Is finding someone attractive...too much to ask for?
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Everything said above is true. The dating world is the oyster of attractive people.
Ok guys, help me understand this. When I look at the ladies who are saying all they get are losers, I feel like most of them (including OP- you are gorgeous) are WAY more beautiful than me. Yet you guys keep saying the attractive ones get what they want. Are these ladies too attractive?
I get a lot of losers, too, but I'm also getting enough good guys that I can go out. Granted, they're not "perfect 10s" in appearance, but they're good looking. What gives? Are the guys just intimidated?
What a lady wants and what she chooses are two entirely different things.
I got flack for it before but don`t care,the first is based on her thinking process and the second is based on what emotions are in play with that usually winning the battle.
If that undefined feeling of euphoria and excitement happens it is then that person who will win the ladys attention provided he does fall within her basic definition of attraction.
He may be none of what she says she wants but will likely convince herself otherwise until the reality of life finally catches up.
Now before anyone jumps on me one has to be fair about it...a guy does similar and for different reasons.
If a lady he finds initialy attractive manages to stroke his ego,give of a sexual openness and appear to be a minimal challenge to date and possibly mate with she is going to move to the head of the line.
Since that is a more "basic" desire I think it is easier for him to see the incompatibility sooner and distance himself eventually.
Nail on head. I think you're absolutely right about this.0 -
While browsing that Evan Marc Katz website the other night, I came across an article he wrote around a lady's question, "of all your clients that found their love, how many of those women changed who they were and how many of them changed the kind of man they wanted."
His response was that his clients were mostly beautiful, strong, successful women who were essentially looking for a male version of themselves but, unfortunately, discovered that the male version of themselves wasn't typically wanting a woman like them. Rather than change who they were at their core being (tough to do) they found love by accepting a different type of man than they originally envisioned.
I tend to "feel it" for guys more on personality than looks, so attractiveness isn't hte #1 thing but I, personally, won't go out with someone whose profile makes them look just butt-ugly. After all, if we were to marry, one of our commitments to each other would be plenty of fun sex. This is not something I would be able to do for a man I couldn't stand to look at. And plus, I take good care of myself and I would feel resentful having someone get enjoyment out of my appearance and body if I couldn't get the same out of his. That said, this time around in the dating pool, I'm allowing for the possibility that the type of guy I've always liked may not be the one who is the best for me.
I guess I said all that to say that it's not too much to ask that your date be attractive, but make sure that in seeking someone "attractive" you're not discounting someone who might actually be everything you need.
Wow, I feel like this statement just smacked me upside the head. I literally had a crush on someone I knew very superficially and told him that he was the male version of myself. And I know he's not looking for someone like me, yet I can't seem to stop going to that same type. But then, who doesn't find a smart, good looking man attractive, but is that combination what I HAVE to have? I know you need to do something different to get a new result so I joined both Match and POF because sitting around complaining about being single isn't going to make me happier.
I'm not sure about you, OP, because I recognize that you're in a different league than myself, but I really am talking to guys that in some cases, I don't find as attractive or don't think are a great match. I've been surprised many times I've been able to engage in a way that actually left me enjoying the conversation and not worrying about whether it goes anywhere. I feel more confident, flirty, and it's translating to my actual IRL interactions so who knows what that might change for me.
It made me realize that I have to do as the statement above suggests and look for something different than I seem to have stuck in head as ideal. That's not to say I shouldn't at some point develop an attraction but let yourself try something new to see how it feels. Good Luck!0 -
I kind of wonder if these smart, good looking alpha males are looking for someone to feel superior to.
Sigh. Guess I could marry a mathematician. He'll feel superior all day long when he sees me counting on my fingers.0 -
His response was that his clients were mostly beautiful, strong, successful women who were essentially looking for a male version of themselves but, unfortunately, discovered that the male version of themselves wasn't typically wanting a woman like them. Rather than change who they were at their core being (tough to do) they found love by accepting a different type of man than they originally envisioned.
As hard as that is to hear and accept, I completely believe it.
A strong alpha male doesn't want an alpha female. He wants someone to take care of - he would most likely clash with an alpha female. And vice versa - meaning an alpha female needs more of a man that she can take care of.
I have a friend who is very domineering, in a good way. I would call her an alpha female. She dates a guy who is very quiet and shy, but they get along great. Another friend is very loud and he dates a quieter girl.0 -
Cute women are so much easier to deal than the hot prissy ones.
