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Boy Scouts reaffirm ban on gays
TheRoadDog
Posts: 11,788 Member
What do you think?
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Replies
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While I don't have enough information/knowledge on this to comment on specifics, it does seem to me that the apparently inherent assumption that gay men are a)predators and b)paedophilic is highly prejudiced, outdated and discriminatory. It's rather a shame that homosexual Boy Scouts (and I'm sure they exist!), will also be denied positive role models with whom they may identify within the organisation.0
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Private organizations can do what they want. If you want to accept taxpayer money, and be tax exempt, you shouldn't be allowed.0
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What do you think?
There's a reason why I've never let my kids be involved with the Boy Scouts/Girl Scouts. Too close of a tie to the Catholic church and their beliefs.0 -
They may be allowed to make whatever rules they want but I can speak out against them. I don't have boys so I wouldn't have my children involved with them anyhow. I do have friends with boys who've already stated they will not let their kids be a part of a group that is so openly bigoted and discriminatory.0
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I have no idea what the law says on this. In some instances it's not as a simple as private organizations can do what they want; I just don't know if this qualifies or not. Usually exceptions to the autonomy of private organizations center around labor laws, but I assume most of people who would be affected by their ban are volunteers.
I don't support them in any way, and I try to call them out if I see them making use of public resources without paying for them--meeting spaces and the like.
I've met my fair share of disheartened gay eagle scouts who felt betrayed by the BSA.0 -
Me for example!
The Supreme Court has affirmed the BSA's right as a private organization to discriminate against boys who don't meet their expectations. I think it's a stupid thing to do, but if they want to entrench themselves in irrelevancy, they are free to do so. But as long as they discriminate, they should get zero support from local government or public schools. No free rent for meeting places or camping facilities, no recruitment events in schools, no police-sponsored explorer groups.0 -
Hang on a second...this is about the boys as well? I assumed it was about the volunteer helpers/scout masters etc...0
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Hang on a second...this is about the boys as well? I assumed it was about the volunteer helpers/scout masters etc...
If the question is have boy scouts themselves been kicked for being gay, the answer is yes.0 -
I honestly cannot wrap around my head why there is still so much intolerance to gay people. I just don't get it. I love what the boys scouts teach as far as skills but things like this make me not want to let my son participate.
This article came up last week and the yahoo comments made me sick. I tried fighting the ignorant posters but was bombarded by the driscriminatory posters relentlessly.
http://news.yahoo.com/couples-wedding-photo-turned-anti-gay-political-smear-183726633.html0 -
Hang on a second...this is about the boys as well? I assumed it was about the volunteer helpers/scout masters etc...
If the question is have boy scouts themselves been kicked for being gay, the answer is yes.
It is true.
There are two aspects to this, though. First...the right of a private group to decide who may or may not join their group, and Second. Discrimination based on sexual preference.
I have to support the rights of the private group, although I don't agree with it.0 -
I think they have the right to refuse whomever they want, since they're a private organization that does not rely on public funds, but I also think it's a shame that so many in our society are still so bigoted. If they banned someone over race, very few people would buy their cookies, much less put their kids in scouts. I think it's time to take the same view of bigotry toward homosexuals.0
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Hang on a second...this is about the boys as well? I assumed it was about the volunteer helpers/scout masters etc...
If the question is have boy scouts themselves been kicked for being gay, the answer is yes.
That is upsetting. What a message of intolerance and bigotry to be sending to the young men and boys of the community.0 -
Hang on a second...this is about the boys as well? I assumed it was about the volunteer helpers/scout masters etc...
If the question is have boy scouts themselves been kicked [out] for being gay, the answer is yes.
Although it's less of an issue for boys since they usually are not aware of their sexual orientation when they join the Boy Scouts, the policy applies to boys as well as adult leaders.In 2004, the BSA adopted a new policy statement, including the following as a "Youth Leadership" policy:
"Boy Scouts of America believes that homosexual conduct is inconsistent with the obligations in the Scout Oath and Scout Law to be morally straight and clean in thought, word, and deed. The conduct of youth members must be in compliance with the Scout Oath and Law, and membership in Boy Scouts of America is contingent upon the willingness to accept Scouting’s values and beliefs. Most boys join Scouting when they are 10 or 11 years old. As they continue in the program, all Scouts are expected to take leadership positions. In the unlikely event that an older boy were to hold himself out as homosexual, he would not be able to continue in a youth leadership position."[13]
BSALegal.org published these policies until February 2010, when it was removed from their website.
