved in a large amount of charity work.
  • bathsheba_c
    bathsheba_c Posts: 1,873 Member
    I once read a website for families of people in cults. The website provided a list of differences between religions and cults. I don't remember all of them, but some of them were:

    -Religions work for the benefit of all members, whereas cults primarily benefit one person at the top
    -Religions encourage followers to participate in the community, while cults encourage members to separate from society
    -Religions promote family, whereas cults encourage members to avoid family who are not in the cult
    -Religions encourage followers to think about their beliefs, but cults tell people what to believe and don't allow them to question
  • LemonSnap
    LemonSnap Posts: 186 Member
    I once read a website for families of people in cults. The website provided a list of differences between religions and cults. I don't remember all of them, but some of them were:

    -Religions work for the benefit of all members, whereas cults primarily benefit one person at the top
    -Religions encourage followers to participate in the community, while cults encourage members to separate from society
    -Religions promote family, whereas cults encourage members to avoid family who are not in the cult
    -Religions encourage followers to think about their beliefs, but cults tell people what to believe and don't allow them to question

    You are assuming Scientology is a cult. There are many high profile individuals in Scientology.

    And this statement:

    cults tell people what to believe and don't allow them to question.

    is typical of the Catholic church.
  • LemonSnap
    LemonSnap Posts: 186 Member
    For a number of reasons,

    Scientology is a cult, one which directly influences it's members to not associate with people outside of it - it uses various known manipulation techniques (love bombing, social cutting people off, advising against viewing material on-line, information restriction & near slave labour level workers).

    I don't like the Catholic church either, but all groups must be judged on it's merits & flaws - I'm yet to see any merits come from Scientology - at least the churches do get involved in a large amount of charity work.

    Thanks for your response elmarko. I have examples of where the Catholic church uses love bombing, social cutting people off, advising against viewing material on-line, information restriction & near slave labour level workers, but am on my way out. Will provide a detailed reply later.
  • bathsheba_c
    bathsheba_c Posts: 1,873 Member
    Why would having many high-profile individuals make Scientology not a cult?

    I would also disagree with your assertion that the Catholic Church doesn't allow people to question. Of course it tells people what to believe (religions have BELIEFS after all), but even the doctrine of papal infallibility is very limited in scope. There's a reason so many people will describe themselves as lapsed Catholics, but former Scientologists tell stories of physical intimidation against leaving.
  • elmarko123
    elmarko123 Posts: 89
    Why would having many high-profile individuals make Scientology not a cult?

    I would also disagree with your assertion that the Catholic Church doesn't allow people to question. Of course it tells people what to believe (religions have BELIEFS after all), but even the doctrine of papal infallibility is very limited in scope. There's a reason so many people will describe themselves as lapsed Catholics, but former Scientologists tell stories of physical intimidation against leaving.
    Exactly, it's complex.

    Catholicism is so big you will have some small parts which are as extreme as Scientology - but the main-steam Catholic Church isn't the same as the core of Scientology (in regards to possessing cult like traits).

    Punishment for leaving is a key part, extreme isolationism etc - while I'm sure you will be able to find examples of this occurring in any major religion, but we need to see it's the standard/promoted by the head of a organisation.

    I would agree that fundamentalists from all religions are almost indistinguishable from cults - like for example, in fundamentalist Islam the punishment for apostasy is death, girls suffer from genital mutilation.

    I don't think the popularity of any group should inter-fear with our objective judgement of it.
  • summertime_girl
    summertime_girl Posts: 3,945 Member
    Scientology requires money to get into the higher levels of the organization.

    Of course, Catholics ask for tithes, but they do allow anyone of any financial status to attend.
  • TheRoadDog
    TheRoadDog Posts: 11,788 Member
    Scientology requires money to get into the higher levels of the organization.

    Of course, Catholics ask for tithes, but they do allow anyone of any financial status to attend.

    I went to Catholic School for one year.

    When I was 6, our Catholic Church/School built a dorm style living quarters for the Nuns and asked for donations of plates, silverware, etc. for the communal kitchen. We were quite poor, but my mother boxed up half of our own stuff from our kitchen and took it to them. They turned her away and told her that they had a specific pattern, etc. and where we could purchase place settings. My parents could not afford it.

    The following year, when my sister was 6 and old enough to enter into the Catholic School, my parents were informed that there was not room for her. My Father believed that my sister was denied entry, because we were not able to donate the previous year to the Church. He pulled me out of Catholic School and told them now they had room for other kids, because none of his would be attending. It was almost 40 years before my Father and Mother ever attended Catholic services again.

    Catholicism is no different that Scientology. Money Talks. They are both cults.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
    I've read a lot from people who left Scientology who were not celebrities. They are basically enslaved while members and some have been locked up when they tried to leave or pursued after they got out and their families punished for them leaving.