I wish this were true, but unfortunately it seems like in real life, men go for the really prissy ones. Makes me shake my head!0 -
His response was that his clients were mostly beautiful, strong, successful women who were essentially looking for a male version of themselves but, unfortunately, discovered that the male version of themselves wasn't typically wanting a woman like them. Rather than change who they were at their core being (tough to do) they found love by accepting a different type of man than they originally envisioned.
As hard as that is to hear and accept, I completely believe it.
A strong alpha male doesn't want an alpha female. He wants someone to take care of - he would most likely clash with an alpha female. And vice versa - meaning an alpha female needs more of a man that she can take care of.
I have a friend who is very domineering, in a good way. I would call her an alpha female. She dates a guy who is very quiet and shy, but they get along great. Another friend is very loud and he dates a quieter girl.
Well if alpha females need beta men, why are so many of us attracted to the alphas, then? Somethin ain't right here.0 -
I agree with you Mara! I am an alpha female no doubt yet can't even imagine dating anyone but an alpha male so to speak. I'm tough, strong, and decisive enough all day at work... I don't want to run a man's life like too many beta males seem to want. I respect a take charge man, and since I'm pretty darn good with decision making, it would take a man I respect in order for me to scale it back and trust someone else to make/ share decisions. Plus what girl doesn't want to at some level feel taken care of. Honestly, maybe this is part of letting go of the need to control and decide everything, but I'd give about anything to meet a man who wanted to take care of me and I'd let him BUT also recognizes and appreciates that it's a choice because he doesn't HAVE to!!! Ah to dream...0
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His response was that his clients were mostly beautiful, strong, successful women who were essentially looking for a male version of themselves but, unfortunately, discovered that the male version of themselves wasn't typically wanting a woman like them. Rather than change who they were at their core being (tough to do) they found love by accepting a different type of man than they originally envisioned.
As hard as that is to hear and accept, I completely believe it.
A strong alpha male doesn't want an alpha female. He wants someone to take care of - he would most likely clash with an alpha female. And vice versa - meaning an alpha female needs more of a man that she can take care of.
I have a friend who is very domineering, in a good way. I would call her an alpha female. She dates a guy who is very quiet and shy, but they get along great. Another friend is very loud and he dates a quieter girl.
Well if alpha females need beta men, why are so many of us attracted to the alphas, then? Somethin ain't right here.
I would prefer to date someone who is quieter, less outgoing than me. It would just be too hectic and I couldnt handle it, she had a personality as me. I've typically dated the shy, type, not necessarily quiet but not loud mouths. So yeah thats working well so far :laugh: Maybe I should switch it up.0 -
I agree with you Mara! I am an alpha female no doubt yet can't even imagine dating anyone but an alpha male so to speak. I'm tough, strong, and decisive enough all day at work... I don't want to run a man's life like too many beta males seem to want. I respect a take charge man, and since I'm pretty darn good with decision making, it would take a man I respect in order for me to scale it back and trust someone else to make/ share decisions. Plus what girl doesn't want to at some level feel taken care of. Honestly, maybe this is part of letting go of the need to control and decide everything, but I'd give about anything to meet a man who wanted to take care of me and I'd let him BUT also recognizes and appreciates that it's a choice because he doesn't HAVE to!!! Ah to dream...
I'm kind of conflicted on some of this. I'm not comfortable with the idea of a guy taking care of me, even though if I got in a desperate enough situation, I'd let him. I'm not stupid, just stubborn.
Problem is, when I think of a beta male, I think of someone who lets me lead in everything, and I prefer an equal partnership and an equal say in the decision-making, more like two people who play off each others strengths.
I also think of someone who tends to be a little too sensitive and will let himself be walked all over, and I'm the kind of person who might thoughtlessly do some walking, then realize it and feel horribly guilty about it later. I hate feeling guilty.
Edit: Boundaries, that's the catchy psych word I'm thinking of. Beta guys don't set those very well.0 -
His response was that his clients were mostly beautiful, strong, successful women who were essentially looking for a male version of themselves but, unfortunately, discovered that the male version of themselves wasn't typically wanting a woman like them. Rather than change who they were at their core being (tough to do) they found love by accepting a different type of man than they originally envisioned.
As hard as that is to hear and accept, I completely believe it.
A strong alpha male doesn't want an alpha female. He wants someone to take care of - he would most likely clash with an alpha female. And vice versa - meaning an alpha female needs more of a man that she can take care of.
I have a friend who is very domineering, in a good way. I would call her an alpha female. She dates a guy who is very quiet and shy, but they get along great. Another friend is very loud and he dates a quieter girl.
Well if alpha females need beta men, why are so many of us attracted to the alphas, then? Somethin ain't right here.