. . . .
On June 7, 2012, a BSA press release stated:
"The BSA policy is: 'While the BSA does not proactively inquire about the sexual orientation of employees, volunteers, or members, we do not grant membership to individuals who are open or avowed homosexuals or who engage in behavior that would become a distraction to the mission of the BSA.'"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controversies#Position_on_homosexuality
Note: "members."
I have no idea whether they attempt to enforce a policy of not employing gay men or lesbians in states where employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation is illegal.0 -
I have to support the rights of the private group, although I don't agree with it.
But are you still a private group when you receive tax payer funds? I would argue no.0 -
I honestly cannot wrap around my head why there is still so much intolerance to gay people. I just don't get it. I love what the boys scouts teach as far as skills but things like this make me not want to let my son participate.
This article came up last week and the yahoo comments made me sick. I tried fighting the ignorant posters but was bombarded by the driscriminatory posters relentlessly.
http://news.yahoo.com/couples-wedding-photo-turned-anti-gay-political-smear-183726633.html
On Yahoo, it's a losing battle....0 -
I have to support the rights of the private group, although I don't agree with it.
But are you still a private group when you receive tax payer funds? I would argue no.
I wasn't aware they received any public money. If they do, then we have a different issue. Not only should no one buy their cookies or put their kids in scouts, they should legally be obligated not to be bigots.0 -
I don't know how I feel about this... on one hand, yes, they are a private organization... but on another, they are a group that has been heavily identified as a community and teaching about service within a community... Certianly, one could create a new group that functions similar to BSA but allows gays/lesbians/transgenders or girls/boys.... If people don't like what they stand for, then don't join them and they will eventually become so irrelavent that they will cease to exist... or at least not to the capacity....
In general, I do like the BSA/GSA... I may not care for their stances on social issues... But the core of what they are about is what I support... I wish we could get away from all this and get back to teaching kids how to be of service to thier communities again... regardless of who they are or where they come from.0 -
I won't spend another dime buying their popcorn to support them.
There was a south park episode I really enjoyed.
They fired the openly gay scout master who was excellent , the kids loved him, and hired this ex military guy who was tough and manly
he turned out to be a pedophile.0 -
I have to support the rights of the private group, although I don't agree with it.
But are you still a private group when you receive tax payer funds? I would argue no.
I wasn't aware they received any public money. If they do, then we have a different issue. Not only should no one buy their cookies or put their kids in scouts, they should legally be obligated not to be bigots.
Girl Scouts are different, they don't have any anti-gay agenda. (And they have the delicious cookies). No gripes with Girl Scouts.0 -
That are a private "Club", and they don't specifically "Rely on public funds",,, but they get a lot of government support in other ways. For example, if I want to rent the Township Hall to hold a meeting, I'm paying $50 an hour plus a janitor fee. But BSA Troop 2xx meets there every week for free. Little stuff like that.I think they have the right to refuse whomever they want, since they're a private organization that does not rely on public funds, but I also think it's a shame that so many in our society are still so bigoted. If they banned someone over race, very few people would buy their cookies, much less put their kids in scouts. I think it's time to take the same view of bigotry toward homosexuals.
I think that if they want to discriminate and practice intolerance they can do that - much like each of us is free to pull our own teeth out with pliers - but we certainly should not be providing any public support. If a parochial school can make sure their health insurance dollars don't pay for some atheist lunch lady's BC pills, I sure as hell oughta be able to make sure that my county taxes don't go to support this.0 -
That are a private "Club", and they don't specifically "Rely on public funds",,, but they get a lot of government support in other ways. For example, if I want to rent the Township Hall to hold a meeting, I'm paying $50 an hour plus a janitor fee. But BSA Troop 2xx meets there every week for free. Little stuff like that.I think they have the right to refuse whomever they want, since they're a private organization that does not rely on public funds, but I also think it's a shame that so many in our society are still so bigoted. If they banned someone over race, very few people would buy their cookies, much less put their kids in scouts. I think it's time to take the same view of bigotry toward homosexuals.
I think that if they want to discriminate and practice intolerance they can do that - much like each of us is free to pull our own teeth out with pliers - but we certainly should not be providing any public support. If a parochial school can make sure their health insurance dollars don't pay for some atheist lunch lady's BC pills, I sure as hell oughta be able to make sure that my county taxes don't go to support this.