    As theology, all religion to me is the same. I mean, you believe what you believe and it's none of my business. But it crosses a line when the religion becomes a prison.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
    Scientology requires money to get into the higher levels of the organization.

    Of course, Catholics ask for tithes, but they do allow anyone of any financial status to attend.

    I went to Catholic School for one year.

    When I was 6, our Catholic Church/School built a dorm style living quarters for the Nuns and asked for donations of plates, silverware, etc. for the communal kitchen. We were quite poor, but my mother boxed up half of our own stuff from our kitchen and took it to them. They turned her away and told her that they had a specific pattern, etc. and where we could purchase place settings. My parents could not afford it.

    The following year, when my sister was 6 and old enough to enter into the Catholic School, my parents were informed that there was not room for her. My Father believed that my sister was denied entry, because we were not able to donate the previous year to the Church. He pulled me out of Catholic School and told them now they had room for other kids, because none of his would be attending. It was almost 40 years before my Father and Mother ever attended Catholic services again.

    Catholicism is no different that Scientology. Money Talks. They are both cults.

    That's interesting because most of the kids I knew who went to Catholic school were there on full scholarship and paid nothing.

    One's experience with the Catholic Church can depend entirely on your parish and the priests.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
    Oh! Oh! Funny story about Scientology.

    They had a little headquarters type place in my town when I was growing up. I was quite young at the time, so all I know is it was this green house and they would stand outside and beckon people in to take their personality tests. My parents have a very strange sense of humor, so one day I was walking with my dad and they called him in and he went. (I just remember being really bored and they gave me a balloon.)

    Anyway, this test was multiple choice where you answered the questions by filling in those little bubble scanner sheets. My father didn't actually read any of them and just randomly filled in bubbles. The assessment they gave him was that he was unconscious.
  • TheRoadDog
    TheRoadDog Posts: 11,788 Member
    [/quote]
    [/quote]

    "That's interesting because most of the kids I knew who went to Catholic school were there on full scholarship and paid nothing.

    One's experience with the Catholic Church can depend entirely on your parish and the priests."
    [/quote]
    [/quote]

    I was too young to know the finances. They may have paid nothing, or they may have paid with the help of my Fathers' parents. I know that when my parents separated from the Church is cause a riff with my Grandparents.

    My father had very serious health issue and slipped into a coma for several months. About 10 years ago. when he came out of it, he claimed to have made contact with God. He went back to the Catholic Church after many decades. He passed on a couple years later. My Mother went to the Priest and asked him to speak at my Fathers' funeral. He wouldn't. It hurt her.

    I have no use for the Catholic Church. Or organised religion for that matter.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
    That's interesting because most of the kids I knew who went to Catholic school were there on full scholarship and paid nothing.

    One's experience with the Catholic Church can depend entirely on your parish and the priests."
    I was too young to know the finances. They may have paid nothing, or they may have paid with the help of my Fathers' parents. I know that when my parents separated from the Church is cause a riff with my Grandparents.

    My father had very serious health issue and slipped into a coma for several months. About 10 years ago. when he came out of it, he claimed to have made contact with God. He went back to the Catholic Church after many decades. He passed on a couple years later. My Mother went to the Priest and asked him to speak at my Fathers' funeral. He wouldn't. It hurt her.

    I have no use for the Catholic Church. Or organised religion for that matter.

    Sounds like you had a very bad priest. I'm not Catholic but most of my friends are or were and my mom went to Catholic school from kindergarten through high school (my grandmother is full-blooded, first generation Italian, so obviously!). My aunt divorced her first husband, who she was married to for only two years, no children and he cheated and beat her. Her second husband was raised Methodist and was also divorced (no kids).

    They were married more than 30 years with four children and my aunt decided to go back to the church. The first priest she saw was very, very nasty to her (sounds like your mother's priest) and she went away in tears, it was so awful. But they ended up finding a new parish with a wonderful, understanding and forgiving priest and are very happy with it now. It REALLY does come down to the priest and the parish.

    Personally, I have a lot of issues with the theology of most organized religions, so would never be a member of any of them, but the problems mostly lie with the people you deal with. It's sad because the Catholic Church does often do a lot of good along with the bad. The priest sex abuse scandal, though, is a tough thing to get over. Not that sexual abuse happened, but the Church's response.
  • TheRoadDog
    TheRoadDog Posts: 11,788 Member
    That's interesting because most of the kids I knew who went to Catholic school were there on full scholarship and paid nothing.

    One's experience with the Catholic Church can depend entirely on your parish and the priests."
    I was too young to know the finances. They may have paid nothing, or they may have paid with the help of my Fathers' parents. I know that when my parents separated from the Church is cause a riff with my Grandparents.