I would prefer to date someone who is quieter, less outgoing than me. It would just be too hectic and I couldnt handle it, she had a personality as me. I've typically dated the shy, type, not necessarily quiet but not loud mouths. So yeah thats working well so far :laugh: Maybe I should switch it up.
According to that relationship guy, you'll practically have your pick of alpha females. No one else wants us.0 -
Life's not always going to be the way we want it to be and the man or woman that we are ideally looking for may come in a different package than what we are looking for! sometimes Ross' has the same dress that Macy's has for less and it's the same dress only in a different store!
I met a gentleman on POF and he is my standard for what I am looking for. unfortunately his has been transfered to MO and isn't ready to commit. we encourage each other to see other people, but we keep coming back to each other for support and we are attracted to each other.
It's hard, wanting to be married and not... being... :P life goes on and you have to make your life complete with you as your focus. If you aren't complete with just you, then your relationship with others will be unbalanced.
If you really want to be married, work on being the best you there is and he/she will find you (notice how wonderful you are!)0 -
His response was that his clients were mostly beautiful, strong, successful women who were essentially looking for a male version of themselves but, unfortunately, discovered that the male version of themselves wasn't typically wanting a woman like them. Rather than change who they were at their core being (tough to do) they found love by accepting a different type of man than they originally envisioned.
As hard as that is to hear and accept, I completely believe it.
A strong alpha male doesn't want an alpha female. He wants someone to take care of - he would most likely clash with an alpha female. And vice versa - meaning an alpha female needs more of a man that she can take care of.
I have a friend who is very domineering, in a good way. I would call her an alpha female. She dates a guy who is very quiet and shy, but they get along great. Another friend is very loud and he dates a quieter girl.
Well if alpha females need beta men, why are so many of us attracted to the alphas, then? Somethin ain't right here.
I would prefer to date someone who is quieter, less outgoing than me. It would just be too hectic and I couldnt handle it, she had a personality as me. I've typically dated the shy, type, not necessarily quiet but not loud mouths. So yeah thats working well so far :laugh: Maybe I should switch it up.
According to that relationship guy, you'll practically have your pick of alpha females. No one else wants us.
Sweeeet! But whos the relationship guy? Alpha females though.... Hmmmmmm0 -
His response was that his clients were mostly beautiful, strong, successful women who were essentially looking for a male version of themselves but, unfortunately, discovered that the male version of themselves wasn't typically wanting a woman like them. Rather than change who they were at their core being (tough to do) they found love by accepting a different type of man than they originally envisioned.
As hard as that is to hear and accept, I completely believe it.
A strong alpha male doesn't want an alpha female. He wants someone to take care of - he would most likely clash with an alpha female. And vice versa - meaning an alpha female needs more of a man that she can take care of.
I have a friend who is very domineering, in a good way. I would call her an alpha female. She dates a guy who is very quiet and shy, but they get along great. Another friend is very loud and he dates a quieter girl.
Well if alpha females need beta men, why are so many of us attracted to the alphas, then? Somethin ain't right here.
I would prefer to date someone who is quieter, less outgoing than me. It would just be too hectic and I couldnt handle it, she had a personality as me. I've typically dated the shy, type, not necessarily quiet but not loud mouths. So yeah thats working well so far :laugh: Maybe I should switch it up.
According to that relationship guy, you'll practically have your pick of alpha females. No one else wants us.
Sweeeet! But whos the relationship guy? Alpha females though.... Hmmmmmm
The guy who said alpha men don't want alpha women is the one I was referring to. Now go find yourself a doctor or a lawyer with some model good looks, they're all alone and all they're asking for is a good looking, successful man they can't use for a doormat!0 -
Good night, all, I'm going to go curl up in a depressed little ball. If beautiful and successful alpha females are having to settle because the men they want don't want them, I don't stand a chance in hell of finding someone I want to be with.
Plus I must be really tired, I can't even spell anymore.0 -
The ladies were basically looking for men like them who were sharp in the boardroom, financially secure (more so than her), top notch looks... I remember he kept using the phrase, "the male equivalent of themselves." He said that those alpha top-tier men weren't usually looking to date a female version of themselves basically looking for a woman to provide in a relationship what this man can't already get from other men he associates with. If a woman insists on bringing male energy to a relationship (being tactless, being aggressive, being in charge) then she needs to seek out a man who wants a partner with these traits.
I actually think it makes a lot of sense. Though, since I can't stand passive, wishy-washy men I haven't yet resolved what Katz's advice might mean for my life.
Without sounding arrogant, I would say I'm an alpha male, fortunate to have a successful career, etc. I regularly interact with senior level people, in business and in government. And I am definitely attracted to very strong women who can hold their own with me. I don't view this as "male energy" at all. Although it has its limits.