Nope. No. They should get no public help at all, any more than the Klan should get public freebies. I'm not saying Boy Scouts=Klan, but bigotry is bigotry and should not be tolerated in our society. To some extent people must be free to have their own views on these things, and to associate with like minded individuals, this is part of our liberty, but they certainly don't deserve any handouts while doing so.0 -
Me for example!
The Supreme Court has affirmed the BSA's right as a private organization to discriminate against boys who don't meet their expectations. I think it's a stupid thing to do, but if they want to entrench themselves in irrelevancy, they are free to do so. But as long as they discriminate, they should get zero support from local government or public schools. No free rent for meeting places or camping facilities, no recruitment events in schools, no police-sponsored explorer groups.
Bingo. I agree as a private org they can do what they want -- and I have the right to refuse to support them for whatever reason I want.
So far, so good.
However, too often the BSA wants to have it both ways--they want the "private" right to discriminate and be bigots, but they want "public" support in the ways you describe above.
While they are not necessarily morally equivalent, from a "public/private" perspective, I don't see any difference between the BSA and the KKK. So whenever they ask for something out of the public domain, just imagine it's the KKK doing the asking, and you should have clear moral guidance.0 -
I don't know how I feel about this... on one hand, yes, they are a private organization... but on another, they are a group that has been heavily identified as a community and teaching about service within a community... Certianly, one could create a new group that functions similar to BSA but allows gays/lesbians/transgenders or girls/boys.... If people don't like what they stand for, then don't join them and they will eventually become so irrelavent that they will cease to exist... or at least not to the capacity....
In general, I do like the BSA/GSA... I may not care for their stances on social issues... But the core of what they are about is what I support... I wish we could get away from all this and get back to teaching kids how to be of service to thier communities again... regardless of who they are or where they come from.
I understand your position, and it's certainly a valid one for those who support the organization.
To me, however, when you rely on prejudice and ignorance to discriminate against other members of society, then you are no longer a "service" organization, regardless of how many old ladies you help across the street. You now exist primarily to promote an ideological agenda.0 -
Hang on a second...this is about the boys as well? I assumed it was about the volunteer helpers/scout masters etc...
If the question is have boy scouts themselves been kicked for being gay, the answer is yes.
I believe the prohibition extends to professed atheists/agnositics as well.0 -
Of course the irony of all this is that many now believe that Baden-Powell himself was both gay and a pedophile. Guess he didn't want the competition.0
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Yup yup, my way or the highway. They completely disavowed my religion years ago:Hang on a second...this is about the boys as well? I assumed it was about the volunteer helpers/scout masters etc...
If the question is have boy scouts themselves been kicked for being gay, the answer is yes.
I believe the prohibition extends to professed atheists/agnositics as well.
""In recent years, the Unitarian Universalist Association, which prides itself on being open-minded, has been sharply critical of the Boy Scouts.
In response, the loyal, friendly and cheerful Boy Scouts effectively excommunicated the Unitarians this summer, declaring that the church could no longer sponsor the Boy Scout "Religion in Life" badge, and that Boy Scouts could no longer wear the Unitarian Universalist emblem on their uniforms.""
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-07-24/news/9807240265_1_boy-scouts-scout-law-homosexual-members-and-leaders0 -
It's really sad that an organization such as the BSOA that does so much good for young men is so intolerant.0
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**** the Boy Scouts. Sexuality was never a part of Boy Scouts before and there is nothing in their charter before until Homosexuals began feeling safe enough to come out. ANd these bigots are hiding behind god and religion, often quoting Leviticus from the old testament, a man whose rules were so harsh I am sure we would all be executed if he were still alive. **** them.0
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Well, I believe that private organizations should be able to make their own rules, so from that aspect, I have to agree. I don't at all think that it is a good idea, nor do I think it is a good idea for their organization as a whole. My boys weren't going to be in the scouts either way, and this affirms some of the many reasons why.0
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I love the USA. Freedom is a double edge sword. It grants something to someone, while at the same time legally denying someone something else. I like hearing that people are standing up for their beliefs. Regardless of what they are. If the organization is doing something you don't like, don't support it. I was a boy scout until I was 15 and thought I was too cool for it. Second Class was my rank. I learned lots of good skills and ethics. If my boys want to be scouts, they have my support. If you don't like the organization, don't join it.0
This discussion has been closed.