    My father had very serious health issue and slipped into a coma for several months. About 10 years ago. when he came out of it, he claimed to have made contact with God. He went back to the Catholic Church after many decades. He passed on a couple years later. My Mother went to the Priest and asked him to speak at my Fathers' funeral. He wouldn't. It hurt her.

    I have no use for the Catholic Church. Or organised religion for that matter.

    Sounds like you had a very bad priest. I'm not Catholic but most of my friends are or were and my mom went to Catholic school from kindergarten through high school (my grandmother is full-blooded, first generation Italian, so obviously!). My aunt divorced her first husband, who she was married to for only two years, no children and he cheated and beat her. Her second husband was raised Methodist and was also divorced (no kids).

    They were married more than 30 years with four children and my aunt decided to go back to the church. The first priest she saw was very, very nasty to her (sounds like your mother's priest) and she went away in tears, it was so awful. But they ended up finding a new parish with a wonderful, understanding and forgiving priest and are very happy with it now. It REALLY does come down to the priest and the parish.

    Personally, I have a lot of issues with the theology of most organized religions, so would never be a member of any of them, but the problems mostly lie with the people you deal with. It's sad because the Catholic Church does often do a lot of good along with the bad. The priest sex abuse scandal, though, is a tough thing to get over. Not that sexual abuse happened, but the Church's response.

    I agree with you to a point. People do good. If those people happen to be in a postion to help others then that organization does good too.

    More often than not, however, most organizations are looking out for the members of that organization and not individuals. It's not religion I have a problem with; it's gangs. I define gangs as groups of people who place their oraganization over the individual. Whether it be the Catholic Church, Mormons, Scientologists, Crips, Bloods, Republicans, Democrats, Boy Scouts, the NAACP or VFW.
  • adrian_indy
    adrian_indy Posts: 1,444 Member
    Kookier how? Their beliefs are completely strange to me as are every other religions. And like all other religions, I agree with some of their doctrine, some I don't. I can not say whether or not they do good works, I have yet to hear of any of their charity work ( never looked into it, not saying it doesn't happen). But even if they don't do charity, they also haven't commited any atrocities or evils other than telling Brook Shields she didn't need anti-depressants for post partum. That's pretty mild compared to telling Africans that rubbers are worse than AIDS in they eyes of god.
  • bathsheba_c
    bathsheba_c Posts: 1,873 Member
    Kookier how? Their beliefs are completely strange to me as are every other religions. And like all other religions, I agree with some of their doctrine, some I don't. I can not say whether or not they do good works, I have yet to hear of any of their charity work ( never looked into it, not saying it doesn't happen). But even if they don't do charity, they also haven't commited any atrocities or evils other than telling Brook Shields she didn't need anti-depressants for post partum. That's pretty mild compared to telling Africans that rubbers are worse than AIDS in they eyes of god.
    Last I checked, both AIDS and depression are fatal diseases. Just my 2 cents to derail the discussion. :)

    In any event, you should check into what people who have left Scientology have to say about it. You leave the Catholic Church, they believe you go to hell, but they can't stop you. You try to leave Scientology, and it's a whole other ballgame.
  • TheRoadDog
    TheRoadDog Posts: 11,788 Member
    Quote from "Cousins".

    Vince(Lloyd Bridges): God makes me nervous when you get him indoors.
  • EvanKeel
    EvanKeel Posts: 1,904 Member
    Meh, give scientology a millennium and I think they'll probably seem on par with each other on the kooky scale.
  • adrian_indy
    adrian_indy Posts: 1,444 Member
    Kookier how? Their beliefs are completely strange to me as are every other religions. And like all other religions, I agree with some of their doctrine, some I don't. I can not say whether or not they do good works, I have yet to hear of any of their charity work ( never looked into it, not saying it doesn't happen). But even if they don't do charity, they also haven't commited any atrocities or evils other than telling Brook Shields she didn't need anti-depressants for post partum. That's pretty mild compared to telling Africans that rubbers are worse than AIDS in they eyes of god.
    Last I checked, both AIDS and depression are fatal diseases. Just my 2 cents to derail the discussion. :)

    In any event, you should check into what people who have left Scientology have to say about it. You leave the Catholic Church, they believe you go to hell, but they can't stop you. You try to leave Scientology, and it's a whole other ballgame.

    Depression has many different degrees and can be treated. You can be alittle depressed. Only Magic Johnson has a little AIDS.
  • k8blujay2
    k8blujay2 Posts: 4,941 Member
    Meh... I find both to be rather "kooky"... From the outside looking in, both can look quite similar... So I would have to wonder what is happening behind closed doors....