Grant you, I'm not looking to date an extreme workaholic, or someone who can't relate to anything outside of work (which is much more an issue with American women than European women, from my experience). Also, I am the typical male in the sense I do like to be spoiled at home. Men can be like children at times, and I suppose I'm guilty. ;-)
But when I hear a woman has advanced degrees, manages 200 people, speaks four languages, or can be quite opinionated, etc., it's a huge turn on. That doesn't mean she can't be incredibly feminine, as well. There's a time to argue politics or debate where the Euro is going. And then there's a time to stop talking so much, for her to put on something incredibly sexy, open a bottle of wine, etc., etc.
I have no fear that she will run all over me - physically, intellectually - when we're together. None. She can try (I hope she does), but it ain't gonna happen.
--P0 -
A strong alpha male doesn't want an alpha female. He wants someone to take care of - he would most likely clash with an alpha female. And vice versa - meaning an alpha female needs more of a man that she can take care of.
Again, I disagree. A true alpha male is not at all worried about being dominated by his successful wife. If he is, I question his alpha maleness... ;-) He needs to relinquish that title. Besides, clashing can be fun. I like to clash... ;-)
I hang with a lot of alpha males, believe me, and they typically have wives who are successful, intelligent, etc. I'm not sure I'm following your logic here. Why would we want to have to take care of the woman at home, outside of standard male responsibilities? Because she can't take care of herself? Because we don't have anything better to do than solve her problems?
I want to chill at home, not stress because my wife is incompetent (don't get me started on my marriage). I'm happy to listen and discuss, help if necessary (just tell me what to do) but she needs to have things under control *at home*. I don't want to spend any intellectual capital figuring out what color to paint the kitchen, where to go on vacation, what car to buy. I just don't care. Take control, please! No time to clean because we're both busy? OK, get a maid. Need more time for the two of us? OK, find a nanny. We don't go out to the theater, anymore? Buy the tickets, let me know a week in advance, and I'm there. I'm not noticing you enough (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)? OK, get something new from Victoria's Secret, put a bottle of champagne on ice, get the kids out of the house for the evening, etc., etc. It's so easy, ladies! Men are so easy to make happy!
I just don't see what's so hard about being incredibly driven at work, but uber feminine at home. I don't know, maybe it is too much to ask? I'm divorced and single, so I probably have no idea what I'm talking about. Clearly I'm doing something wrong... :-)
Very interesting topic, but I just got called off my vacation for the next 24 hours. :-( So I'll have to respond further tomorrow...
--P
Edited for spelling0 -
All this talk of alpha this and beta this assumes you're one or the other. I fact, we all sit on a continuum and can (and often enjoy) experiencing things from other points on the continuum. Take for example the successful man that wants to be dominated. He's certainly alpha dog at work, but enjoys giving up that role in the bedroom.
My organizational behavior class in college covered some of this (I never really understood why we talked about sex all the time, but whatever). Women tend to date level or up on their economic scale. Men tend to date level or down on theirs. Since economic scale tends to be driven by alpha behavior, IQ and EQ. You can expect that a strong alpha, high IQ/EQ woman is going to struggle to find a man. In fact, I'd say such a man probably isn't on a dating site.
Instead of changing your search criteria, consider looking elsewhere. In Austin/Round Rock, the Cool River restaurant and bar was the place for women to pick up alpha males. But in your area, it might be a certain church, a country club, or some other social group. You can't fish for marlin in a pond.0 -
So, if you're not alpha or beta, what are you?? :laugh:
Which is the place where most of us lay :bigsmile:
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I was too lazy to post this, but more than this: you're only alpha (or beta) in relation with a specific group of people. You've got one "status" per group, depending on the group. There is no "absolute alpha male" (or female).All this talk of alpha this and beta this assumes you're one or the other. I fact, we all sit on a continuum and can (and often enjoy) experiencing things from other points on the continuum. Take for example the successful man that wants to be dominated. He's certainly alpha dog at work, but enjoys giving up that role in the bedroom.
You can be alpha at work but Zeta in your local football team because you suck at it.
This, for me. Finding a woman that can stand on her feet - as I (try to) do, and I can be there for her when necessary, and she can be there for me too when necessary.I prefer an equal partnership and an equal say in the decision-making, more like two people who play off each others strengths.0 -
I find that my problem doesn't have to do with domineering/submissive as much as it has to do with balance/lifestyle. I grew up in a blue collar area and have a lot of blue collar tendnecies. We were lower income and I learned to not spend frivolously at a very young age. Since childhood, I have a lot of education and work in a professional setting. I enjoy some of the more cultured aspects of life like theater, historical museums, etc. I was also a jock and have athletic tendencies. I can't seem to find the women who have a balance of being active, enjoying plays, tail gating at a football game, or going for a run. The ones who seem to like the plays, travel, etc. tend to burn through money and dislike "hanging out with the commoner." The gals I meet who like the biking and sporting events don't usually have the money to travel and view plays amd museums as snooty high-brow events.0
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I find that my problem doesn't have to do with domineering/submissive as much as it has to do with balance/lifestyle. I grew up in a blue collar area and have a lot of blue collar tendnecies. We were lower income and I learned to not spend frivolously at a very young age. Since childhood, I have a lot of education and work in a professional setting. I enjoy some of the more cultured aspects of life like theater, historical museums, etc. I was also a jock and have athletic tendencies. I can't seem to find the women who have a balance of being active, enjoying plays, tail gating at a football game, or going for a run. The ones who seem to like the plays, travel, etc. tend to burn through money and dislike "hanging out with the commoner." The gals I meet who like the biking and sporting events don't usually have the money to travel and view plays amd museums as snooty high-brow events.
Your looking in the wrong places then since myself and most of my firends would do both the sports events and going to plays. Some of the ones on my softball team on Sunday played softball in the morning and went to see Beauty and the Beast the musical later that night. Most people in my circles do the more expensive things sparingly as treats not as an every week thing.0 -
People want looks, intelligence, and personality. The whole package but in the real world, most people are not going to have it all so they choose. Im too drunk to write more.
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Yeah i'm on 3 dating sites myself and starting to wonder why people don't respond. It seems like some are on there just to see how many people look at them.
If you don't miind me saying, you look attractive to me!
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I am in no way Alpha. I'm am very shy and reserved. So I tend to like someone more outgoing than me. I'm not looking for the Doctor or lawyer, a farmer would be just fine.
I'm not materialistic, I don't do spa days. I don't need a coach purse. I'm very simple and low key.0 -
Dating is too much work.0
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Dating is too much work.
^^^ We have a winner! End of thread.0 -
I agree! I just need a FWB and move on with my life.0
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I can't seem to find the women who have a balance of being active, enjoying plays, tail gating at a football game, or going for a run. The ones who seem to like the plays, travel, etc. tend to burn through money and dislike "hanging out with the commoner." The gals I meet who like the biking and sporting events don't usually have the money to travel and view plays amd museums as snooty high-brow events.
Lol! I tend to have the flip-side of this problem! I was reared blue-collar, and actually prefer a man who works with his hands doing "manly" stuff (mechanic, oilfield) but when I can actually find one who isn't scared off by my degrees, he has no interest in occasionally enjoying thing "finer things" or resents that we would have to dip into my paycheck to afford them.0 -
The gals I meet who like the biking and sporting events don't usually have the money to travel and view plays amd museums as snooty high-brow events.
Your looking in the wrong places then since myself and most of my firends would do both the sports events and going to plays.
Maybe I need to move where you are, then! Most of my girlfriends fall into certain categories. "This group" I go on outdoor adventures with. That group I go out to nice restaurants with. This group I do artsy things with. etc. Here in Louisiana, my social circle is the largest it's ever been but I only have 1 friend that actually has accompanied me on ever type of adventure. I chalk it up to her being awesome and haven't really expected to find that kind of fun personality in anyone else.
By the way guys, she's beautiful and single, younger than me... and definitely alpha!0 -
Those kinds of girls are few and far between. I'm one of them and have to keep those parts of my life seperate because the friends I have to do one aren't interested in doing the other. I grew up blue collar and have a white collar job, so I have friends in both groups. There's no way the friends I have over to drink and play cards are gonna be the same that I go to an art gallery with. Oh well. C'est la vie.I find that my problem doesn't have to do with domineering/submissive as much as it has to do with balance/lifestyle. I grew up in a blue collar area and have a lot of blue collar tendnecies. We were lower income and I learned to not spend frivolously at a very young age. Since childhood, I have a lot of education and work in a professional setting. I enjoy some of the more cultured aspects of life like theater, historical museums, etc. I was also a jock and have athletic tendencies. I can't seem to find the women who have a balance of being active, enjoying plays, tail gating at a football game, or going for a run. The ones who seem to like the plays, travel, etc. tend to burn through money and dislike "hanging out with the commoner." The gals I meet who like the biking and sporting events don't usually have the money to travel and view plays amd museums as snooty high-brow events.0
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